Above is the needs question. I will call him tomorrow to come over and talk about storing some stuff, organizing his w/r so I can get to things I need and giving him a key if he wants to work here. If not, there is no reason for him to have a key. Is that fair?

He has not hit me. He breaks important things in anger. He choked me last year during the 3,4,5 arguement because I wouldn't let him leave and I physically restrained him. Yes, my fault, but it was very scary. I have been afraid, very afraid. I hate this.

Melody, what are the damn happy pills? I am on wellbutrin, but not in yet, takes 3 weeks and Lorazapam which I took twice today sublinguilly because I was about to sob uncontrollably.

I still need to make it clear to him that he must call that is the only way I will be okay with it. is this okay, if not I shouldn't even bother. Based on the stress I went through today. OMG. Holding it together is so very hard. He was just here too long.

I think it would be nice if you handed him the key back and told him you are sorry for locking him out. Regardless of whether he will work there or not. Tell him he is welcome to work there, but you would really appreciate if he could let you know when he is coming? Would he mind that?

He may not work there now, but might decide to in the future. But handing the key over is a conciliatory gesture he needs to see. He needs to see CONCILATORY, not punishing. See?


Please don't put this to him the way you said it to me. Don't tell or demand, but ASK, respectfully. ALWAYS. ok? It sounds like you are talking down to him like a lawnboy. And maybe you wouldn't say it that way, but I have picked up a note of condescension in the way you relate to him.

Am I right?

I think some of your H's complaints, especially the being alone one, are manufactured grievances after the fact, don't you? You have to sort the bs from the real ones and do your best to meet them.

It does sound like he felt emotionally abandoned by you so that is something you will want to work hard to overcome. He needs to understand that you know and acknowledge that he was #2 or #3 in your life and you would change that if given a chance. In order to come back, he must believe that things will be different and you need to look for opportunities to demonstrate some real changes.

Above all, Lost, you must never ever dismiss his complaints about your marriage. Let him know that you take them seriously and are so sorry it was so bad for him. He needs to know that you respect what he says and respect him as a man.

Anti-depressants were what I meant and I couldn't think of what they were called. What is Lorazapam? And you have not started the Wellbutrin?

No I wouldn't put it that way. Yes, sometimes I can be condescending and I know that is a problem. 99% of the time I am not with him, but I understand what the 1% is too. I am and have been very careful. I am talking to you, not him.....

If he wants to work in the workroom here, then I will give him the key. Otherwise, no, why would he need it? I know you think I am being mean and so does he, but it really isn't about that. I cannot feel completely safe if he has a key. Not now. Not when he is so angry, controlled and missled. His rage is frightening.

I started the Wellbutrin 1 week ago and it takes 3 weeks. Lorazapam is an antianxiety. It is the quick sob stopper and uncontrollable anger stopper. That is the sublingual thing,,,,,faster absorbtion.

Lost, maybe handing him that key will alleviate some of his anger and rage. If you were going to give him the key anyway, you may as well get some good mileage out of it and just hand it over to him.

Locking him out made him feel more alienated that he already was, giving him the key and telling him you care about his feelings will go a long way in undoing that damage. What do you have to lose?

Heck, he may not even want it, but your gesture will undo the damage of you appearing to be mean and vindictive to him. You have to UNDO that damaging impression.

Now, if you really feel he is that unsafe then I would forget all this and just move to divorce. If he is that unsafe, why would you even consider taking him back? I would instead get a handgun and be prepared to defend yourself.

He is only unsafe when he is drinking excessively. He does this a lot. And he rages when he is drunk.

Yes, I love him. Yes, I care about his feelings. That is the whole reason I want him to go to counselling. I am truly concerned for him. I am also concerned for me and my mental health which is pretty bad right now. My feelings are not a concern for him.

The more cluttered he is in his apartment the less it will be nice for him and OW. Disorganization and clutter makes
some people irritable and not having one square inch of clear space is very frustrating. The thought of them having a nice place to play house makes me want to puke. My house has been a wreck for so long and that is and has been very frustrating. Getting it together is actually making me feel better.

I will offer the key and I will tell him if he wants to keep his workshop here and come and work he can. I do not think he will go for it. Then he just has a key to my house and I do not like that.

Here is part of the problem. One of the needs the OW meets is participation in his religion. She was a different religion, though similar, but has embraced his and they work on it together. I cannot share it with him at the level that she can. This is a huge problem for him.

Here is the other problem. I honestly believe that no matter what I do he will not give her up. He continues to grow closer to her. And like you said, as long as he is in an affair how will counselling help him?

******What are my time frames here? At some point if she is still around, which she will be, I need to move on. When do I do this? What is reasonable? I can't keep killing myself for no reason/no resolution. At that point he would have to take his workshop so he could work.

Healing myself cannot really take place when he is still here with her. He says horrible things and they hurt. Some are true though overblown. Some are not. They are still terribly hurtful. I just do not feel I have a whole lot to work with.

Lost, the point of giving him the key was not so he could get in his workshop, but as a good will gesture. If you don't feel safe with him, don't offer at all; just go get a handgun. And if you do not want to work on the marriage, I wouldn't bother with any of the things I suggested.

It sounds like you have convinced yourself that your case is somehow different and is hopeless. With that attitude, I assure you it is hopeless. I am not going to argue with you or debate with you to get you do something to save your marriage. It is your life and you are perfectly free to just move on and be done with it. You are not obligated to stay.

But, just know this, we have seen far worse cases than yours come back from the dead using these principles. Your situation has lots of opportunities and those of us who have been through this before can see them. But I am not going to twist your arm. You would be completely justified if you just ended it now and no one would blame you.

So, let me know if you want to work on this. Otherwise, I won't bother you.

I am sorry. I do want to work on this. I appreciate all of your help. I will follow your advice.

Well, I talked to him about keeping his workroom at the house twice and that it was open for him to do that. He said that it wouldn't work because when he is done working he wants to be able to kick back and relax or go to bed. He wants to be able to work in his workroom without any interuptions from anyone and he certainly doesn't want to have to drive across town to get to his workroom or to get back to his apartment. This is actually what I expected, but I did try. He will be packing it up and moving it Sunday and Monday.

I told him that I was so proud of the work that he was doing that it is so beautiful and I do not want to be left out of that. I want to see what he is working on. He told me I would. He truly is very talented.

I did not offer the key. I just couldn't. I know that is selfish and really that is what it is. I am sorry this makes him feel alienated and I recognize it is probably a mistake, but he has been so very cruel and I have a hard time dealing with that. I am not at a place within myself to let it roll off my back. I can keep it together and remain calm when he is standing there, but once he leaves I just fall apart. I just have to have some control over my home. It is the only thing that I can be in control of right now. This may change, but right now, I can't.

I sent him this email today. What do you think? Is it okay? He reads our horoscopes every day and he emailed me mine a couple of weeks ago. I just felt that I should address these today. What do you think?

************************************************************

Hi sweetheart,

**I know you read these everyday too, but I wanted to send them to you anyway.

Leo
July 22 - August 22
Matters regarding your heart are likely to get a bit sticky, dear Leo. Perhaps you feel as if someone is shutting themselves off from you and being extremely stubborn about it. Perhaps this person is playing the old "cold shoulder" trick, in which they are simply refusing to acknowledge you until you apologetically come crawling back. The problem is that your pride is strong, and your view on the matter is equally as stubborn, making it difficult for any resolution whatsoever.

***I want you to know I am not giving you the cold shoulder nor do I want you to come "crawling back". I am not trying to shut you out though I know you are feeling that way. You are hurting and I am so very sorry. I love you and miss you. I want us to find our way back to eachother and I know that will take time and a lot of work. I do not want our marriage to "go back to what it was" I want it to be better and stronger and I really believe we can do this. We are not bankrupt, we have so much that you cannot see because of the hurting. We just have to let eachother in and get some help. I am sorry. I know you do not want to hear this now. I know you are not ready. I am sorry. I just needed to tell you that I love you. I hope that is okay.

Cancer
June 21 - July 21
Love is a very real thing to you, and you are apt to take this aspect of your life extremely seriously - perhaps even too seriously, dear Cancer. This is one of those emotions that encapsulates your whole body, eventually taking over your brain and leaving no room for rational thoughts on the topic. The good news is that matters regarding love and romance should be coming to a stabilized point at this time - giving you the opportunity to face this area of your life from a grounded, rational perspective.

***Good luck today at work. I hope you and She-Oak <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> (ha ha, I know I have no idea how to spell her name) can get everything figured out. I am sure you can. If not all today due to time constraints, you will get it done soon youself. Please send me the link so I can check it out. I learned a long time ago that you can do anything you set your mind too. You are honestly the most versatile and talented person I know.

Have a good day,

************************************************************

Is it okay? Am I apologizing too much?.....Probably. I don't know.

We are going separately to a NY party tomorrow. He is taking the OW's best friend who is also his friend. She is a little freaky. She is an exhibitionist. Loves to shake it and them if you know what I mean. He has seen it and so have I thank you. I cannot help but wonder if he is taking her to make me jeolous and uncomfortable. It will be very uncomfortable. Do I say anything to her? She was my friend too kind of. She is probably pretty po'ed at me for how "horrible" I have been to WH and the outing of OW. I am not exactly sure how to handle the situation. Do I just be nice? I do not know. Help?

Who is this person? A co-worker?

I think you should go the party and hold your head high and look fabulous! Can you do that? How is it "horrible" to out the OW's affair? Isn't it horrible to HAVE an affair? Sheeesh, talk about some very misplaced blame! How silly!

p.s. I think you handled the talk with your H very well! At least you made the offer to allow him to have his workshop there. There were no lovebusters, right?

No lovebusters. I was very careful and will continue to be.

She-oak is a co-worker he has been working with on some webpages, but today is her last day. She is moving out of state. Kind of a suprise for his work and a really bad time for her to leave.

I can look beautiful and hold my head up. I will just be nice to OW's friend. If she says anything to me about OW, can I tell her like it is? I.e. 1. Not appropriate for OW to be spending the night at WH apartment. 2. If OW motives were pure (as I am sure friend will say) then she would have completely backed off and let WH and I try to work things out after I found him at her home lying about being at work.*** Can I say these things to her?

You can say whatevr you want to her. Say something like, perhaps OW should think twice about having affairs with married men. Folks should know what kind of person she really is.

Remember, you are not the bad guy here; you have done nothing wrong! HAving affairs with married men is WRONG, exposing sleazy affairs IS NOT.

Lets say I am wrong, hypothetically, and their affair is an EA with no PA. I believe they are having a PA also, but if it is just an EA, does that make it any less wrong than a PA?

See, for me, as betrayed as a PA makes me feel, I think the EA is worse. WH has completely shut me out emotionally since OW came along. Discussing our problems and trying to work out solutions before was hard and we failed miserably, but at least we tried to address things. Now, he just won't discuss it with me and everytime something good happened in his life, she was the one he ran to tell, not me. Same with the bad. And they have absolutely vilified me to themselves and I am sure some others.

The problem is that so many people do not see an EA as a problem because they haven't been there. These people think they are "just friends"???

But they are not "just friends" in reality. So if someone "sees" it that way, they have inaccurate perception that needs to be corrected with the facts. It is up to you to correct that perception.

I have no doubt that this is a PA, but even so, an emotional affair is very much the same as a physical affair, if not worse.

Yeah, I think EA is worse too. It is hard though when people do not recognize that EAs exist. Gee and what do you do with the WH that is lying to you about where he is? Oh yeah and that little thing about the OW staying overnight? Ummm yeah, there is a problem.

Well, for the last 2 days I have been cleaning like a crazy woman. I have organized and cleaned my office, removed the cobwebs, feathers, dander and cat hair off of my living room(25 foot vaulted ceiling)and office walls and scrubed the walls by the way. Cleaned the stairs and wiped down most of my baseboards, washed my windows and window sills and moved around some furniture. And am in the process of shreading years of accumlated paperwork.

So it was 1pm here today and I was scrubing one of my walls and WH calls and wants to drop by to pick up his nice shirts for tonight. I tried to get him to come later, I should have put my foot down, but I didn't. So here I am......flannel pj bottoms, sweat shirt, dirty and wreaking of bleach dirt in my hair and he will be here in 15 minutes.

Well, I did it. Took a shower, did my hair, got dressed, looked cute and even cleaned up some of my cleaning stuff in 20 minutes(he was later than he thought). I was very proud.

So anyway, he comes in and looks around in confusion...not a word, then realizes I moved the bookshelf into the office and some other things and says oh okay....He got his stuff. I chatted with him about breaking the shreader yesterday and then taking it apart and fixing it(I had parts left over, but it works...I accidentally threw them away..he thought that was pretty funny) and about the TV (last night I pushed the wrong button, didn't even realize it and only had sound on 2 channels...weird) Had to call customer service to figure out what I did. I was terrified it was dead. We laughed and he said he would see me tonight and left.

Why is he normal or relatively as long as I do not talk about us? It just seems weird. Honey, are you in there somewhere? I don't know. I think the cleaning is freaking him out......?

you did great! Attract, attract, attract! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />