****** to WS - I thought I would give you some advise - I am the BS and have been going thru my 1st year after D-Day. I have had a rough 3 yrs with the man I love. I have lost 75lbs., trying to give up smoking, been working on a better me, feel stronger now and less afraid. I do still have lots of problems with my H's A. He always was the great guy and was always there for me and I was always able to have long talks with him and used to get the support I needed until his OW came into the picture.

I guess I wanted to work on recovery more than he does. Here is what you should NOT do. I have asked him to tell me what she was like, what did they find attractive in each other, are you in love with her, how long did this go on, the usual questions your loved one will ask many times over. My H replies have always been " Nothing happeneed" we were just friends." He did say after much fuss one day or should I say agreed with me after a long talk - that he did deceive me. I believe more to shut me up than to talk about his A. I had given him the book HN/HN he did skim parts of it and then it was left in his work truck to gather dust. I brought it home and gave it to a friend after 9 months. He refuses to tell anything of his A, I suppose he wants to keep his secrets a fond memory. I do not know. He refuses to discuss anything further as I have been told in a rather stern voice that I should be OVER this by now and just to stop. He will not discuss anything further nor has he previously. When I have gone to him for support and advise or just to talk he clams up and may hug me. Most of the time he says "What can I say, do you want me to make things up - NOTHING happened. If you were just friends why did you keep this friendship hidden. I know the guys you work with but not anything about her. Why did you have a hidden e-mail account and keep it just for the 2 of you. Why if you were not in love with her did you send her hugs and kisses in every e-mail. You think that by not coming clean I will forget this and move on and give you myself 100% back and trust you completely? What about the second woman who was 25 yrs younger than me come into the picture and why won't you answer my questions -again I did nothing wrong. "If she thought I was interested it was all her fault. She must be weird." So here we have 2 women and it is all their faults. Hmmmm. He forgets I am not stupid. I know what was going on. I have my journals - I have the proof and you choice to ignore. These things do grow larger when swept under the rug.
MB is a great way to save your M. But it is work and honesty must be first and foremost. If you do not want to save your M just keep doing what my H has done. Deny all, do not talk about anything, down play your S feelings, tell them just to get over it. We do get over it and by doing so we learn to get over YOU. I will make it thru for a few more months then I will have my plan ready to get the [email]h@ll[/email] away from him. I want someone that is willing to step up to the plate and work with me to help me understand what went wrong and what you have done. I want the man who can be a man and be honest and upright. I thought my H was the man - boy, fool I am. Shame on me. BS do have a 6th sense when something is not right, something does not smell right. I know I can feel that something is being held back. It is not being held back to protect me, it is being held back to protect himself and his OW. She has replaced me in his need to protect and keep safe. What options do we have. I see none. I am tired now and do not want to work on this M anymore. I am plain worn out. I have been thru 3 yrs of ******. I do not want anymore. I will just say I am done. No more is needed.

The funny part is history does repeat itself. He did the same thing in his first M. He always blamed her and in some ways she was wrong in alot of things. However, I can see why she had an A. Maybe it was revenge or maybe it was because of his attitude and not stepping up to the plate. Being honest and working with her.

I feel sad for him if anthing. He is loosing a very good woman here. I feel he will be a very lonely man in the future. However if yu do not love your S tell them and cut the ties and do not drag them on it is cruel. If you can not go to MC or IC , if you can not read MB books, "Not just friends" and work with your S willingly then tell them. This is as painful as when the first D-Day hit. I ahve realized as of last night that I do not matter. I will make this X-Mas special and then it will be the last. I know what I have to do. I will set things up so both of us can live a good life without the other. He can live the single life he wants and I want no part of it. He will have his little house on the water and use it as his love nest. Yeah I am bitter. Yeah I am hurt, so who the ****** cares. I am a strong woman and have a career I will survive. I will take a few years off form R. I have alot of soul searching to do. My idea of growing old with the man I love it was a fairy tale. It is time for this woman to wake up, grow up and not let someone make a fool of me again. I have a career and will make it.

Take care good luck and work hard everyone. I have met some great people here and want to thank everyone here. My days have been long at times here on MB. I have learned alot. I have met wonderful people. Some have told me maybe I should 'have listened more closely that my WH was just not into R. You were right but I had to give it the old college try for myself. Heck I do not like dogs but maybe I will get one - can't be as much work as my H. I know I need something to love. Or maybe just a gold fish. Yeah a gold fish. They don't talk back.

Realtor,first and foremost,from the bottom of my heart,I am so sorry that this is where things end up for you.I too am exactly where you are now,and for several months now(this has been going on for 3 yrs for me)I have been trying to let go.I know its hard to watch the dream die,but because you were willing to open yourself up to people that you dont even know,you have touched at least one heart,mine.Just knowing that I am not the only one on this forum that cant seem to get back to pick up my marriage where my wife left it without ANYTHING from her...well,at least I know i'm not alone.Thankyou for your honesty.You asked "so who the **** cares"?Well,I know that i'm not the one you wish cared,but for what its worth,I do.
God Bless You.

thsnk you that was needed -you have made me cry. I feel sad today. H is working and this woman just does not cry anymore. So your kind words really hit home. It was like being hugged. Thanks so much. I am moving on to the Divorceed site for support.

Realtor,

There is so much I would like to say to you, but I cannot find the words. Your post touched me - you've tried so hard (I've tried to keep up with your story since I joined the board), and you KNOW that if you walk away now, you can say that you did everything you could.

It takes a strong woman to go through what you've been through and be better for it.

{{Realtor}}

Don't be ashamed to cry! FYI - whenever I cry my cats come and snuggle me. If you can't decide between the dog and the goldfish, remember that you could always get a cat!

I have a cat but she will have to stay with him. I would move someplace she would not be allowed. Olus she only knows this neighborhood. I would not make her change. I wonder if he would allow me visitation rights? I worry about her as she gets so depressed if we are away for a day and she will not eat. I am the one who buys her cat food, feeds her ect. He would take good care of her but would have to learn to feed her daily. Oh well that will be her problem. I actually feel better knowing what I have to do, I feel stronger.

Realtor - take the cat. She'll adapt and at least you know she'll be properly taken care of. Good luck over on the D board. I'm sure you'll get good advice. You're lucky you have a decent career so you know money won't be an issue as it is in so many broken marriages. Take care girl. TT

Thanks TT- but the cat will stay here -he is very good to her and she loves sleeping up his a$$ everynight. She loves being near the water in our yard. She is 9 rs old and we could never keep her in the house. She has a cat door here. She is a real creator of habit and believe me if she is hungry she will let him know fast, she bites.

Realtor - Sorry you have to leave your home and your kitty. My WH was like yours - never admitted or talked about anything. After 3 years, he has never told the truth or clued me in on any or the reasons.

The only good thing about it all it that any feeling at all for him has been removed from my heart. I don't think about him anymore, miss him or anything. He is out of my life.

You will get there too.

Boy, I'm gone for a few days and things fall apart. I am so sorry for the pain of deciding to end your marriage, Realtor. I have been following your story for awhile, and have been rooting for you constantly.

Just making the decision to move on should bring some comfort and peace of mind. The see-sawing back and forth, between hurt, hope and disappointment is too painful to go through for a long period of time.

Don't forget about us, after going over to the divorce message boards; come back and let us know how you are doing.

(((Realtor)))

Take care,

K.D.'s Heartbreak

After last night whenhe said in a mean way If you are not over it then maybe we should get D. I realized he was just not into healing. Just wants it all swept under the rug. So for my sanity I have decided I must do what I must do.

I talked with H's ex-SIL toady. Whenhe was M to his 1st W he also had a PA. I guess during and after his A he was very verbally abusive to his ex. Told her she was sexually unattractive to him and the things like he has said to me. So I guess this is his m.o. So I guess it is not over and is still an ongoing A. To bad for him as I understand it she will not leave her H. He is the one who is going to miss out on the best woman he has ever had. His exw did not handle things well and was very vengeufl. That is I believe his reason for wanting to stay in this M. He is afraid. I will not be a mean woman or vinditictive(sp)woman at all. I just want peace and to take my 1/2 of marital assets and half of his 1st pension. He can hve his payck, his SS, and his pension with this newer company. I am hoping that this will leave me as his dependent so I can stay on his insurance. If not oh well. I will have to do something else. I will be able to afford a home of my own- small but a home. Plus have money to invest. If I live cheaply I will make it. I am good at living cheap.

realtor,
Good luck. I completely understand. Did all that I could too. Now that he has moved out, I believe the contact with his OW has stepped up, but it's out of my face and I can get on with my life. I'm feeling so much better. I think you will too.

((( Realtor )))

My heart goes out to you. I know exactly how you feel. It just keeps chipping away at you, bit by bit. Sooner or later, it is gone.

I do know this -- You will be fine. You have grown alot and have so much to give someone. Yes, your h will be the big loser here.

And -- Congratulations on losing all that weight !! Now, I do not for one second recommend the infidelity diet. But it does seem to work every time. Surely there are much less painful ways to lose weight, but definetly not as guaranteed as this is. I bet you look terrific.

If you really want to quit smoking, have your doctor perscribe Nicotrol Inhaler. I have used it in the past and it worked quite well for me. I have also used Zyban which works real good too. I am a social smoker who quits and starts up again... a vicious circle. Some days I will smoke like a freight train, then I can go a long time without even touching one. Of course, the more upset I am - give me a cig.

Best of luck to you - You will do GREAT.

Sincerely, Carnation

Thanks guys for your support this is very hard for me. I know it will shock my H as he feels like everything is fine. So I could not get over his A without his help, instead I have gotten over him. Something just snapped last night I am not angry -hurt yeah, sad that it came to this. Wishing for my old life, but hey, new lives do happen.

Interested in hear thought about how he is doing the same thing to me that he did to his exW. It really hit me hard when I heard that it made me feel there is absolutely no help at all. I course she had revenge A's and that tore the rest of the M apart. But I can see why -when you are told such things. It is tempting.

Dear Realtor,

I'm glad you've finally come to a decision about this. I think you kept hanging on hoping he'd really hear you and care. I do not really know whether his A continues or whether it was strictly an EA, rather than ever getting to the point of PA. I don't think it really matters in the long run now.

I'm writing to you to tell you one thing. You are perfectly poised to follow the Marriage Builder Plan. Why not incorporate it into your current plan?

You are planning to have a nice holiday and then leave to pursue your own happier life. Sounds like the perfect time to start a TRUE, GREAT, HARD-WORKING KICK-[censored] PLAN A.

In order to do a great one, you are going to have to step up to the plate and prove you can do one, consistently, Full-Time. That means NO love-busters, no Affair-talk, no resentful comments, You be happily attractive and busy with your own nice life. Don't ask him where he's going or when he'll be back, don't act like you give a dang whether he comes home or not, you'll be happy to see him when and if he shows up.

The PLAN A pros are here and they can guide you through it, Start a Thread for it called Realtor's Plan A.

After Christmas when you've plan A'd yourself silly and are ready, GO DARK. Do a Perfect PLAN B. In your Plan B letter set your boundaries, starting with Marriage Counseling in which he comes clean with all the details about his relationship to OtherWoman, complete transparency and all the other things you'll need in order to heal.


There's a point to this.

He has never taken you seriously and he doesn't buy your threats. Cajoling and begging has not worked with him. He doesn't think you will leave him, and he doesn't know how to start telling the truth now after hiding for so long. He's built a GREAT WALL of CHINA between you by now.

A true Plan A/Plan B that is carefully thought out and DEPLOYED like MILITARY STRATEGIC MANEUVERS is your best chance to still have that dream of growing old together with him. It's not for the faint of heart.

He's so far gone in the lies he can't save himself. He hasn't got a clue how.

Will you be woman enough to save him from himself.? I know it's what you want. You can do it and win. But you've got to get serious.

love,
Swords

10Swords,

I am in a similar situation to realtor, in that my H has refused to answer my questions concerning his A. He will only admit to an EA, but I believe otherwise. He only admits to what I have been able to prove, and it is so frustrating, because I need the openness and honesty in order to heal.

I read your response to realtor about doing Plan A before she leaves, and then do Plan B. Your advice sparked my interest because of the similarities of my situation with realtors. What are you supposed to do if you are still together? Am I to do Plan A anyway? He is saying the A is over, and we are reading Love Busters together to work on our marriage. Yet, he still is saying he has told me everything. I don't have peace with it in my heart. He says he will go to his grave swearing he did not have a PA.

It hurts to feel that you don't have the whole story. It makes it difficult to continue the marriage. I am fighting to get off this emotional roller coaster and I want my marriage but I want it based on truth. It is extremely difficult to be betrayed, to have to forgive someone who has hurt you so deeply, and then endure the painful recovery, while your WS gets the easy way out and keeps secrets from you, but still wants the marriage. It doesn't seem fair at all. The BS carries much of the burden of the A, while the WS just seems to just get to go on, and tell as little or as much as they please. Nothing but selfishness undergirds every EA or PA, and I believe it is also selfishness undergirding their desire to not come clean. It certainly is not protecting or caring for the BS, they are only protecting and caring for themselves.

Even though my WS is reading Love Busters with me, there is a void that needs to be filled. I will feel cared for when my WS humbles himself to care about what's important to me and tell me everything about his A. To me, that's when real healing takes place, because I get released from obsessing about what happened and trying to uncover more facts. I get freed.

I want to know are there any techniques for getting the WS to release that information? I know I don't want to live like this indefinitely. Not knowing... it can keep you from healing, make you emotionally unstable. Realtor, I don't blame you for leaving. At some point, you have to do what is best for you.

Realtor, I understand what you are going through.
My prayers go out to you. Hold your head up. You didn't
do anything wrong. I also want to see how you are doing on the Divorce board and follow your progress. I believe you are going to get through this. You are stronger than you think you are.




D-Day 6-05 Ended 1-06
BS 49
Ws 46
Married 16 years
Together 24 years
7 children - 3 grown,
1 in college, 14, 13, and 12
"Still Hurting in Va."

Sounds like he isn't taking Chapter 6 too seriously.

Seriously, if he's unable to convince you that he's telling the truth, how about suggesting a lie detector test? At the very least, if it turns out that he IS telling the truth, perhaps that will put to rest the doubts that you're expressing here.

I want my husband to take a lie detector test but Dr. Harley is not supportive. I don't realy understand. I have done the research. They are not admissable in most courts. There is a chance of lying and seeming not to, and a chance of seeming to lie and not lying. But the statistics are way better than 50/50. I can't think of any other tools out there to actually get the truth.

Go back with me for a moment to the pool of Bethesda. Here is a place where sick people congregate because they believe that they can be healed by getting into the water whenever it is stirred. Jesus approaches a man obviously crippled. He has about him the paraphernalia common to cripples who begged for a living in those days--a mat to lay on, a collection plate for the alms of those who might take pity upon him, perhaps he had crutches if he was able to use them.

Jesus was speaking to him and had learned that he had been this way for 38 years. Add to this the fact that he was hanging out at a pool that was known for healing and we can begin to get some sense of how crazy it must have sounded for Jesus to ask, "Do you want to get well?’"

What kind of a question is that? Does a crippled man want to get well?

But maybe, just maybe, the question isn’t as shallow as it seems at first glance. Let’s just consider that for a moment. If he were to "get well" he would have to earn his way for the first time in 38 years--perhaps the first time ever. He would no longer have an excuse for what his life was. The responsibility would be his.

So maybe the question "Do you want to get well" wasn’t such a crazy question at all. Maybe it was a question that pierced to the very center of the man’s heart and exposed the motives that lay deep within.

And what about us? As Jesus looks at us crippled by problems, crippled by circumstance, crippled by sin, what does He say to us? Could it be that he asks us the same question he asked of the cripple at the pool " Do you want to get well?"

Do you want Jesus to heal the parts of your life where you’ve been damaged or is it easier to hold on to the hurt? Is it easier to let bitterness fester and to wallow in the hurt and betrayal, licking and liking our wounds.

All too often we hold on tightly to the things that paralyze us spiritually. Jesus can heal us of those things but when he does we will be left without excuse for our lives and the choices we make. We will no longer be able to cry "My life isn’t my fault, others are to blame"

So the question isn’t crazy at all and it echoes down the ages to each of us today, "Do you want to get well?"

To the one crippled by past hurts, Jesus asks, "Do you want to be healed?"

To the one chained by secret sin Jesus asks, "Do you want to be loosed?"

To the one battling addiction Jesus asks, "Do you want to overcome?"


To all of us who need His healing touch in any part of our life He asks "Do you want to get well?"

No pun intended. Look with me at verse seven: "Sir," the invalid replied, "I have no one to help me into the pool when the water is stirred. While I am trying to get in, someone else goes down ahead of me."

The man did not answer Jesus’ question at all, but offered an excuse for why he hadn’t been healed yet: "I’m all alone, there is no one to help me"

"Sir, I have no one to help me." It really is a tragic cry. But it’s still didn’t answer the question, "do you want to get well," and it still amounts to an excuse. To say "there’s no one to help me" means also, "I can’t help myself and God’s not doing anything for me either."

Jesus’ question echoes down through the ages to us today "Do you want to get well?" Today Jesus waits for your response. Will you continue to hold on to the things that hold you back? Will you offer the same old excuses? Or will you listen to the instruction of Jesus and reach for that which is beyond yourself. Will you "Get up and walk"?

realtor here lays your husband...

repeating
crippled
trapped in his own acts and thoughts....

never wanting to heal...always wanting to blame...

your husband does not want to be healed...
he wants to live disconnected from the truth of his actions....

Interested in hear thought about how he is doing the same thing to me that he did to his exW

it is his own self anger and frustration turned outwards on to easy targets....
his first wife
you..

the constant factor is him....

it is sad more than it is painful....

ask him realtor...
if he wants to be healed...
ask him if his plan is to forever find blame and fault for his actions with in others...

ask him...
and know he chooses...
he confines himself
he creates his own he%% on earth...
and you don't have to do any of that....


sorry for the blatant religious spin...but...
I love this passage and keep going back to it...

ARK^^

So I could not get over his A without his help, instead I have gotten over him.

heed these words all you WS......

they are powerful ones and appear twice in this post...

ARK^^

I got to that point just a few months ago. It was such a startling revelation.
WW woke up one morning and realized I was out of her life. I never stopped loving her, but I had lost enough respect that it no longer depressed me to think I wouldn't have her in my life anymore. I crossed a line in the sand and just stopped working on us. I has moved on!!
Enter into the picture a new friend. Single, charming, witty, supportive...everything that I needed to make me believe there could be a future not filled with emptiness. Totally platonic, no expectations on either side. WW noticed a huge change in me....we had common friends still....and she decided that I was worth fighting for now. (Funny thing Realtor....have you noticed in our profession that the best way to get some action on a property is if other buyers like it too!!) My new friend told me that she knew I'd never forgive myself if I didn't give WW this last chance so after a year in Plan B, seperate houses, new friends, etc. I'm back at the plate again.
I'm rambling a bit. I wanted to make it clear how close to the edge of no return I was. In my mind, I'd gone over the edge. I'd stopped thinking about WW. My friend who could have become my next love, wanted me to try to rekindle my lost love.
WW and I have had a couple of dates in the last month. Very promising. All the details are there for me...no holding back on her part at all.
Realtor....I don't think your H has hit bottom yet...he's not afraid of losing you....but I'm new at this so I don't know what I'm talking about!!