I don't know anything for definite but my WH told my very good friend that his relationship was over. As many of you have heard my tales of woe over the past 20 months, he has chronic kidney failure and should be starting dialysis any time soon. He just had an op to prepare him for this.

I live in Hong Kong and OW is a local lady who initially stalked me and pestered our family with middle of the night phonecalls. It was like Fatal Attraction. He was so 'under her spell' that nothing I could have said or done at that time would have penetrated his foggy brain. That has changed and I can see the magic has worn off.

I wondered what on earth she wanted with him. He doesn't have much money, has terrible health and is a really unsociable stay-at-home and watch the TV man. I'm guessing he changed during the A but I know the real him has probably emerged now that the excitement has worn off. I think she wanted a passport for her and her teenage son.

If she has dumped him, knowing that you would get back a very sick man, needing lots of driving to hospital, special dietary needs, just general hard work, would you take him back? The alternative would be that he lived in a small apartment with nobody to care for him and didn't really look after himself. He has literally self-destructed through all of this - his health was bad but manageable.

I can't even tell you I love him. The thought of sharing my bed really doesn't appeal to me but I do care about him. I've known him since I was 17.

In most recovery situations, you have to put the past behind you and look to the future. Well, it's not exactly bright and would I end up a bitter old nursing maid or would I feel I'd done the best I could in the worst of circumstances. I do not have MUG written on my forehead.

Is there anyone at all out there who has faced anything similar at all?

I have no idea - absolutely none. And I can only imagine what your dilemma must be doing to you emotionally.

It might depend on his reaction. Contrition, willingness to try to meet your needs, things like that.

I can tell you that, for years, my mother had to cook for my dad with high blood pressure and diabetes as well as my sister who had nephritis. That was hard but manageable - except when dad complained about nothing tasting good.

As far as once again opening your heart to him, I have no clue. I've never been there. My x never gave me a chance.

If it were me, I would not sacrifice my life for someone who was in no way committed to me and probably just coming back so he could have someone nurse him. He left the marriage by his own volition and I would allow him to live the life he chose.

If he did try to come back, I would strongly suspect that it would be so he could have a live in nurse maid, and not because he is committed to you. Better for him to hire a nurse to come clean out his bed pan than you be stuck doing it for years. You have sacrificed more than enough for him.

TT -

There is a lady on the EN board who has a thread called "terrible dilemna" who is asking about this same thing. However her husband was not unfaithful, just nasty.

If it was me, I would take him back, mainly because I'm stupid. You have children with him. Also you are still very young. I didn't marry my WH until I was 44.

But you will have to weigh everything. You need to decide if you would be happy doing it.

I had a friend in my women's Bible study that took her husband back when he got sick. He had left her for another woman, and then got dumped when he was extremely ill. She was getting lots of psychological help. It was very hard on her.

Cinders - what happened with your sister's nephritis?

ML - You are giving me the advice I would give anyone else. By his own admission, he has "f**ked up". In leading his double life it was easier for him to pretend he didn't have a real family. He has acted so appallingly I can't believe he's the same man I married. It is so difficult to harden my heart to him though. There is more pity than love.

Believer - you big softee. I know you have a clue because of what happened to your first husband. I just see him wasting away and the girls losing their dad. He told my friend he wants "death". I still have this feeling that I need to save him but I think Christmas is doing strange things to my head!

Money might alter things. Could buy him a kidney. Perhaps if I could see the possibility of a real 'second chance' without all the complications, I'd have a clearer mind.

I'm still keeping my kidney warm. I should check and see if I'm too old to be a donor. My insurance DOES pay for my part of the transplant. Maybe we can get Lemonman to install it.

Oh Believer, I had to laugh when I read this. You are so funny.

TT, I often think this is the worst part of what all of you go through when a WS wants to come back after a long separation. I would not want this choice because I would be like you, feeling sorry for him. But as Mel said you do not want to be married out of pity, nor do you want to become a bitter old woman.

If you can become friends with him, then be a friend. Some day down the road you may want him back as your husband, or you may just want to remain friends with him.

How are your girls doing?

I am probably in a minority here in that I get tired of turning the other check when I have a resonable expectation of it being hit again.
I wouldn't do it TT. And I wouldn't do it TT...One more time... Talk about setting yourself up for major bad times.
I would have a hard time sticking to my guns I think. It reminds me of the words to a song from 40 years ago...."You knew I was a snake before you brought me in"
See if there is some other way to help him if you must ...whether it be volunteering some time every day/week .....grocery shop for WH maybe.
Living with someone who doesn't love you is a sentence from H*ll. Haven't we all been there enough already?

Weaver - the girls are doing really well. They are deeply hurt by his actions and possibly more so by his neglect since we split. I think his way of coping with the guilt is to pretend we don't exist. He told me I would make his life easier if I went back to England. When he sees the girls, he gets a huge guilt attack and becomes almost morose. Not easy to be around. But all things considered, I'm not dealing with any major behavioural changes or foul behaviour.

Briian - In the back of my mind are the vows "for better or for worse, in sickness and in health" and I feel bad for wanting 'out'. This A has screwed with my mind so badly. I really can't believe I'm still here at MB even talking about the possibility of having him back. He really doesn't deserve it. I'm surprised at my own reaction to all of this. What on earth am I holding onto?

I seriously want OW to take him off my hands. I just need to know he will be taken care of cos I know he won't look after himself. And, I swear, if you knew the lovely young man I married, you'd be as gobsmacked as I am that he has changed into such a gremlin.

TT-

You are in a very hard place to be. I would really take my time figuringing it out.

After going through all of this, I really know how important family is. I think we all are changed that way. If your husband was a good man through most of your marriage, and good to you and your girls, then I would give him a chance.

Affairs just change people so much. For some, it is temporary. I think my WH is permanently changed. Plus our children are grown, so I'm not in the same place in life.

If he is not having contact with the OW and goes through withdrawal, he may become the man he used to be. In that case, it would be good for the family to be together. I don't know how you figure it out.

((tt)) Oh TT. What a dilemma. I have followed your story for a very long time. And I can't tell you what to do. It is so obvious to everyone including yourself that he is a very self-involved man who treated you appallingly. And he is quite used to having someone else “do” for him. Otherwise he would betaking care of himself, wouldn’t he?

The one thing that stands out here is that WS didn’t come to you. He told a “friend” and is assuming (I think) that the friend will have told you and then you will come “rescue him”. So that is a big flag to me. Imho. WS shows no contrition. And doesn’t sound like he is ready to make amends or to take responsibility for his choices.

But, I do think you are like me I think this is a battle with yourself to feel good about what you do with this. And you do have a long history and you do know what he was like before he was such a big WS!

I guess if I had the chance to even consider this I would look at this very clinically. That is I would start by making a list of questions and conditions that you need. Like NC, IC, what services are available to help you take care of him, what will you gain, what will you lose? Will it be worth it to you and your DDs if you decide to do this. I would definitely go see an IC that is familiar with taking care of critically ill patients and what the long term effects would be on you and your girls.

Only YOU can make that choice and only YOU can decide if it is worth it. But I would definitely raise the bar very, very high before I would put myself in such a terrible position for the remainder of a very sick WS’s life.

I think that I would do nothing until he came to you. Or as a bit of a compromise, tell the “friend” that you would “consider” taking him in if he met your conditions. Other than that, I will pray for you tt and know that you will make the decision that you can live wit. Prayers and blessing tt.

Guilt and self loathing can change anyone after an affair. I would imagine your w/s hates looking at himself in the mirror every day.

My dear friend's, mother and father stayed in a loveless marriage, both living in different bedrooms and leading seperate lives, until one day, all the pain and indifference added up to divorce.

Fast forward a couple of years.

Dear Friend's father had a terminal illness. Her mother, moved back in with ex and cared for him until he died. They remarried before his death, her caring for him brought back the love that had stagnated over the years.

Another example; my MIL and FIL. My FIL, was going through rough time, bankruptcy, feelings of failure over business and marriage failing, and moved to another state.

While visiting, he decided he couldn't abandon his wife and decided to return.

Over the next decade, he took care of his wife, who had developed dementia, and broke her femur, had hip and knee replacement. Etc. Etc.....

He cooked meals for her, did the dishes, laundry and cleaned the house.

He treated her like gold. The love they each had for each other grew over those years.

So yes, in some occurences, taking care of a spouse can turn love around. I think it all depends on the people involved.

I will be praying for you and your w/s, Tummy tuck.

Have you thought about, not living with him, but visiting him dailey to help out.

I am betting, the little loving things you do will help to change his feelings for you, and possibly might lead to something more, if you want.

Sincerely,
K.D.'s Heartbreak

FAA - thanks for your prayers. You are so right in that I am battling myself. One day I think I should try and sort him out; the next I think I deserve a better deal. I've never had high expectations for myself. In fact, when he left he told me I had no ambition. That stung so badly because I was clever at school but had no real direction. I had good jobs and used to earn more money than him for years until we came to HK. But then I found a real sense of achievement in motherhood and was happy to give up work. Classic stay-at-home mum stuff.

Believer - my WH has become so selfish during his A that I don't like him much. But he wasn't always like that and was a wonderful dad when the girls were younger. This whole sordid A has been going on in total for almost 6 years - 2 that I've known. Before all that things were ok but he treated me so poorly when he was leading his double life. I gave him so much leeway(?) because I put all his moods, tiredness and grumpiness down to his ill-health.

KD - thanks for your reply. I have considered the friendship option because in that way, I can do as much or as little as I feel inclined. But it also keeps me tied to him emotionally and I don't know if that is healthy for me.

You all are so insightful and it is really helpful to bounce my feelings off you and gather your thoughts. Thank you so much. TT

::::::::In the back of my mind are the vows "for better or for worse, in sickness and in health" and I feel bad for wanting 'out'.

Hiya TT, I think the 'in sickness and in health' part only applies when the 'forsaken all others' part is obeyed. Plus the 'for better or for worse' part doesn't include the kind of 'worse' that hubby engaged in. There's an exclusion clause where infidelity exists.

I must say that I was particularly impressed with kdsheartbreaks post. It typify the contradiction of human behavior. That adversity brings out the very best in us whilst living quietly and peaceably seems to bring out the worst in us. (e.g. affairs) I have been wondering how to live with my lack of feelings for my H, and yet I know that if he became ill that I would nurse him with precision care and dedication. I cannot explain why I would do that. I think I am the rule rather than the exception. I have heard a number of stories along similar lines.

Fightingalone again said: "I think this is a battle with yourself to feel good about what you do with this."

I think it's inbuilt in humans to perform at their best during a crisis. But surely the one exception to this would be with infidelity. There's the dilemma. If yr WH had been a little less cold hearted towards you and especially to his daughters, your heart would be melting all over the place by now.

As I see it, H hasn't really expressed a desire to return to the fold yet? Is it possible that WH expects you to come fussing over him and remove any awkward swallowing of his pride to acquire your much needed help and support?

I think I would hold back for the moment and at least wait for some show of need from him so that you don't throw your pearls before swine. Being sick isn't enough from him, he has to get it - demonstrate in a number of ways that he is sorry and he is willing to seek your forgiveness. Don't make this too easy for him.

AN

Anyname - I'm in no way sure what's going on in his life and am not rushing to do anything about this. The biggest problem for my WH is that he can't show his feelings. He's always been a quiet man, never demonstrative. It would take an extraordinary change in character for him to implore me to take him back. I truly think he would find it too hard to do. He would add nothing positive to my life but we would be a 'family' again.

I asked him last Sunday at very late notice to look after his sick daughter but he couldn't do it. If I could see the father he once was emerge from all this mess, I'm sure it would start to soften my heart. His life, at the moment, is only about him.

Anyway Anyname, nice to hear from you. My friend arrives there on 1st Jan for good. She's a right laugh but I think you'd find her husband hard work. If you happen to bump into a very loud American lady, long blonde hair, quite short, big bum then that's her. Camberwell district I think.

::I asked him last Sunday at very late notice to look after his sick daughter but he couldn't do it.

:-((

Yr WH is so full of himself still yeah? Poor b*stard!

I will look out for the lard [censored] American!! hehehe! CAmbelwell is a bit upmarket for us though!! We be common folk!

AN

Hi TT
Nothing's changed. NOTHING.

WH is still wayward. He is still sick. He has still not recommitted to you and the girls.

If you want to nurse him, thats a decision between you and your charity, but he hasn;t changed ANYTHING that I can see he already knows what the rules are for coming home, right ?

I'd hate to reset the girls' expectation by having him home to nurse when he yerns OW and is still in her thrall.

I'd just stand by awaiting some recommitment from WH to be honest.

He said his affair was over a few months ago, and it rekindled very quickly indeed IIRC. This may be the same.

All blessings in whatever you choose anyway TT.

TT, you do have a difficult choice ahead.

Have you ever given your WH a Plan B letter? If so, you have given him the blueprint for coming back into your marriage. As he fulfilled any of those conditions? Has he recommited himself to your relationship?

It's okay to say "no" without feeling guilty. You've been at this for a long time.

TT, I'm with anyname in that the "for better or worse" was made null and void by breaking the promise to "love, honor, cherish, and forsake all others" part of the M vows. Why should you spend your precious life nursing this man who treated you and your children like sh**? So I don't come off as a total cold-hearted bi*** how about this for a solution? IMHO, at least at this point in time this man doesn't deserve to be called your H, even if he sincerely wants you back. Any chance you could muster just being his friend. Or look at him as a former H/friend that's having a hard time. With that view you could help him in a way befitting to that kind of a R, as apposed to as your H.

Does that make sense? This doesn't have to be all or nothing. You can feel for him and even attempt to support him. You can encourage your girls to have a R with him, and him with them. But you don't have to marry the man or be his nurse. You can help him find one though. Here's a hug you good hearted soul! OK, I'm going back to my grinch cave now. CV

Well, just when you are starting to feel good about a decision, let me throw this in.

As you know, my sons' father died a lonely death. He was living by himself, trying to take care of himself. The other women were long gone.

I waited 5 years for him to turn his life around and then remarried. The last time I talked to him, he said he loved me and would wait forever for me.

He died 2 months later, by himself, and no one found him for 3 days. It haunts me to this day. It bothers me that he was alone, even though it was the result of HIS choices. Whenever I think about it, I feel bad. It was very hard on my boys also.

So while you need to take good care of you, please treat him as well as you can. Then you will have nothing to regret.