I'm not merely "looking for sympathy" I'm sorry if it came across that way; I'm just looking for people to talk to and for support and advice; and I want to thank all of you for that - ForeverHers, thank you.

Aaron, then meet with God, confess your sins to Him, seek His forgiveness.

Then go do the same with your wife, but STOP blaming her for YOUR choices and YOUR actions.

Then begin to LIVE your life in obedience to God and REFUSE to let the bad things that have happened determine your actions TODAY or in the future. START NOW!

BE the man and the husband that God intended for your marriage.

Yes, there is a lot of pain to deal with on both sides.

If your wife is willing, then you both need to be in JOINT Christian counseling immediately. You need someone who not only will support your marriage, but who will hold you both accountable for obedience to God.

Aaron, Christ DIED for ALL of your sins and for ALL of you wife's sins. No matter how bad or foul or hurtful. God is a God of FORGIVENESS and RESTORATION.

Both you and your wife are not in the "deep dark valley of life." JESUS will both carry you out and lead the way until you are both strong enough to walk alongside of Him as He leads.

But you MUST start NOW and you must start with surrender. All of it. All of the sins and all of the pain and anguish.

We can talk about what you are feeling, but right now you must act, even if you don't feel like it, unless you want to call God and His promises to Christians as liar.

Let us know when you have chosen and when you are acted in response to that choice.

God bless.

I'm trying to see what you're getting at by what you just told me.

I did confess my sins to God, and I asked for his forgiveness.

I also confessed to my wife and asked for her forgiveness; she said she forgave me; then she left and had the abortion.

What are these actions that you speak of? I have already learned from my mistake - I don't plan on ever kissing a woman out of wedlock again - I saw where it got me; and no, my wife cheating before I made that decision in no way justified my actions - I realize that.

What my question was, was where do I go from here in regards to my wife? Do I leave her? She killed our baby; and no - that was no my decision. I love her still, very much so, even after what happened - and yes, I want to forgive her; but I'm trying to figure out what is best here. She doesn't really seem to seek Jesus like she said she does; now I KNOW that's not my place to judge that, for I don't know her heart - only her and God do; I am merely stating how I feel on the matter and trying to see if being married to her; even if she ever wanted to be again - is really for the best.

***There is also an official e-mail from Planned Parenthood in her e-mail account welcoming her as a "New Patient" and stating her username and password; although it says nowhere in the letter that her visit was an "Abortion" I do not know.***

Can you use the password to access her Planned Parenthood account? If this was your baby, you have a right to know the truth. And if the two of you are still legally married, it seems that you also have the right to know her medical history.

Call the Planned Parenthood office and ask them if they can just tell you as her husband!

***Someone from her baby forum PMed her with a subject heading of "APB" - i don't know what that means; but I think it has to deal with abortion;***

I don't know what it means either. In police talk, "APB" means "all-points bulletin" - as in, a message that goes out to everyone.

My Taber's Medical Dictionary does not have APB. I Googled "APB abortion" and got "abortion, premature birth" - as in "spontaneous abortion" or "miscarriage".

***and the person who PMed her said the following:
Hey Shannon - Haven't seen you on in awhile just wondering how things are going for you this week? I'm hoping you're not on here b/c you are in the process of moving back to Seattle! Check-in when you get a chance, I just hope things are looking a little brighter this week than in the last few for you! Take care of yourself and stay strong.
-Kara
P.S. I never did hear how your doc appt went, did you find anything out?***

That's pretty nebulous. What was the date of the abortion WW said she had? You don't have an appointment for an abortion to "find out" something.

Again, Fox, you need solid proof here. At this point, it sounds like WW might have been pregnant but had a miscarriage and then cruelly tried to punish you by saying she had an abortion. If she had a miscarriage, then *technically* she had an abortion - a natural, spontaneous abortion - but not the deliberate medical-procedure kind.

Get Proof! Don't take her word for anything!
Mulan

I tried going on the site via the link they providers her and could not find any Log On apperatus; their site is very confusing.

I finally discovered how to get into that account - there was no information involving anything; only that she had set her preferred clinic to the one closest to her mother's house. This was the last e-mail she sent me. She took all of the money out of our bank account and closed my only means of paying bills in my credit card.

--------------------------------

I'm sorry that I haven't written back but I have had a lot on my mind and I have been really busy. My appointment is this afternoon, so for now there still is a baby. (what is the point of saying that when she was just going to kill the baby anyways? Rub it in?)

My decision hasn't changed though, and I am sorry for that, because I don't want you to think that I am trying to disrespect your wishes....I'm not. (Then why did she kill the baby?)

I have thought about this a lot, and no matter what you may think, I wanted this baby, but neither of us can afford to keep it at this time. (Yes, yes we could - but she didn't give us that chance; and this is coming from the same girl who told me that "We didn't need all the money in the world of raise a child" when I told her we weren't ready before she got pregnant because of finances. So, naturally, I went along with it.

Raising a child is harder than I think you realize, and I want to see you excel in life....you would give up college a year before graduating and have to pay back thousands of dollars in loans just for the chance to be a dad??? (What is she thinking in saying this? OF COURSE I AM. I would give up everything I have for this child. How could she even ask such an idiotic question?)

I guess I just don't understand. I don't think that you understand where I am coming from either. (No I don't understand where she was coming from...)

I want you to know that I do love you and I do care about you...it's never been that. I will always smile when I remembered what we had, but you deserve better than what I am capable of giving you...you deserve a loving wife who is happy, a good education and degree that allows you to excel, and eventually a family...all of which I cannot give you. I would not be able to live with myself if I knew I would deprive you of that chance to have something better than what I had to offer. I understand if you don't want to talk to me again, but there are still some things that we need to wrap up. We have $40 in our bank account right now so we need to decide what to do with the money so we can close that account. Also, if you wouldn't mind canceling the joint credit card and then send me some sort of verification that it has been done. Also, as far as things I left at the house....the only things I can think of that I want are my Hawaiian blanket and any board games that you don't want ( I really like Clue and Yahtzee). Also, there are 2 boxes in your closet....the top one has all your computer stuff in it, and the bottom one I have not looked at. If there is anything in there that is mine, you can bring me that as well. Also, if you could give me a number and address where you will be staying, I can get in touch with you and pick up the papers, or whatever else I need.

Again, I am sorry for any pain that I have caused you. I am not trying to be a heartless ****** and I only hope with time that you may be able to see that. I wish nothing but the best for you, Aaron, and I hope someday you can find the best things for yourself in life.

You will always be in my heart.

~Shannon

------------------------------------------------

I then e-mailed her back, infuriated, and told her that if she killed the baby, I would lose all respect for her; and would want to have nothing to do with her ever again - after which she called me, told me to grow up, and we haven't talked since.

How could she even ask me if "I was willing to quit school JUST for the chance at being a dad?" I don't understand that...

Fox: What was the exact date of her supposed therapeutic abortion?

How does it jive with the dates of the other emails from her friends, and with the ones she sent you?
Mulan

Aaron

its been some time and I see its all started over again, now with some sad consequences for all.

I think you need to acknowledge the termination - by choice - was hers to make right or wrong. Morally not, but legally yes.
She made it not you.

Now going on her past behaviour it would appear she had some appointments and some medical problems with the PG before she states she had the abortion. I wonder if it was unavoidable but she has chosen to make you the whipping boy? This info is from the emails. Sadly it would fit into her previous behaviour pattern.
There is also a strong chance she simply chickened out realising the responsiblity of a parent and not confident you would be there. DOESN"T MATTER WHAT YOU SAID TO HER ON THIS - SHE NEVER HAS TRULY TRUSTED YOU I believe. Thats been one of the big problems in the M - she doesn't trust anyone much.
If it WAS done out of spite then you need to consider if this is the person you wish to remain married to VERY CAREFULLY.

SECONDLY SHE WAS ALREADY talking about leaving you AGAIN in these emails. Just think on that too.

Your own behaviour was poor you already know. HOWEVER you stopped at a kiss and moved away. Not ideal no, BUT YOU DID WALK AWAY!! Ok to accept you failed too but remember you walked & told her as well. Sadly you had to drag SOME details out of your ww and even now not know the whole truth with her behaviour. I think that says a lot in the context of all this.

Right now you need make no decision at all, but it is yours to make and you'll get heaps of advice.
Mine too. Sadly IMHO I do not feel your M will last ...theres been a lot of hurt within it, more so than just adultery. But you dont have to decide now.

However I will say that should the both of you give it another try ..then for goodness sakes get professional help for both of you in Individual counselling AND Marriage C if you want any real chance.

I'm so sorry it worked out like this.

God bless Aaron


AW

Mulan, they seem to match up. Although, I swear she told me that her appointment was on a Monday; when in fact she said it was done on a Wednesday - I tend to be pretty forgetful though, so it could have been my memory.

All of the things add up in chronological order however, sadly.

I am so sorry Fox for all the pain you are going through. Be sure and not take on the extra guilt of your wife choosing to end your babies life.

Just be thankful, that you have only invested a few years together, and you are not looking at having to face years of alimony and loosing half of your assets, as some of the b/s and w/s have. Some of the b/s have been married 25 or more years, and have their family torn apart, financially and emotionaly by an affair.

You just got a repreive. Your wife showed what she was capable of in the beginning of your marrige.

You will not have to go through this years later when you have obligations to meet, which make your priorities totally change.

If you choose to try to save this marriage, I am sure that you will recieve good advice here.

Take care of yourself,


Sincerely,
K.D.'s Heartbreak

My dear FoxOr,

It has been a long time since we have heard from you. As your MB older Bro' & Sisters, we are concerned. Our hearts reach out to you right now for all the grief you have encourntered. I am truly sorry for all you are going through.

Guess you can see that 2 wrongs don't make a right...... Worse yet, each of your W's decisions seem to take her deeper and deeper into the realm of despair. To take a life is going to have a deeper impact on her more than a D and a D is devasting as it is.

But what is even worse is how she is making callous decisions for your family w/o consulting you and telling lies. Those lies are the greatest deceit of all.

For the above reasons, call or write her parents to let them know the real story. Tell them that while you don't expect the to believe you, it is important they get both sides so that they can get their daughter the help they need. Copy her sister on those letters. Don't give out how you found out but let them know that she is speaking with a forked tongue and you are afraid that even though she has cut you out of her life that she may soon do the same to do.

Why do I say this? Because her pattern is a dangerous one. If left unchecked could lead to a greater life of deceit.

This may be the last time you can you can help any of them....or develope a bond that will help them through what is to be ahead.

See if your W can do this to you, she can continue t/d this with others.

I say this because my own sister is proof positive of where lies can take one. But slowly over the years and with God's help, I have been able to survive. My parents are not doing as well since they have allowed my sister's reign of guilt to hurt them mentally, physically and emotionally...... just last night I learned more of my sisters escapades of over 17 years ago.....yea, news travels slowly in this part of the galaxy but it is still news that only reinforces my stance. I love her dearly but will not be used to enable her wicked ways. Kinda like plan B but she is too much in the fog to even know there is a plan....yet I wait...patently.

I share my personal experience so you may see something similar......maybe just 1 point. Be true to yourself, don't allow yourself to enable her current condcut and be patient.

You have my e-mail. I think my cell # changed since the last time we spoke..... I will e-mail you the new one.

take care,
L.

FoxOr,

I just e-mailed you. R u still in Seattle? If so, let us know. There are some great MB people out that way. Maybe getting a closer support group can help.

Aloha,
L.

Aaron, I understand the raging emotions you are feeling, but you are letting them control you, control what you say, control how you act. You are not letting God control.

You SAY you "have done this and done that," but your actions speak that you simply tried to "check off" some steps as you perceive them without really understanding or embracing what you were doing.

Let me put it this way, it might help clarify things a little in your thinking and understanding:

YOU, and me, and your wife, and my wife, and all of us humans KILLED Jesus. When we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior it DOES NOT erase what we did, it gains us God's forgiveness. Aaron, God HAS forgiven you a debt that was so huge that it could NEVER be repaid by you. It took Christ to pay the price and God to grant you forgiveness because of what HE did, not what you did or paid.

From whom MUCH is forgiven, much is expected. Your wife MAY have hurt you terribly and may have aborted the child. But that is NOT an "unforgiveable" sin to God.

What I WILL tell you, and tell your wife if you two should decide to try again to save your marriage, is that at 20 years of age, it is TIME for you both to grow up and MEAN what you say when you say you are a "servant of Christ and a born-again Christian." It is time you both surrendered your childish "thoughts" and "excuses" and surrender your lives to God. It is time you both had extensive Christian marital counseling, because all that I keep hearing from both of you is what "I," "I," "I," want and what "I" think is "needed." Rubbish! What is needed is to OBEY God and not the "craziness" of your own emotions and thoughts.

Aaron, I KNOW this is a very difficult time for you. There are NO easy answers. But the answers begin with being obedient to God even when the world seems to be crashing down around you.

Do you have solid people at church who can help? Is there a good counselor you can access?

I can provide a link to the NANC counseling website if you want to search for counselors in your area.

Just remember for now this one cardinal rule....make NO life changing decsions while lost in severe emotional turmoil. During this time, "hang on" and wait for calmer days to assess things and make decisions.

God bless.

Orchid; her parents won't care about the abortion - her mother was the one who probably convinced her to go through with it to begin with; her mother had an abortion before my wife was born - my wife, in essence, was a mistake on her parent's part.

I would e-mail her mom and tell her that she needs to tell her daughter to stop fabricating the truth and telling people that the baby is dead because I wouldn't support her; but it wouldn't do anything - her mother wouldn't care. Her dad refuses to get involved in the situation - her parents never talk either.

Yes, I am in the Seattle area for X-mas break; as for afterwards, I am going back to school; I have three semesters remaining.

I need some advice though - I have been thinking this over, and the more and more I think about it - the more I know that I need to get away from my STBXW forever; she is destroying me. One life has been lost because of her; I don't want to be a part of this anymore. It's become painfully obvious that she's a lost cause as far as this marriage is concerned.

I e-mailed her for the first time since the abortion yesterday; she hasn't responded. The e-mail was short and to the point; I merely stated:

"You need to let me know when you are available this week so my roommate can meet you somewhere and give you your things and have you sign the D-papers."

She hasn't responded.