I'll try to keep this shorter than my usual long-winded posts, but I need to give you some background if you're going to make an informed suggestion so please be patient and I'll try to be coherent <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just the facts:

Separated in Aug 04 - XH suffered from clinical depression, started using recreational drugs, porn addiction, became impossible to live with - I don't suppose I was a joy either, walking on eggshells to avoid his bad temper. Verbal abuse, no physical abuse.

XH was spiralling downward, I couldn't fix him or make him fix himself (duh)... in Nov 04 he got laid off, in March 05 he got kicked out of friend's place he was staying with for his "activities" (porn and drug use). He lived in our shop for 10 days while he waited for an apartment. He was even suicidal at that point - left a "will" where I'd find it - I knew he wouldn't do it but he was in a bad space with no signs of getting out of it.

In March of 05 I entered a relationship which ended in November. As the relationship wound down, I realized how much I still loved my H, I'd seen some major changes in him for the better and I told him so when we had a chance to talk. OM left a week later - I was ready for some alone time, and perhaps time to figure out if the M was saveable.

Meanwhile in May of 05 I told H that he couldn't have visitation until he passed a drug screen. This prompted him to call me every name in the book, accuse me of controlling him - to which I replied that 1) He couldn't hurt me anymore, 2) If he was doing nothing wrong, take the test and make a fool out of me and 3) He could do what he wanted, he's alone and a grown man, but I wasn't going to lose my kids over his stupid choies. We exchange vehicles because of business and I was always finding paraphernalia in his car, which I'd photograph (for divorce if needed) and discard.

In July he told me he'd take a test - and he passed. I've done a total of 3 and he's passed them all - I can ask for another at any time but I don't think he's using - I can usually tell by his demeanor. So he gets points for getting clean - and not so coincidentally, his demeanor changed for the better when he stopped using self-medication in conjunction with his prescribed anti-depressants.

Also in July he met a woman through an online dating service - she's on the other side of the country.

During all this time we continued to have family dinners every Friday night, and did a few family type activities. I don't know if his g/f knows/knew about this - but if I were her I wouldn't be too happy about it.

In August I filed for divorce - I had wanted to file sooner but he hadn't been "emotionally ready" so I respected that, then he got laid off (wouldn't get support with no income), and so I got "around to it" when I was involved with someone else. D was scheduled for early December.

When I realized the error of my ways, and wanted to reconcile - and told H about it, he was somewhat lukewarm receptive - but he still had online g/f whom he'd visited a month or so before, and he wasn't wanting to let go of that yet. He told me she was planning a visit here, but didn't know when. 2 weeks later he bought her a plane ticket with his airmiles - even though we were talking about postponing the D. He and I weren't dating or anything - but the door had been opened and supposedly he was considering things. I suspect too, that g/f was pressuring him too... so he made a choice. The one that gave him butterflies....

We spent all of Thanksgiving day together - prepared a meal together, went on an outing as a family together - I was really cautiously optimistic that he'd make a choice and work on things. We had a great day as a family - someone we know (but who didn't know we were separated) even took pictures and posted them on an Internet bulletin board I frequent, describing the happy family they saw there. It was both joyous and horrifying to read that on a public board <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> We did look like a happy family - we WERE a happy family. We could continue to be a happy family - with the right amount of committment and work...

The day I was going to postpone the D, I checked our joint bank account (has 2 automatic payments that I take care of - just haven't moved them out of that account yet so I can close it)... I was also given permission to move funds out of his personal account into the joint account for our business... and lo and behold I see he's paid his g/f rent. (Of course it's just a "loan"...well we all know how those types of loans work, huh?)

That set off a HUGE red flag - it told me he's still irresponsible with money, and it confirmed to me what I suspected the g/f was only after money - so I decided to proceed with D, to protect my support. We barely have enough money as it is, without his paying somebody's rent. Long story short, I did follow through with D for practical reasons only - my heart still wants to reconcile, but he's apparently still in the fog, and I realized he's been eating cake.... has online g/f on the side, but still playing family man too. Can't have it both ways. I wanted to show him what he *could* have again, but he wasn't willing at that point to step back from both of us and decide what he really wanted, so I put a stop to family stuff - he made a choice.

So with the D I put an end to family stuff. No more Friday dinners etc. We are divorced now - so breeding false hope isn't a good thing anymore. He accused me of being mean etc., but when the next Friday came, he never made mention of it. He took the kids to the library on Wednesday night as he used to do but didn't make any extra attempts to see them.. and didn't balk about no dinner together on Friday.

I also prevented kids from meeting G/F when she was here the week of the D (talk about timing!) It wasn't hard - XH made himself scarce -even to g/f - he worked his regular job each day she was here except divorce day (he had court in the morning and dragged g/f to job site all afternoon/evening), and every night except 2 he dragged her along to our business' client's home for work on her project. He had one "free" evening the Tuesday she was here, and the other one he spent with me at our daughter's band concert. Not a nice way to treat G/F... wondering what to make of that? He brings her across the country and doesn't even take her out to dinner *g*... He even wanted Saturday off from our business to spend with her, but ended up spending most of the day til afer 9 at night at the client's working on her project. Granted it was a big job but some of it could have waited til g/f had left... I'm not complaining but I think it was rather interesting that when she came all the way here on his dime, he didn't even entertain her. All of our city that she saw she probably saw on the way to the airport the day she left. The rest was a client's basement! Nice!

ANYWAY... what's my point? (So much for keeping it short!)... Christmas is coming... I don't know what to do...he and I have not discussed plans - he's a last-minute sort of guy - but I'm trying to figure out what is best at this point...

Part of me wants to invite him as I did on Thanksgiving - show him what he's missing with his family.

Part of me wants to just tell him he can pick the kids up for a few hours in the PM for gift exchange.

I don't want him to "eat cake"... but I do want to try to lure him back to the family. There's a fine line there, isn't there?

I also don't want to inadvertenly punish the kids either.

Legally he has no visitation rights because he didn't take the state-mandated parenting course prior to D. He *should* have been able to take them from after school last Friday, til 2:00 Christmas day (but I doubt he'd have done that anyway)... even if he wanted to he can't enforce that right now.

I haven't withheld any visitation - he is supposed to take his course next month and if he doesn't I'll talk to my attorney about what I should do - but for now I'm going to assume he's going to do that, and try to not disrupt things.

So should I invite him for Christmas as I did for Thanksgiving --- OR should I just tell him he can pick them up for a few hours on Christmas day?

Since G/F left 8 days ago, I don't "sense" her presence anymore - I have a feeling it has gone south already...after the week he "treated" her to if I were her I'd have been gone by Wednesday... I could be way off base here, I'm the last one he'd tell if things soured... but my gut tells me if it isn't over just yet, it will be very soon.

IF that happens, then the fog *may* lift and after some alone time he might have an epiphany and decide he wants to work to earn his family back.

I do want to reconcile - but I won't excuse old behaviours anymore. I have seen many changes in him - good ones, but there's still work to do. Same goes with me - I've made some positive changes but I'm still a work in progress.

For me, Plan B is virtually impossible since we co-own the business. We do work well together so I've been Plan A-ing for a while. Had some minor setbacks during Divorce/g/f visit week - but by and large I think I have more plusses than minuses at this point. We work well together in our business, conversation can be light and we even had a good laugh over a silly inside joke yesterday. (Times like that are good and bad - good but it's hard being with him and wanting him and right now he's not interested..) During times of duresse we've both said it's over for good... but he knows I still love him very much, he does know I'd like to give it one more shot.

I'm not standing in the doorway holding my breath, but I haven't slammed the door shut either. The ball is in his court to make the first move and prove himself - meanwhile I'm trying to make myself more appealing a partner. I'm doing things for ME and that's making me look better to all those around me and people are noticing. Dress a bit better, makeup (haven't worn any in years, but I am now) had my hair styled, lost some weight... all these things I do for myself first, but I'd like to attract him back too...

My goal is to attract my husband back to me and to his family - I do think it's salvageable even at this late date... IF he's willing to work for it and prove he's trustworthy and responsible again. That much is up to him.

So given all that info... I'd like suggestions on what the best plan might be for Christmas....

Please help me...

H2U

For Christmas I would make my plans and not scheudle anything around him. Let him work around your schedule. Let him be the one who does the calling and asking.

That's more or less what I've been doing so far. I have not mentioned Christmas at all. No suggestions, no questions - just doing my own preparations. I did take the kids shopping and we picked out a gift each from the children, to their father - that's the civil thing to do, IMO.

Let me ask you this then... if he asks to come over Christmas day, would I be better off inviting him for the day, OR asking him to pick the kids up for a few hours? Since I am in the driver's seat here - I want to make a good choice - the right one, for the kids and me. I'm really not too sure what the best choice is at this point.

My plans are pretty simple - typical Christmas morning with myself and the children, and Christmas dinner for 3. Wouldn't be hard to set another place at the table - and no I'm not making things deliberately easy for H... we have no family here and have not been invited anywhere else. If that came up I'd certainly think about going - I'd rather let somebody else cook *g* and bring a dessert or whatever... but at this point it just looks like a quiet day at home.

H2U

You're in a difficult position. I don't really have any advice for you but thought I'd share with you what I chose to do for my children concerning Christmas and why.

I too am divorced although we are both remarried (he married the OW).

When we drew up the visitation plans in our final parenting plan I struggled with what was best for Christmas, Christmas Eve, New Year's etc. I wanted to spend the holidays with my children. If XH and I had to take turns I couldn't get around it, but I didn't want to and was trying to wrangle it so I had them for the most amount of time on the holidays.

Then, my attorney said something to me that made a lot of sense. She suggested not splitting up the holiday's or making the kids go from one parent to another during the day. It's hard for the kids to switch gears and although they may not speak up about it out of guilt to either parent, most kids just want to enjoy the day and not have to deal with the realities of their parents divorce and be shuffled back and forth.

I thought about it and I had to agree. My parents were divorced too and I would have liked to just stay home, play with my toys (face it, we're talking about kids and that is important to them) and enjoy the holiday.

I had to take the focus off of what was fair to me or fair to XH and make it solely about what was fair to our children.

It was a turning point for me in the way I handled decisions about my children in regard to holiday's and the parenting plan.

So, this year the children are with me from the last day of Christmas break until Christmas Eve day. They go with their dad from Christmas Eve day to the day before school resumes. It's going to be hard for me to deal with, but my babies get to go to bed on Christmas Eve, wake up to Santa having visited and enjoy whatever plans their family there has.... all day. They get to play all day with their toys and not have to be uprooted from their holiday to make it easier on ME. Next year we switch and they'll be waking up and spending the day at our home.

So, my suggestion is that whatever you decide to do, make your decision on what is best.... not necessarily what is fair. I made a lot of bad decisions in regards to my children trying to be fair to either me or my XH. You know your children best. Would it be best for them to send them with him for a few hours on Christmas?

Thanks for the input - and it's definitely on my mind about what is best for *them* first, even if I didn't come across that way.

My DD is 13 and DS is 11, and mature for their years, but still rather innocent (if that makes any sense)... they are amazingly intelligent and perceptive but they aren't trying to grow up too fast, if you know what I mean.

I'm not sure what's best for them. That's why I'm asking. Family Thanksgiving was wonderful for all of us... but then I had to deal with questions 10 days later about the divorce, and "why can't we be a family again?"... especially after the good time we had, and the good times we've had as a family since the separation. I can't answer that. I want to be a family again with my XH... but if he doesn't, I can't change that. Spending the day could be nice, but it could also bring more false hope - and none of us needs that heartbreak anymore.

He may not even want to come over for Christmas - but he has no place else to go that I'm aware of and it would stink to be alone on Christmas day -- but then again, that was his choice. He chose not to seek treatment for the problems that caused the separation, he never approached me to reconcile... I approached him after he'd started resolving his issues but he had made another choice in a woman on the other side of the country. Yes I chose the divorce, but as I said - I did that to protect myself and my kids... so while I made that choice myself, I do think I did the right thing. I KNOW I did the right thing at the time.

Trying to figure out what the right thing is now.

H2U

Bump <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Bump!

Oh, I didn't mean to imply you weren't putting them first. I was simply bringing up something that was an eye opener for *me* and might help you. I was trying so hard to make things fair to us as parents (equal time, making sure he felt included, etc.) that I sometimes forgot to make it FIRST AND FOREMOST about them. When I did that, a lot of my decisions became easier to make.


I know exactly what you mean. My girls are 11 and 9 (9 & 7 when XH started affair). It's refreshing to see the innocence they still have at times and heart breaking to glimpse the little ways in which they lost some of it through the process.


I wish I could say the same! Mine seem to think they are going on 16 <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


In my situation, I look back and see that this is one area in which my girls were probably hurt the most. The false hope over and over again just crushed something inside of them. He lied right to their faces as well. I feel like I should have been stronger and protected them from that. My own desire to hold on to the family put them right in the middle. I wish I had found a way to guard them from the hurt during the process.


You're right that was his choice. I made that mistake too (in fact I bet I can find an old post that says those exact same words one year ago!) Going to your house because he doesn't want to be alone and has no where else to go is, in my experience, setting yourself up for some pain. If he comes because he misses you and the kids and doesn't want to be without you - THAT is another story. But to come because it's the only option... you'd be better off enjoying that quiet day at home with the kids.


You will. (((hugs))) Unfortunately, what worked or didn't work for anyone else isn't your answer. You'll know what you need to do.

If I was you, I would plan on your day at home with your little ones lovingly protected from being a mere 'only option'.

But you'll know what is best for you and yours.

Merry Christmas <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

FIM

Therein lies the question doesn't it?

IF he asks to come over, is it because he genuinely wants time with his family (myself included), or is it a way to avoid being alone?

We're amicable - in fact this last few days things have been very relaxed between us.

Thanksgiving we all genuinely had a great day together - which makes it hard to understand why he doesn't want to reconcile... although he had somebody else in his life then - not sure if she's still in the picture or not - I don't "sense" her presence anymore (she lives across the country)... but I don't know for certain one way or another.

If he did want to reconcile it's too soon to jump into anything foolish right on the heels of another relationship - but if he wanted to begin "working his way home" I'd be open to that.

Hard to say right now. It's Tuesday, Christmas is Sunday and other than a bit of conferring about who is buying what for whom (usually I had to buy everything - so that's a nice change!), we haven't talked about specific plans for the day.

I'll let him come to me and go with my gut.

I'm still open to thoughts/suggestions <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

H2U

Well I've resolved to make this as good a Christmas as I can - for all of us.

I want my XH to feel welcome and at home with us, no I'm not going to be a doormat, but I want to work Plan A as hard as I can. Leave him wanting more.

I firmly believe he's on the fence - having a piece of cake... but sooner or later he's going to have to come off that fence. I want him to come down on our side of it.

Going forward, I'm not going to try to have any big emotional heart-to-heart talks with him (unless he initates it), I'm just going to be myself and present as inviting an atmosphere as I can - during the Holidays and after that. We'll be together for Christmas Eve and he'll be back Christmas day. Not doing anything "over the top"... just a low-key family day.

Sooner or later when his fog lifts, IF it's meant to be, he'll see things for what they are, and perhaps then he'll commit to working his way home. If he doesn't, I'll still have done things for myself and my children and we'll get along just fine. I'll also know that I did my best to try to repair things at my end.

I find it very ironic that now he's doing almost "everything right" and yet we aren't together. He's filling EN of mine that he didn't before, and it's very attractive to me. My eyes are wide open and things can only move forward to a point while g/f is still in the picture, but if/when he decides to go NC, then we can move forward with MC and life - dating to begin, and perhaps some day we'll be in a place where he can move home again. That's my desire, if it's God's will. I've been praying for peace, strength and guidance on this, and I know God is hearing me - His answers may be different than what I want to hear, but this is what my heart is telling me to do, so that's what I'm going to do. With God's help I'll get through this.

I'm finally beginning to catch the holiday spirit. For whatever it's worth I'm making the best of it.

I have not yet begun to fight for my man.

H2U