Here I am again to bring up the subject of using the Internet to meet potential dates. I call them dating sites since I can't imagine actually using the Internet to date somebody. How do I kiss a woman goodnight on the internet? Do we plant our lips on the mouse at the same time? YUKKY!!!

My big gripe with these sits is that people use them inapropriately. They become like kids in a candy store, sampling this and that, constantly tempted by something that looks or smells better. Never able to settle for one thing.

I have mentioned before in other messages that I do NOT like the way many women want, even demand, instant chemistry and/or fireworks on the first date, sometimes in the introduction meeting over coffee. How goofy is that?

The old fashioned way of meeting people was slow, but since weeks or months could go by before meeting another datable person, people were willing to spend some time getting to know another person well. Sure, there are certain warning signs and deal-breakers that cause us to cut off a person very early, but, mostly we spent weeks or months dating somebody before making a decision.

Today, the temptation on the Internet sites seems to be to make an instant judgement, and if the other person can't pass the test AT THIS VERY MOMENT, he or she is rejected. There are even books written about how to tell if somebody is right for you in only a few mintues. No allowances are made for being nervous, having a bad day, or being a bit shy. How silly is that?

Of course, who are the guys who make the best instant impressions? Come on! You know the answer. It's the Bad Boys. They are masters of knowing what to do and say to stir up a woman's interest and lower her guard.
And, I am sure, there are less than admirable women, who do the same thing to men.

Your thoughts?

I don't think it's the bad boys because I'm not looking for them. I think I get weeded out because I'm not Slender. I see many men view my profile on match but don't write.

What I do think is that all of us who have been through our healing process know that there are many aspects to a relationship and we are willing to take the time to learn about someone without making snap judgements. Not everyone is that way, and we will find the right people for us.
Internet dating helps us meet people who wouldn't normally cross our paths, and I know I'm not out in bars looking for men, so unless I trip over one, the internet will have to do.

This is definitely how it is here in LA. And unfortunately, there are enough single rich guys here to allow any half-decent looking woman to be wined and dined every night of the week (yes, I actually met those women).

So, I think that some (many?) people end up falling into that pattern - a bunch of "fun" dates, rather than a real effort to get to know a person. Why bother getting to know someone who is not perfect when there are always 100 other guys wooing you to go for a ride in the new Bentley to the best restaurant in town?

What I like to do is meet those who are not new to online dating, i.e. those women who have already gone through the "kid in the candy store" experience and realized that most of the crowd is all talk. Then, they can be ready for the real thing, uh, me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

The woman I met on Sunday had over 300 matches in her first two months on Eharmony, and so even though we were matched up early on, I wanted to wait until she got through most of them before meeting her. To her credit <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, she was not impressed with most of them, plus I think she has her head screwed on straight, so she was looking for a real relationship, not just the superficial stuff.

In fact, I realize that most women I ended up having relationships with had several hundred e-mails from others before meeting me - I guess it just means that the old adage is true - "try the rest before you try the best".

Seriously, IMO, it is a numbers game, but if/when you come across someone who is looking for a real relationship (not just for "fun"), she will appreciate the nice and stable guy more than the bad boys.

AGG

Wow, when I did the profile thing and filled out the eharmony stuff (never became a paying customer, though), I didn't have any matches at all.

I admit of the 5 guys I dated while on Match, two of them were one-date only experiences. But I knew on those one dates that there wasn't chemistry, there wasn't much in common, and there just wasn't going to be. The other three guys, I dated more times.

Looks aren't everything. Personality, especially on the first date, isn't everything. There's a lot that goes into what I'm looking for. Like I said on another thread, the guy who is currently breaking my heart...well, he wasn't the most attractive of the guys I dated. He is very average, or at least was when we first met. No immediate fireworks, but not a turn-off either. But now I find I am very attracted to him. The chemistry came.

The first guy I dated was a "hottie". There was instant physical attraction. But the more I got to know him over those three dates, the more we freaked each other out.

I do think there are times when you can tell very quickly that someone is just NOT right for you at all. But if things are just mediocre, I think you need to see them more times to really determine what you think of them. I don't buy into the "love at first sight" thing.

And having been married to a "bad boy", yes, they can get your attention faster initially. They're flirty, they push the envelope, they can be exciting. But they also cause a world of hurt. Give me a GOOD GUY any day! He just needs a little spunk.

LL

Though I only know one dating site, and it´s a small, rather "cosy" one compared to sites like Match or Yahoo, I think you can compare the use of these sites to the use of ebay: You can browse the offers and save to your Favorites what you like - buy now or bid later.

I very much understand your gripe, Justin. I don´t know if there are many models out there on these dating sites, or "instant chemistry producers" but I don´t feel I´m one of them. Sure, I´m reasonably attractive, smart, and funny, but it takes quite a while for me to let my guard down, what with being divorced an´all.

So I like to get the chance to open myself up over several dates and get to know the guy better.
Of course there are certain deal breakers that can be detected on a first date, and then there´s no use in meeting again.

Instant Chemistry is overrated, anyway. It might keep you from being perceptive enough for ENs other than Physical Attraction. Of course, most of us have Attractive Partner somewhere on our EN list and that´s valid.
But First Date Fireworks could speed up the whole dating process. Then first kisses, first making out on the couch and all what follows could happen too early, and physical intimacy overtakes emotional intimacy.

And being not quite a teenager anymore, I know that´s NOT a good thing.

Nora

Heh. I doubt many women are consciously looking for the bad boys. Somehow, though, women manage to keep finding them.

I suspect that the primary reason I could get no positive responses (and was almost universally ignored) during my online experiment was that I was honest about who I am and what I want. I don't believe I was looking too narrowly, and I don't believe I presented myself in an off-putting way. But I broke the unwritten rules by being honest, and that seems to make people uncomfortable.

I read a lot of women's profiles which were obviously written with the intent of saying what men could be expected to want to hear. I read others in which women promised the impossible or (more often) asked for the impossible. I confess that I didn't spend much time reading men's profiles, but I would be surprised if these observations wouldn't hold true there as well.

I persist in my suspicion that women say they want one thing but go chasing after another. (I do not exempt men from this folly either.)

The "bad boys" (and girls) know how to strike a spark, and they are perfectly willing to do so, because they have no intention of putting forth the energy to keep the fire going. They'll extend themselves just enough to get what they want, and they have no compunctions about using pasteboard facades where necessary.

The good ones aren't willing to promise what they can't deliver, and in our instant-gratification try-to-get-something-for-nothing society, they will lose every time to the hucksters, as long as people are so foolish as to believe that a diamond can be bought for the price of a zirconia.

"I suspect that the primary reason I could get no positive responses (and was almost universally ignored) during my online experiment was that I was honest about who I am and what I want."

Gnome,
Do you at all feel your location has anything to do with lack of responses? You're from Ohio if I remember correctly, right? I blame location to some degree. I grew up there, so I know opportunities can be limited.
I don't live in a much better place now and my "experiments" haven't been too fruitful either.

What the heck did you put on there about who you are? and what did you say you wanted?? Just messing!! Honesty is the best!

Karona

I just recently returned to America after being abroad for a couple of years. And with that return, has come time to heal and begin thinking again of dating. I have mulled around and lurked about the interenet dating services. I've yet to gather the courage to actually create a profile in any of them but I have been scouring the bottom of a trunk for the eventual pictures.

Justin, perhaps you are taking peoples responses a bit too personally? I have come to view the internet sites with an attitude of detachment really. I just can't taske it personally so I give the men who reject me the benefit of the doubt that they rejected me because I have within my profile a dealbreaker for them. I have been thinking that really these internet sites are just a way to screen for potential if you have time contraints (most of us do). For example, if I go into a bar to meet someone I've already spent at least an hour getting ready and getting there, I have NO idea whom I'll meet. By the time you get through the preliminaries speaking with someone, you've already spent more time and only on one guy. Through an internet site, at least you screen out from the very beginning your absolute requirements. For example, I really prefer to date white men who have at least a 4 year college education. They must absolutely love animals, sports and reading. Just with these few dealbreakers, you can make an immediate judgment about a person from his profile.



I guess I am quilty of making instant judgments. I just don't want to waste the time of someone who responds to me, if I know for certain that they meet my criteria for a deal breaker. Let's say their profile says I dislike dogs. Of course, being courteous is always the best policy.

I think with the proper attitude as to the purpose of these sites, we will all get less hurt. Now once you screen for potential, you screen out for possibility (ie you meet face to face). Here too I have made immediate judgments because a dealbreaker has popped up during our meeting that would not have been screened out through emails. For example, one time on a first date at his invitation, the man I went out with always walked in front of me, did not open the door for me to the restaurant, ordered before I even received a memu and actually blew his nose on his linen napkin. BAM! instant judgment. I actually nearly walked out but remain very curteous and civil and I absolutely insisted I pay my way as I knew right then and there I would not see him again.

I am sure that many women out there do make instant judgments on chemistry, but I would imagine that the majority make instant judgments on things that are dealbreakers for them just as men do.

Two things that I think most women want on a date and which will capture them are these.

1. They want to laugh.
2. They want to feel safe. Safe emotionally, safe intellectually and safe physically.

Laughter creates an immediate bond. In whatever situation you are in. If you are at the airport and your plane has just been cancelled and the people behind you make a big joke of it and laugh it off while the people in front through a hissy fit. Whom do you feel more confortable with. Once you are comfortable you can share more of yourself. You can feel safe

By the safety bit, I mean that the woman will feel really comfortable if she can express how she feels about something and not feel disregarded, or she can make a comment about the current situaion of the economy and not be belittled with contrary facts, and she will feel physically safe with man who behaves as a gentleman.

I guess with all this rambling is that Justin please do not take the rejections too personally. I know it is easier said that done, but with an attitude adjustment it will hurt less. It is rather a cold way to look at things, but it really does work. Use the internet sites to your advantage rather than have them use you. I think they have great merit. Look a AGG how exited he is.

Best of luck.

Gnome, you are starting to sound a little bitter. Are you sure you marketed yourself well in that profile?

Honesty is definitely the best policy, but it needs to be parcelled out. At times, I've been "honest" with people. I've told them something that doesn't reflect well on me early in the relationship. Usually, it's been with people I've liked a lot. Looking back on it now, I can see that it was a defense mechanism. It was like part of me was saying, "Gosh, I like this person. But if he/she finds out about X, Y, or Z, they may not like me, they may not want to be my friend. I better tell them now, show them my warts and all, and if they don't like it and leave me, at least it won't hurt as much."

Only problem is when it's too early in a relationship for that depth of honesty, people get a little freaked out. We all probably come with a red flag or two. That doesn't mean we need to wave them around in people's faces.

Also, gentlemen, what in the world do you define as "bad boys"? Are we talking drug dealers, playboys, bikers? I know dangerous when I see it(usually) and I stay away.

I agree that many people who date online are either looking for an online relationship and don't really care to date "for real" or that they are looking for instant chemistry. My most successful internet dating experiences -- two -- were with men I met online and then "for real" with the understanding that we'd NOT date. In one case it was a local guy who didn't want a relationship with a woman who had kids; We were a couple for 2.5 years. The next was Hubby; He lived 5 hours away when we read each others' ads and so we were just friends for over a year, talking and visiting when we could... til warm fuzzies turned to sparks and we had to make tough choices. The net is a TOOL. For those of us who don't care for bars and aren't socially active in a group where we can meet people of the opposite sex very easily, it does serve a purpose. My rule was always three emails and then a phone call to set up a date. I didn't like to chat online with someone who didn't seem to want the "real" me.

Mrs. W8ing

I found the love of my life via match.com. It worked very well, thank you, for us. But we could have had the initial interaction via any other means - if we had waited long enough. The success of our relationship so far is not dependent on how we met - it's due to who we are and how we conduct ourselves.

Using internet dating services may not work for everyone, just like meeting potential "mates" in the grocery store, at a bar, through mutual friends, due to chance encounter, or any other medium may not work well. It all comes down to the individuals involved.

All the complaints and criticisms about problems using internet dating sites can usually be made for all other ways of meeting potential mates. Don't falsely accuse the medium for problems with the participants.

AGoodGuy - where have you been? Nevermind - I'm the one who's been "gone." Been busy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Hey bud, so good to hear from you! It has been a while - sounds like you are doing well, congrats!

I just met someone totally wonderful (see my other thread), but it's just the early stages still... How long have you been involved with your SO? Sounds great!

Anyway, good to know that you are happy, alive, and dating <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

I worked in publishing in my twenties so I already had tons of men wine and dine and it's very boring after a few months. Nothing could make me fall for a guy with money without some kind of trust and connection. There is a lot of distrust of women out there and men are mainly formal or scared or being hurt and rejected again. I can't deal with the constant distrust and the millions of personal questions. It's not necessary when my life is an open book mainly. One man told me recently on a site, that I really wear my heart on my sleeve. I don't think it was a compliment but that's how I like to be.

I think it's best to advertise for friends only. It can always work up to something more but then the Good girls, if that's what you are looking for feel safer.

I would never, never, never go through that again and let anyone even imagine there could be something romantic involved. Too many problems with blatant sexual predators, or even cold dates with expectations at the end-even with men in my area who were close to me, had the same interests, it's just too distrustful. I find the Good Boys to be very distrustful and ask me me a million questions about my income, lifestyle.

Too scary!

I guess Bad Boys get women by being easier to deal with?

Anyway, I am a very good catch as a woman and I will be hiding in a platonic area of the world, if chemistry happens it happens.

Nat

Ahh... Justin!
I haven't been on here for awhile and you are still in the same place?! Here's my input:
I had a guy insist on "chemistry", we emailed quite a bit, then decided to meet. We met for coffee. I walked in, he already had his, no offer to get mine, did not wait for me. He seemed distracted, and then after a half hour he said he had a meeting and had to go. I figured, okay, no "chemistry" there for him. A few days later I wrote him and told him such and that I still enjoyed meeting him and wished him luck on his search.
He wrote me back, offended that I said there was no chemistry! (I wasn't looking for it-how can you get that on the first date?! I normally have a three date rule -that's after I email enough to feel comfortable meeting him). SO...I apologized and said I was mistaken in my assumption, okay, then let's meet again. Never heard another word. Is that weird or what?!

Here's what I think about the "testers". If they'll do it on-line, they'll do it with you in "real life"! I am who I am, whether it be on-line or off. And THAT'S what *I'M* looking for. So if you feel they are not interested, MOVE ON!
Justin, might you just be so eager to meet someone that you are becoming a little overbearing and perhaps cynical? I don't mean that in a harsh way, but like I said initially, I've not been around for almost a month and your other threads and posts said the same thing....
Can you find ANY positive about the internet dating thing? Cuz if not, I think you should try some other approach. You are meeting several people very quickly. You would meet the same kind of people outside of the internet, but would take more time to find this out. Be grateful!!! Let it be a positive rather than a negative that you are weeding out the yukky ones, focus on the ones that interest you and you feel are interested right back atcha!

GG had a great post! What I set out to do when I meet one of these fellas is to try to get to know him for HIM. I ask questions, I try to see what makes him tick. Then when the date is over I put on my "picker" hat and ask myself if this is someone I want to get to know more. To me, it's not chemistry, if there is "chemistry" on the first date, it really should be called lust, because that's what it is. Chemistry is when you KNOW someone. Lust is just wild abandon. Besides, what if the person is nervous, had a bad day, etc. I'll give them more than one chance if they ask, and there weren't any HUGE dealbreakers upfront.

Groundingstone makes some good points too. I guess the man I like the best is the one who seems to want to know ME for ME. It doesn't mean I've got to tell them my entire life story (which is enough to scare ANYONE away!) the first meeting. I don't want to feel that "safe" on the first date either-another mistake in being too comfortable with someone you just met-I just set out to get to know them and the ones that seem to want to know me I'll see again.

Hope all that makes sense!
I missed you all! Especially the lively intelligent threads like this one! Thanks for starting it JE! I just think you need to relax a little. People are people-good and bad, internet, on the street, in a bar, in church...if they are true to themselves, they will be the same in any of those places... make sense?

Drita, thanks for the comments.

I certainly have no objections to being questioned about things that are of interest to a woman. And, I do the same.
I think that is what bothered me. After the questioning and learning part, there seemed to be a lot of common interests, enough to make several fun dates at least! Yet, the lack of instant chemistry was seen as a dealkiller to these women.

In reality, if that is their standard, I am better off not dating them. It would only be a waist of time and resources.

I don't think I push to hard, though in the past I probably did. But, today, I accept the ups and downs fairly well.

Did anybody notice the article in the Wall Street Journal earlier this week concerning how people are NOT taking time to learn about other people. They rush to judgment and often miss out on that special person.

"WSJ - 02/16/06 First Impressions Get Faster"

The author pointed out how a certain woman in 1952 received a call from a young man who had got her phone number from a buddy of his. Though she thought he seemed rather brash and self-centered, she agreed to go out with him. Early in the date he confirmed her initial impression, but as things progressed she found he was a very energetic and interesting man with a vision.

The lady was Coretta Scott King and the man was Martin Luther King.

Need I say more?

He he he,...My xh when he was my H and only separated maybe 2 weeks? Put up his profile on match. It said he was DIVORCED and a great father who had custody of his son...that he was a faith based executive who wanted to take an "appreciative" woman on a shopping spree or to the carribbean!

Wow~

He was/is the "internet bad boy" personified!

I remember we used that in court...

And I went out with a guy who was married but pretended he was NEVER MARRIED...two dates with him before I blew him outta water and he spouted the truth. Happened five days after last date that I found out. Think I washed my lips for months after that (gave him goodnight kiss after second date).

That scared me into not dating for a while.

I don't know how they screen people on the site.

I think they should make you pay more so they can do a background search to find out people's legal and marital status...like separated legally vs. lying and saying they're separated (basically same to me..they're still married) or divorced or unmarried when they're married in real life?

Peachy, could you share how you found out that guy you were dating was married?

I once went out with a guy who is 50 and recorded 40 on match. He said he wanted to date 30somethings, so he recorded himself as 40. I thought, yea, that just means he has short circuited 10 years from his brains and hasn't grown/matured. LOL!

I can't remember the name, but there is an internet dating site where they do require fairly extensive screening for members to join.

Also, I ran a background check on someone once because I had that gut feeling that something wasn't quite right. It cost me around $20, so I wouldn't want to do it all the time, but sometimes it's worth the investment. Also, you can join one of these investigation sites for a certain price and do background checks on anyone over a period of several months.

I got information like everywhere he had lived (addresses), records of marriage/divorce, children, relative's names, any felony or legal charges, bankruptcies, etc.

I was raised in a small town where most everyone knew everyone else, or at least knew someone who did. That's no longer true. And, I don't go to bars. I work in a female dominant profession (social work). So, there are limits to ways to meet guys.

Oh.....I had also gone on our State Police site that lists felons. I looked up the OW's name because I had heard she had felony charges. Sure enough, there was her birthdate and legal charge listed. And, that was a totally free search!