I support her going and doing what she needs to do but I am not ready to be part of it!

That could almost be translated into...

"I support her doing what she needs to do in recovery of our marriage, I am just not ready to do whatever it takes to recover our marriage."

Aren't you the one that had the affair?

If I'm not mistaken, the phrase "I will do WHATEVER you want if you will forgive me" comes to mind when the WS is truly sincere about marriage recovery. It doesn't appear that you are there yet.

JMHO
committed

Bum,

I hear you. Really... I do. I hate that some people treat the church like a phone booth which is one of the reasons I do not go to church anymore. God knows if you are truly faithful in your heart and you don't need to put a dollar in the offering hat to speak to him. It's a toll-free number.

The point is that maybe you should take a minute to think about what your wife is asking. In the beginning I asked my FWW if we could go to church and she said yes. I realized I was reaching out for anything that would help me understand what was going on and why this happened and I thought the church would help me find the answer. This is possibly something she is looking for.

Take a minute to think about what she is asking of you. She is looking for the man she loves - you - to help her. Right now the church might be what she thinks will help both of you. You and I may have similar thoughts about church, but what might happen if you don't go?

Mortarman and everyone else! I am Protestant if that helps you! I am ignorant when it comes to the studies of Religion. I beleive in God! As for the saved question you lose me with that one. I don't know what you are talking about. I have been in law enforcement for 10 years now and God is not a hot topic with the people I deal with. I have spoken to my wife today and she advised that she did not expect me to go to church with her. She likes to go as her time to reflect and relax. We have talked about God and I read the bible to our daughters when I am home at night (kids version)!

I just want to add that I don't think an A is as cut and dry as some ight make it out to be on this web sight. I admit what I did was very wrong! But in my defense we had longs discussions with regards to the problems in our relationship for a couple years prior to the A. Nobody wants to be alone or feel unimportant or unwanted. To many years of feeling unloved no matter how hard you plea with your W is a very painfull thing to endure. Again it does not make the A right and I am not attempting to justify it. Don't judge a man until you walk in his shoes! My wife and I will be stronger than before, this has been an eye opener for us! An eye opener for eyes that refused to open.

Bill I hear what you say to me and I understand you! Maybe because of my job or the things I see during the job or the people I have dealt with I feel very uneasy in Church. Sorry!

You are right - many things led up to the affair. Since you are in law enforcement, I assume you are an honorable man. A person with honor discusses the marriage problems with his partner, OR gets a divorce.

Bum,

I really want to help you with this problem dealing with church. But in order to do that, I will have to ask some questions and see what your answers are.

First, what do YOU believe the church is for?

While await your answer to that, let me go back to my last question...are you saved? If you are in or have been in a protestant church (as well as read the Bible to your kids), you know that there is only one way to God. And that is thru Jesus. Jesus took your place on the Cross so you didnt have to go to the Cross.

But what has to happen is in order to have Him take your place, you will have to be saved. How does that work? Well, the Christian "religion" (if you can call it that) is not church, or the Bible. They are a part of it. But you can get into Heaven without either one of those, as was witnessed by one of the two thieves that died on a cross with Jesus.

So, if it isnt church or the Bible that makes you a Christian, then what does? A Christian is a person who has a personal relationship with Jesus. He or she is a person who has accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior, realized there was no way they were going to make it in this life, let alone get into Heaven, without Him. And so they ask Jesus to take over their life. In essence, the Christian surrenders to what Jesus did on the Cross.

Church, the Bible, prayer...all of it flow from this. All of it is important. But you can go to church the rest of your life, and not make it to Heaven. You can read the Bible everyday...even memorize it, and not make it to Heaven. You can pray all day long, and not make it to Heaven. Because NONe of those things are prerequisites for getting into Heaven! Only that personal relationship with Jesus gets you there. There is NO other way.

You know, many people say they pray to God. Some Christians pray to God, even though they are not right in their lives. Guess what? God does not hear the prayers of people that are not followers of Christ. And if you are following Christ, and have back slidden, then God doesnt hear your prayers either. Non-Christians and carnal Christians can pray all day long...and it falls on deaf ears1

When I use the word "you" here, I am not pointing at you specifically. Just a part of the discussion, as I do not know your situation ith the Lord.

So, my first question was "are you sved?" If yo uare not, then right now Bum...you can be. And if you arent, tell me because if you seek to have that personal relationship with Him, then I can show you the way to meet with Him and let Him take over.

In His arms.

Mortarman & Bum,

I want to expand on what Mortarman said. Belief in Jesus is more then just saying "I believe". I agree with Mortarman points, although I think there are a few things missing. Let me give you an example:

If I have a headache & my H says "take a Tylenol & you'll feel better". If I say I believe the Tylenol will make me feel better will my headache go away? NO. I have to take the Tylenol. IN essence, saying you have belief without any action is NOT really belief. Another example: If I'm in an airplane & getting ready to jump. I say I "believe" the Para shoot will save me", but I refuse to put it on. Will it save me? NO. I must put it on in order for it save me. If you believe in your seat belt, you wear it, etc. What I am saying is that if you TRULY believe in Jesus, it will change EVERYTHING in your life - your priorities, your lifestyle, your thinking and you will want these changes because of your belief in Jesus. How can someone say they believe something & continue to live without the very thing in which they believe? They cannot. This means they don't REALLY believe.

Also, church has nothing to do with other people. The excuse of "I see other people go & they don't change their ways” or "there are hypocrites there", etc. is no excuse. Going to church isn't about what other people are doing. It is about you & your relationship with Christ. You canNOT follow what Jesus tells you to do withOUT church. It is blatantly disobeying God. For those who think they have a relationship with Jesus without church, I would like to know how you fellowship with other Christians, encourage each other, tithe, worship, etc. without church. I doubt that you do & God has commanded these things for you to do. You canNOT be a servant to Jesus if you don't follow what he says to do. It is as simple as that.

I am not trying to be harsh at all, I am trying to be honest. I used to use those excuses too, but the real fact was I didn't have a relationship with Christ because I never had the discipline to put him first. Church is a constant reminder that helps me prioritize my life. And in the end when I stand before Jesus for judgment, is Jesus going to listen to "I didn't like how other people acted" or "church is full of hypocrites", etc? Seriously, it doesn't matter what other people do, it is about your decision to follow God.

The Church is a building! Period! I have a relationship with God and I don't feel that four wooden walls with a steeple on top is the only place that the Lord graces!

The building is NOT the church, it's the people that are the church. If your BW wants you to come with her to worship God with the church I believe the best way you can show support for her situation is to worship with her.

If she lost a loved one, you would go to the funeral, right? The deceased is not there, yet you go. Not for the deceased, but to support your wife.

So go to church with her to offer that same support. Get over your resentment. I suspect none of the people in that church had a thing to do with you having to be there when you were a kid, that was your parents doing.

Man-Up and support your wife.

T

The church is a building; the church is also a body of believers which support, advise, protect, love, give, reach back and plow ahead together.

More importantly, if you have a relationship with God, and your wife has a relationship with God; is your marriage founded on God, do you put God first in your marriage? Do you (as a couple) seek His will in your decisions and daily life? Or do you steer your own ship?

Do you seek to put the Fruit of the Spirit into your lives; to express love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness & self-control at all times and in all ways that you can; striving to do better at this tomorrow than today? This isn't to say we do it, we are all human, this is to ask if it's the goal.

The Christian life is able to provide you with unlimited peace, infinite forgiveness, grace beyond measure, love beyond reason. I think that's exciting. I think that's something I want in my life. I think that's something I searched for for a long time. I think it's radical. Maybe you are attending the wrong church. (?) There are some really great contemporary places out there, still very Bible-based, for those who have been disenchanted with traditional Protestantism.

Your wife probably finds support and understanding in the church; people/pastors who help her envision the life she wants for herself/ the marriage she wants / the family she wants. God has greater things in store for us all then we can even dream of, but we must be open to them - in or out of a church building, I hope you and your wife find the common ground and support you are looking for to put God first and use His rock-solid foundation for your marriage.

God loves you and so do we,
MSA

Bum,

You are correct! It is just 4 walls. And it really doesnt matter where those four walls are. Thay could be in the backroom of a business, or at someone's house. It doesnt matter. So, I agree with you!

That being said, Want2Be is correct. If you are a Christian, then there are things that are commanded of you by Jesus. Fellowship with other believers, tithing and the other things he brought up. Now, if you do not go to "church" wherever that is, then how will you accomplish these things?

Look, I want to help you with this situation. sure, your wife says you dont have to go...but why would you do that? do you know that YOU are your wife and kids' pastor? That it is YOU that must bring them up in the Lord. It is you that your wife should come to for Bible study and for answers to her questions? You are charged with that by Jesus. Now, how in the world do you expect to be her pastor, if you do not have one? If you do not interact with one? All of us need a pastor, someone to teach and advise us in the ways of the Lord.

I go back to my original questions. What do YOU say church is for? What does God want out of a church?

And more importantly, are you a Christian? I have heard you say you believe in God...and as Want2Be said...many people believe in God. Shoot, even Satan believes in God. The question is who is Jesus in your life?

I am not be contentious! I really am trying to help. But we need to start at the beginning. There is no way you are going to understand the church thing without your relationship being being right with Christ. I am not sayng it isnt...I just want to hear what your relationship is before we proceed.

In His arms.

Bum,

All I can say is that due to my FWH's relationship with Christ am I able to begin forgiveness & begin the road towards trusting him again. Otherwise, I don't know where we would be at this point if I had my old H who was unsaved (and a consistent, continual liar - about big & small stuff).

My FWH told me that when he was saved, he realized how selfish he used to be & how much he was a "slave" to his sinful nature (lust, greed, etc). He says he feels free now. It's been a blessing. Don't miss the possible opportunity for you & your wife to have an even better marriage. My H now is a changed man & I LOVE IT! I know now he is the man I need him to be. As mortarman mentioned, he is taking the role of spiritual leader (or pastor) in our household & it's wonderful. I wouldn't go back to our old lives (even with new MB knowledge) without God. I would rather go through this pain WITH God then never have experienced it withOUT God. Knowing my husband is saved allows me to sleep at night (and I always had problems when he would be on the road or at work late because I worried he would fall asleep at the wheel & die in his sins. (He has Sleep Apnea) NOW, I HAVE PEACE!!!

BTW - I have a cousin who's husband won't take that leadership role & she tells him "I am commanded to follow you, but I am also commanded to follow God first. So, if you cannot lead this family spiritually, I cannot follow you!" I think by not stepping up in this area, you may find that it will create other issues in your marriage.

Just remember, sometimes it's not about the way you feel, but what is best for your marriage & supporting your spouse.

I hope you will answer mortarman's questions as well.

I can agree that a church is only a building and sometimes the people inside of it aren't improved for being there. I think there is something for respecting and encouraging your W's need for church. I don't know what you do in law enforcement but if my loved one was in the field, I'd need God's support.

For many years during my M, I wanted us to go to church as a family. WH never wanted to go. I didn't want to make it yet another thing that I did with the kids by myself. Sundays were about the only day we could be at home together as a family. Now, we go at Christmas. DD and I have talked about finding a church home. We live in a place that has lots of large, "Christan" churches. That doesn't appeal to us. I believe that God will lead us to a church in his time.

WH won't go near anything religious. He has nothing but derision for religion. When that changes, I will know that he is ready to come out of his A.

Support your wife. Just try it. Find a compromise. Maybe, you'll like it.

Bum – Excuses and justifications all. You know that, as a Police Officer you have probably had a daily dose of the “excuse department,” especially if you’ve ever worked Traffic. My eldest son is also a Police Office who has been serving about as long as you have, AND he is also a committed “born-again” Christian who is very involved with his local church in things like the Youth Group and the Music Ministry. BEING a cop is not an excuse either, even though it IS a fact that you get to see the “seamy side of life” on a daily basis and the results of sin in the lives of both the guilty and the innocent.

What Mortarman was asking very nicely, I will be more blunt about, simply because you continue (as the above quoted responses by you shows) to use justifications and rationalizations as “valid reasons” as to why you DO or DON’T DO certain things.

First, with respect to your affair, there is NO excuse of justification. The “Law” on it is clear….”Thou shalt not commit adultery.” Period. No excuses or justifications allowed. Ignorance of the Law is no excuse and rationalizations for WHY you willfully CHOSE to violate the law do not “excuse or justify” what you now realize was a “colossal mistake in judgment.”

What Mortarman was asking about was your relationship with Jesus Christ, not whether or not you believe there is a “God.” IF you have, at some point in your life, confessed your sins to God and accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, you ARE a Christian. You may still be a “babe in Christ” despite your chronological age, but once someone has truly acknowledged Jesus as THE Messiah and accepted him into their life as their personal LORD and Savior, they ARE “born-again” and the Holy Spirit indwells them permanently. A believer can also still sin and can “backslide.” Forgiven by God does not mean that you are now “perfect and incapable of sinning.”

So, the question that Mortarman asked is still relevant. It does not matter if you consider yourself a Protestant, or whatever. It matters if you have personally invited Jesus into your life as your Lord and Savior. If you have, then THE issue remaining is your concept of what it MEANS to be a Christian and how you should be living your life as a result of what Christ did on the Cross for YOU.

In short, it means that we SURRENDER our will to God’s will out of love and humble obedience to HIS sovereignty in our lives. HE, not we, sits on the throne. IF there is occasional conflict in what we “Feel” or “want to do or not do,” we surrender those feelings to God and simply OBEY His commands and teaching no matter what we are feeling. THAT is NO DIFFERENT than what Jesus himself did in the Garden of Gethsemene when he surrendered his desire to avoid the death on the Cross to the Father’s will of what was necessary and needed.

If you were “Hurt” by your childhood experience with going to church, only confronting that pain and dealing with it will be the way to overcome that pain. NOT going to church because you “can commune with God anywhere” is both TRUE and an excuse. It is “twisting” a truth to justify your willful choice to disobey the command to “not forsake the gathering together of the saints.” There is much to be gained from church attendance. Tell me, how hard do you think it is for a Betrayed Spouse to stay with a spouse who has been adulterous? How hard is it to forgive someone? IF God has forgiven you an unpayably huge debt at the cost of Jesus dying in your stead, don’t you think a little “uncomfortableness” in attending church ONE or TWO whole hours per week is a “not too much to ask in return for those who profess to love God?”

Bum, God has established you as the Spiritual Head of your Household, as Christ’s “stand-in.” Either you accept that role, or you fight against God’s command. Either way, God will let you. But consider this, there ARE consequences for all of our choices. Part of “being” a Christian is the desire to learn what the Will of God is and how to implement it in our lives. This “learning process” is what “conforms our lives” to that of more and more “Christ-likeness. It’s called the process of Sanctification, and it continues throughout our lives.

But one thing is certain, God is not something you put on a shelf and just take down every now and then when you think it might serve your purpose. Christianity is a “way of life.” It is a “transformed life.” It is a “new creation, behold the old has gone, the new has come.” It is change from the “inside out.”


God bless.

((Bum)),

“””Bill I hear what you say to me and I understand you! Maybe because of my job or the things I see during the job or the people I have dealt with I feel very uneasy in Church. Sorry!”””

I understand, there are times when I truly didn’t know how to walk into church. My background is one of military service, some law enforcement, private security, then as a professional, then as a professional and lay speaker (which is a substitute preacher), and now back to simply being a professional and a worshiper. I can tell you that there were two hard periods for me to attend church during. The first was during my military/law enforcement years for not only during those years was I subjected to all the worst aspects of life but I myself was also full of pride and ego during those years. In the military they trained us to be that way and I followed like a good little soldier. Then when I got out and hung around all the people in law enforcement, which in my case were truly not the best influences, my ego and pride were fed. That whole lifestyle came at a price for me and it was my relationship with God. I, myself, missed that and knew there was something else for me. I took the necessary steps to get right and that included many tough choices of friends. The other time that I struggled was after some extremely depressing times in my life where I made some poor choices almost two years ago. I struggled. It took courage and total humility for me to walk into church but I did this. It helped me to forgive myself and ask God for His forgiveness. That didn’t happen because the church was a building. It happened because of the people who make up the church. The old lady who smiled at me when I couldn’t smile towards myself. The stranger who reached out his hand for me, when I couldn’t reach myself. The immersion in all that is good. During that time I also had to deal with me, as you need to with yourself, and that was definitely aided by the people I was with and the sermons I heard. Today, life is good. And yes, I do go to church but that has changed a little as well. I tried several out and found one that fit.

“””I have spoken to my wife today and she advised that she did not expect me to go to church with her.”””

Curious, why do you think she had a change of heart? Do you believe that she truly doesn’t want you to go? I’m willing to gamble she didn’t have a change of heart but rather released the dream that you would sit with her, so she’s going into withdrawal with the matter. Want to be her knight in shining armor, be dressed in your Sunday best and choose to go with her. Choose to take the role as the spiritual leader of your family as God has commanded you to do. Choose, you are no longer forced….

“””Don't judge a man until you walk in his shoes!”””

That’s correct but with a clarification just like when you’re dealing with criminals. We can’t judge the events that led to their crimes (bad marriage, bad childhood, abuse, etc.) however their crimes stand on their own. It boils down to choices. A criminal doesn’t have money for gas so he does a drive through at the pump, a partner isn’t happy in marriage so they cheat. I think you’ll find the body of people around here very knowledgeable on matters of affairs and all of us, for the most part, believe that it took two to lead the marriage to the point where it wasn’t affair proof. However, all of us, including those who cheated, place responsibility of the affair firmly where it belongs and that is on the adulterer.

“””My wife and I will be stronger than before”””

By all means, please tell us how you plan on doing so? What specific steps are y’all taking to be stonger?

ForeverHers & LostHusband - EXCELLENT POSTS!

Bum, did you leave us?

I wouldn't be surprised if he did. A lot of people here seem to be trying to cram God and church down his throat. Give him a break. He wanted help with his wife... not with God. He made it clear that he has faith. Ease up on him. It's obvious he's getting aggravated with everyone on their soapbox preaching. Start listening to what he has to say rather than telling him what to see?



You've made your point about why he should go. Quit reciting scripture to him. Remember, he's coming to us for help, not for preaching. If he wanted preaching he would go to church.

It seems like there are three big topics that can never be discussed openly without stirring up the waters... politics, religion, and porn. Well, I've seen two of those brought up a lot on these boards and it never seems to get very far.

Now, I know. Before you say, "What did you expect when Church is in the title?" I just want to point out that you guys have made your point to him. But rather than helping you seem to be pushing him away because he doesn't see it your way. Try talking to him from an agnostic's point of view. Maybe then he will listen because you won't sound like extremists.

OK... now those who feel like bashing me go right ahead. I'm pretty thick skinned today.

“””Quit reciting scripture to him.”””

There was only one post on this whole thread that directed any scripture and it wasn’t by me. I and others offered advice from many different angles, as former military members (as to relate to him in his career), as people who were forced to go to church, as many things, but one way a Christian cannot offer advice is as an Agnostic. I don’t think anyone was preaching to him. We see him hurting. He admitted that he didn’t think he could ever forgive himself for what he has done. I see that as a cry for help. His wife has offered him an answer that could serve many different purposes, one that would not only relieve that pain but also fill emotional needs in the marriage.

“””OK... now those who feel like bashing me go right ahead.”””

No reason to bash anyone over a difference of opinion.

Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers…….

I don’t suppose you read my buddy KillerJoe’s reply before it was deleted, was it Agnostic advice…?

Hopeful4future,

I think each of us can ONLY give advice based on our OWN experiences. I did quote scripture and gave advice based on my H who was agnostic & is now saved. I have been a Christian since age 6 so how could I give a point of view I don't have AND don't understand? I think that is what this board is for - for individuals to come together & give their perspective based on their own experiences. That's all a person can do. Some advice helps & other advice doesn't. You take it for what it is. I would hope you wouldn't have such a hostile attitude about the advice given from a Christian point of view. Besides, if Bum's wife did want him to go to support her would you tell him he should ignore his wife's needs because of his own resentment or should he do something for his wife's sake? I thinkt that was the main point anyway, but if he got something positive from it - that would be wonderful too.

Now, I do quote scripture in my signature, but that is because those are the verses (after studying the book of James) that brought my husband to me to tell him the truth about his A's. So, it's a verse that matters to me.

I did say something... with the following in an earlier post: