Hi, I have 3 sons, 22, 21 and 15. All three of them individually have told me they don't see their dad is working on the M, only myself. I read books, post here, talk to them about it. The boys wanted to speak to their dad about it, he put them off for over a month. In the meanwhile, our MC advised that if WH wouldn't talk to them, I should and I have. Of course, I can only give my side of the tale and I do say the reason he provided me with, which is that I didn't support his efforts when he wanted to leave his job (which was very unstable for many yrs) as a Project Mgr. to buying a delivery truck and becoming an independant FedEx home delivery person, taking over 30% pay cut. My pt to him at the time is why don't you look for a comparable position elsewhere before you are laid off? He didn't feel he had the qualifications to do this and thus felt unsupported by me, put down by comments I made about him delivering pkgs (I was angry, no excuse but true) for a living. He found support elsewhere <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> .

Fast foward, he bought a business 1.5yrs into his A in our home state w/o my support, with our $. This has led to considerable financial strain. After much ado, including my priest urging me to try to help WH overcome his problems, I sell the house and move to Ohio. More stress and strain on sons, especially youngest. All three upset over leaving what they consider their home. I find out that A is still on after I'm here and bought a house, my name only as the business is in terrible shape. Middle son finds out about A, doesn't tell us but has a breakdown at school, drops out of college. I find out he knows in July, he hates his dad for what he has done, has no respect for him, etc.. Bc of the financial situation, older sons cannot go to college, $ is gone, can't co-sign a loan for them bc overextended on credit due to finances. Eldest son has moved back to Ohio at the end of May and worked for business, pretty much full-time w/o pay. To say the least, he is angry. I gather all three of them are upset with me bc I didn't protect their well-being financially and emotionally from my WH. In many ways WH has changed, but in many ways he hasn't. He thinks, eats and sleeps the business. Due to the financial situation, it is a large part of our lives but we only talk about us or our M right before any MC session. Or if I bring it up, which I rarely do now as I have pretty much given up.

I guess I am leaning towards leaving him after the holidays and moving back to NJ, not only bc of my sons, but I have friends there and the economy is much better there. I feel like I chose to come here to keep the family intact, if there was any hope of doing so, and my own family is here in case we D. My family all have their own lives and I pretty much just work. I work on my own job, the business, our house. That's about it. Sometimes my brother, who is gravely ill, is in the hospital so I make time to spend with him and I see my siblings there.

I just wonder, if my own kids don't think he is trying, think less of me for being in the M, should I shake myself up and smell the coffee? My MC told me I have a problem with seeing reality, so I question whether I just want my M so bad I don't see the forest for the trees. Any thoughts?

Well, the WS usually doesn't try very hard so soon after the affair ending. It has ended, right?

I think I would give it more time.

Hmmm, kids are VERY in tune to what's happening between parents. When my mother was in MC with my step-father, my sister kept telling my mom that he wasn't changing (she was 15 & I was no longer at home). She said he was the same & faking it in front of her & MC. My mom didn't believe her because she couldn't see it for herself. Well, it turns out my sister was right. He was faking the changes in front of my mom, but behind her back, he was the same or even worse. Just some food for thought.

Also, it doesn't make sense that you take the responsibility for not protecting your kids well-being financially and emotionally from my WH HOWEVER, you did NOT enthusiatically agree to his business venture. How can you be responsible when he did this without your enthusiastic consent? I think he was selfish when he made the decision about this business, then he make excuses for himself for his behavior (saying you weren't supportive). If you read the MB principles, unless both enthusiatically agree to something, then you don't do it. Sounds like he's not very supportive of you & your opinions when he disregards them as he did.

First, I suggest you stop letting him put the blame on you for everything (money, job, support). You have let him manipulate you into thinking it's all your fault. As for the MC & staying together, only you can make that decision. Maybe some tough love is in order.

Hi,

Believer, the A supposedly ended 14 months ago. I know he at least tried to put something on our work computer 12 months ago that you can call and speak over the computer...don't know if NC actually ended 14 months ago.

Want2BStrong, I agree that kids are intuitive. My eldest said that that family seems more like a business relationship than anything else. He says it that family life is non-existent and my WH only thinks and talks about the business. It is interesting about your sister...my sons, especially the middle S, don't believe that my WH wants to change, or is trying to change. They are going through a lot of emotions now, which is stirring things up for me. I asked my eldest what would it look like to him if he thought my WH was changing and he said groveling, begging forgiveness, wanting to spend time with the family, individually and together.

I guess I hold back emotionally as I can't seem to stop replaying the e-mails in my head, the words of my WH stating he doesn't love me, is only w/me for financial reasons and will leave as soon as he can. He told her he felt like a ******, and she replied that he was. She also said "don't you think I can take care of you?" I never wanted a relationship where I took care of him, and he certainly has never taking care of me, even when I've been sick while pregnant with our third son! I look back after his first A and think I was fooling myself all along wanted him to love me so bad...he told me he stayed bc he thought it was the "right thing to do".

I got the ILY but INILWY speech in 01/03, almost three years ago....I've gotten the I want a D, I don't think this will work, we don't have anything in common speech while he live in OH and continued his A, all the while my crying and begging him to stay. Now that he has, I don't believe him if he does say he loves me, I figure he says that to keep me here and he figures it is the right thing to do. I am at a loss...he thinks everything is fine with us...ou are right about the blame, I tend to take responsibility for WH and our sons issues. During the A WH used that and convinced me that our M was all of my fault. How do BS ever get over all this 'stuff?

<<Bump>> Anyone?

It makes no difference why they stay, just so they stay. I know it doesn't really boost your self-esteem though.

Will he spend 15 hours a week doing fun things with you?
I would start that to help rebuild some positive feelings.

Also are you spending lots of energy finding things to admire about him? That is a must.

I am going to take some type of contrary role in my post to you...one reason is that I don't really understand what you are saying....and so it is for clarification....

and also I see some red flags in your actions....and since we can't do a hoot about your husbands choices...maybe and sometimes looking at YOUR actions/role and changing what you can...illicits change in others...

so bear with me....
and please clarify and correct me where necessary..

you title your post that your sons don't think he is working on YOUR marriage...and I have concerns about two grown men having input on actions of their dads that are between you and he....

that they it is a short slippery slope in which children go from children to confindants.....accessing information which confuses their role as child/father/son...and puts them in situations of automatic side choosing of one parent or another...

in other words I am not clear on what you and your sons are discussing to prompt all threee to independantly have the same answer of your husband their dad not doing marriage work.....

and i am not clear what roles have been taken on in you talking to your sons about your marriage....

can you clarify that...

Middle son finds out about A, doesn't tell us but has a breakdown at school, drops out of college. I find out he knows in July, he hates his dad for what he has done, has no respect for him, etc..

what does this mean..why does son away at college break down only to be forced to return to place of the pain in the first place....

how does son find out about affair..
who tells him...
what does dad SAY to him upon finding out...

and what is your plan and your role in son hating dad...

how can this son who hates his father ever be an objective advisor or advocate of you two reconcilling...


Eldest son has moved back to Ohio at the end of May and worked for business, pretty much full-time w/o pay.

why make son work for company for no pay..
how does that make sense..
let the company fail before using son as slave labor....

He thinks, eats and sleeps the business. Due to the financial situation, it is a large part of our lives but we only talk about us or our M right before any MC session. Or if I bring it up, which I rarely do now as I have pretty much given up.

what does this mean..
what is the reality of this business thriving
what is the reality of husband doing business to care for family..
what is the reality of husband working for x amount of time so there is great family financial reward....

what is the truth....

what happens when you talk to husband

when was the last time you told your husband you were proud of his hard work...

when was the last time you offered your husband a soft place to land...

is your life and home a husband divided against his wife and children....because wife and children are all so angry and hurt by husbands actions....

what is your plan to rebuild marriage
to regain intimacy..
to create form and nurture partnership....
etc etc etc


who helps husband see hope....

I never wanted a relationship where I took care of him, and he certainly has never taking care of me, even when I've been sick while pregnant with our third son! I look back after his first A and think I was fooling myself all along wanted him to love me so bad...he told me he stayed bc he thought it was the "right thing to do".

what does this mean..what is your issue about not wanting to care for husband...there is great love and intimacy when we are vulnerable enough to be care for...and to be cared for.....

what is this wall you have....

How do BS ever get over all this 'stuff?

one way is to focus on the positive..
one way is to let go of some of the past afronts....

nobo..
what is your plan to rebuild and re-create a new marriage...

your plan to divorce is a road lined with bitterness, resentment, and division....and no legal papers are going to fix any of those things....

lots to think about...

ARK

No, I don't think we even spend one hour doing fun things, separate or together, just work! I work out of the business (telecommute) for my company in NJ, so we are together a lot, but not quality.

As far as admiring him, I try to give him compliments, I do have to remind myself though and I'm sure there is room for improvement. I also am worried that the stress of the finances and business is going to make him crack, not that WS's are all there to begin with!

Ark,

All good questions, I can see that there are holes in the information.

My middle son found out a year ago while snooping in my dresser. He found cell phone bills and printed e-mails. I found out after p.u. his papers in his room granting a medical withdrawel from school in April '05. I also found a letter describing what he knew and how disappointed and angry he was with his dad. I made the call to a family therapist soon after. My WH and I have been in counseling since then. During conversations in October with my two sons separately, they asked me a lot of questions, voiced their confusion and hurt and disappointment to me, I listened. My role in the past was to fix everthing, this time I told our MC. He told my WH that our sons were in crisis, that there wasn't a perfect time to talk to the two of them together and he had to do it ASAP. He told him he had one shot to do it right and he should be honest with everything. In the MC's words, he was trying to light a fire under my WH. Our MC said that if WH didn't answer their questions, I should as they deserve answers. The two eldest were making up stories to fit the situations at this point bc they had little actual knowledge. Problem was, he didn't do it for over a month. The two oldest knew he was going to talk to them via me and they waited, becoming more upset. I spoke to them individually and answered factual questions, not the why's etc., as only WH knows these as per our MC advised. After the conversation between WH and the two eldest, I was told via WH that sons only wanted to talk about themselves and what they wanted to see happen. Via my sons, my WH never apologized to them for the pain he caused them or me, didn't show remorse, blamed everyone else, inc. me, and didn't take personal responsibility for his actions. This was Thanksgiving weekend.

As far as the business goes, it is not financially doing well and has caused our good credit to go down the tubes. We have creditors calling several times a day. The reality is that the business is my WH's life, he substituted the business for the OW. My youngest son has cried to me that he doesn't understand why my WH doesn't come home at night and just stays at work. Due to the finances, WH rationalizes it. There isn't any plan for him to work x amount of time, he just works. During our MC our therapist has tried to get him to address the work part, but to no avail. I understand part of it is the finances, and I appreciate his work towards that end, but part of it is avoidance. Our eldest works for free as we financially can't pay him.

I used to help see WH hope, during all the time he said there wasn't any, saw someone else, continued to lie to me. I even tried tremendously after second d-day, read HNHN, Dear Peggy, contacted Peggy Vaughn, Steve Harley, went to on-going IC...WH had very limited answers to my A questions, didn't remember, etc., honesty wasn't there. I was running out of hope in June, desparate to save M but just wore out emotionally. In July I told him he had to start being more honest and open with me, he said he would but put off our A talk until almost Labor day.

Ark, you are right about the wall, I refused to see that he didn't really love me and stayed anyways before. As far as giving support to WH, I believe I do but in the past it was more mothering than as a partner, I am trying to learn to care as a partner, need improvement.

I rarely talk to my WH, there is always someone around or at night he is tired and goes to sleep while watching TV. WH's pet peeve is for me to bring up relationship talk at night. In the morning his phone is ringing, even if we talk his mind isn't focused on anything but what he needs to get done.

I had plans, learned them through Dr. Phil's Relationship Rescue, HNHN, printed the questionaires on this website and filled them out, asked WH to fill them out, he never had the time, now he doesn't remember that I even asked him to fill them out. I threw them away a few months ago...

My basic issue is that the first time after an A he stayed bc he thought it was the right thing to do, there wasn't any MC, no apologies, no admiting he made a mistake, basically I don't love you anymore. He had an EA in Syracuse, NY when we lived there about 12 years ago, I found out two years ago. He thought it wasn't a big deal bc they didn't have sex. This time he tells the OW he doesn't love me and is only staying for financial reasons. It has been one sided about me wanting the marriage and WH conceding to staying. He doesn't tell me he loves me, most of the time he forces himself to show me affection. In September our MC said it was obvious by the fact that neither wanted to hurt the other that we had passion for each other and my WH said someting clicked, that it took someone from the outside to see it. I'm not sure what he saw...he just repeated what the therapist said.

Am I bitter? Yes, more at myself than at him. He has always been the way he is, it has only been my perception of him that wasn't real. I still love him but I think there does come a time where a BS can only do so much, yet there is a small part of me that wonders...now that is crazy!

<<bump>>

Via my sons, my WH never apologized to them for the pain he caused them or me, didn't show remorse, blamed everyone else, inc. me, and didn't take personal responsibility for his actions. This was Thanksgiving weekend

did you tell your husband this....