First a little background about myself. I have been separated for seven months now. My W and I have been married for 17 years and have two children. She had several PA's and EA's throughout our M but I didn't find out until about four years ago. I spent a year trying to work things out to keep our M alive...mainly working on myself but also trying to include W. She didn't really have the motivation to get involved so then my attention turned toward staying together for the kids sake. After another year she once again got involved in another A (with the same guy she had the last one with). That was in November 2004 (actually on my birthday) and I had decided that was enough! I began w/drawing and had plans on moving out and filing for D at the beginning of the summer. I filed and she has finally signed all of the paperwork after months of wasting time. Our D hearing is scheduled for January 4th.

During the last three years a female co-worker and myself became good friends. She knew about my M problems and she shared dissatisfactions from her own M with me. We spent the majority of that time really trying to help each other. Many e-mails were used for venting, comforting and offering advice...just being there for each other. Needless to say we became the best of friends during that time. By the time the Spring of 2005 rolled around we had developed deep feelings for each other. For the past eight months we have been seeing each other and have actally fallen in love. We both new I was done with my M and we also felt the same way about her's.

Here's the problem. Recently she has had some reconsideration about her M. They have been separated for several months and the closer time has gotten to the end of the year they are both starting to wonder if they are doing the right thing. She still loves me very much but wonders if their M has actually been given the proper chance it needs. She and her H have several issues that they must change about themselves for it to work but they aren't sure that they can actually accomplish those things and stick to it. I know that probably the proper thing for me to do is to let her go but I have gained such strong loving feelings for her! She has been such a blessing to me from the beginning of our friendship through the present time so it is just so hard to turn her loose. She can't find it in her to end our relationship either because she "loves me so much" and "loves being with me". How do we handle this situation? Anyone been here before and have some advice they can give? Thanks!

I haven't been there but...

Make sure she knows how much you care for her - let her know that.

Then I think you need to let her figure this one out. If you pressure her, it will drive her away. If you show her understanding and patient, she will probably love you even more. The bottom line, work with her.

I do have a question? Does she have children at home?

Oh...she does know my feelings for her. As a matter of fact she has said she believes I love her more than her H. I have been giving her space to figure things out. Maybe that's why I am here seeking advice.

I noticed that you and I have some things in common...long M, WW multiple A's, etc. We must have shopped at the same store for our first W's.

Sorry I forgot to answer your question. No she does not have any children but wants to one day.

I can relate to that, not as being involved in an affair as you are, but in picking someone unhealthy while you are unhealthy. You were married 17 years, by most professional standards you should wait atleast 3 years before dating. Part of the reason they suggest that is so that you have time to get healthy and therefore you can make healthy choices. That obviously didn't happen and you made an unhealthy choice and now you are in love with your affair partner. Be a big boy and end your affair immediately. If you can avoid it have absolutely no contact with your affair partner. Then realize that because you probely haven't finished grieving the loss of your marriage, that you are going to have to do that and grieve the loss of your affair relationship. Then take time to heal before getting involved again and for the love God, don't get involved with a married woman....

Well, I call it like I see it. You're having an affair, you're the OM.

Why on earth would you come to a marriage BUILDING site looking for assistance with your AFFAIR with a MARRIED woman?

Here's my advice. End your relationship with the MARRIED woman. Let her either repair or end her marriage. You should have NO PART IN THAT.

Spend some time thinking about your own values and integrity. You're still married and should not be starting new relationships. From the timeline you've given us, you started this affair eight months ago, and just got separated seven months ago -- hmmm, ever consider that you're done working on your marriage because of YOUR AFFAIR?????

I find it amazing that after enduring the pain of your wife's affairs, that you have no boundries about getting involved while YOU are STILL MARRIED, and with a woman who is also MARRIED.

Sheeeshhhh...

Thanks for your response Losthusban. In response to you, I did become healthy re: my 17 year M. I have been happy it is over with the exception of our kids. It wasn't just the fact that Ex cheated on me multiple times. She was done w/ our M a long time ago and when there is only one working on the relationship, there is not much grieving to handle. The woman I am with now actually came after me. Like I said before, we talked and e-mailed to no end about our M's and felt they were both over and done with. I hadn't been with anyone intimately for years so I know I went into this relationship with blinders on. It wasn't the smartest thing to do but we were both assured that our M's were done. We have been discussing the option of ending it and that is probably what is going to happen. Believe me...I have already thought about not getting involved with a M woman ever again.

Question: Why is the "healing time" for 17 years of M set for 3 years? In my case when you are with someone who doesn't care about you or the M for as long as I was, I felt pretty healed very quickly. There is no way I was waiting that long to move on with my life.

Thanks for responding Lexxxy. You're right. What the heck was I thinking coming here for a problem like that. I am sorry to you and any others who I have offended. You are right about my audacity to do to someone else what was done to me but like I said before...we were both sure our M's were done. I did go into this too early in her case. I however was DONE with my M. My ex has been out of our M for years. She did nothing to help repair what was damaged so yes, I was ready to move on.

Re: Spend some time thinking about your own values and integrity. You're still married and should not be starting new relationships. From the timeline you've given us, you started this affair eight months ago, and just got separated seven months ago -- hmmm, ever consider that you're done working on your marriage because of YOUR AFFAIR?????

I was done with my M as of last January but wasn't physically able to leave until June. I understand why you would think that my relationship now could be what would keep me from repairing my M but that is not the case. I made sure I was finished before moving on and like I stated earlier, she thought she was done as well. As I replied to Losthusband, I have been healed from my situation. I guess as it turns out the woman I have been with for the last eight months wasn't and she didn't even know it.

Again, I apologize to you and anyone else I have offended.

“””In response to you, I did become healthy”””

So by saying that you are saying that you have forgiven your wife and hold no anger or bitterness towards her. Further you are saying that your eyes and heart were and are healthy enough to make wise decisions, thus saying that it is in your nature to date married women… I don’t think so.

“””when there is only one working on the relationship, there is not much grieving to handle.”””

Actually, hate to say it but that couldn’t be further from reality. When you are the only one working on it and when there are multiple affairs then you do have a lot of healing to do. And likely you harbor a lot of negative feeling.

“””Like I said before, we talked and e-mailed to no end about our M's and felt they were both over and done with.”””

That sounds like an affair to me and almost text book of how they start. Heck, your wife could have typed the exact same thing.

“””Why is the "healing time" for 17 years of M set for 3 years?”””

I don’t know that there are any ‘set’ standards. Most books you read will advise to wait 1 year for each year of marriage. In my own life, without thinking about that, I found that to be fairly true.

“””There is no way I was waiting that long to move on with my life.”””

Moving on with ones life doesn’t necessarily mean dating….. Here is my little attempt at unraveling the grieving process…..


I believe that it is widely accepted that one will go through and must go through a natural healing process after the loss of a spouse whether it be due to death or divorce. Add to that the outside circumstances surrounding the loss, whether it be infidelity or abuse or whatever, and there truly can be a lot of external issues to deal with before dealing with all the internal issues surrounding the loss.

Below, I believe you’ll find the standard accepted model of the grieving process:

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression
5. Acceptance

Steps 4 and 5 are where I’m going to place my emphasis. I believe that completing steps 4 and 5 are instrumental in having a successful relationship. Let’s look at them individually for just a moment:

4. Depression. This is the hopeless phase where anger, betrayal, resentments, and grief dwell. People my focus their grief inward and begin hating themselves, they may drink or do drugs as a means to cope. Or what I find more likely is that they date and engage in casual sex in an attempt to feel “normal” again.

5. Acceptance. This is when healing is completing, you notice that I didn’t say it was complete. In very humble opinion Step 5 is an action step. This is where one let’s go of the anger and bitterness towards others, as well as any towards themselves. This is where we have forgiveness.

My belief is that, at some point, you will have to go through all these steps. Now when you introduce a relationship in during Step 4, which a lot of people do, that displaces some of that anger and resentment. I’ve also believe that left undealt with that it then seeps out slowly and has an impact on how we deal with our partner. And who gets the brunt of our acting out, yes the one we love whether they deserve it or not.

So back to my statement, this is the point at which either a second relationship will fail, be miserable, or a person will make the decision to work through their grieving process towards recovery. It’s why most mental health people, after getting someone out of immediate danger if present, then go back and start looking for “unfinished” business in their lives. What they’ve masked or replaced.

That being said, do I believe that dating early dooms someone for failure, absolutely not. Especially if done with a keen awareness of self, where you are at in the process, a willing partner, and an effort to seek the end on Step 5. But along with that ray of hope there is also a cloud of negativity and that is how capable of choosing a good partner is someone going through depression? It’s an interesting thought and I have seen basic scenario’s:

1. They aren’t capable and latch on to whatever they can get and ride it for whatever it’s worth. Typically coming out at the end worse for the wear and now working through grieving the loss of relationship A and beginning the grieving of relationship B. And heck, they may even end up getting healthy through this relationship then look at who they are dating and say WTF am I doing with this loser.

2. They do have an awareness of self and see qualities in a partner that will not only help them through their process but also be a stellar mate when said process is complete. They are transparently open and honest with their partner and themselves through the early stage of the relationship which in of itself breeds an understanding of each other that is crucial in maintaining a healthy relationship. They come out in the end as a strong healthy person to find that they have a strong healthy relationship based on openness, willingness, and honesty.

I will say that option 2, as presented above, is what I believe to be not the norm but the exception. I, myself, got stuck on #4 of the grieving process for over 2 years. Once I plowed through it, step #5 came quickly and was welcomed. Had I chose to get involved in a relationship during that 2 year period, I firmly believe that I would either be grieving the loss of another relationship or in an extremely unhealthy relationship.

In an ideal world, we wouldn’t have to deal with this, but other than that people would wait till they were done grieving before venturing back out. But that’s not reality and is not often practiced. Many who post on these boards expand on the need to finish grieving as well as how clouded ones vision can become in a ‘rebound’ style relationship.

1confused,
I'm not offended, just want you to look at the situation clearly.

As much as you might care for this woman, its my opinion that it should end so that she can deal with her marriage. That should have happened first.

It sounds as though you have dealt with yours and you will be divorced in January -- don't even consider dating until you're done with all of that.

You might have been sure that the marriages were done, but how about OWH? Does he get the benefit of knowing everything you know about his marriage??? I strongly suspect you haven't gotten the real truth from her, and neither has her husband.

1confusedguy:

You're not going to get a lot of sympathy or empathy on here about committing adultery - no matter the circumstances. And many on here were WS's who now spend their valuable personal time in trying to help others. It's a diverse group working toward a common goal. This entire board takes the view of "It is what it is" when it comes to adultery, marriage, etc. Direct communication as Lexxxy suggested is the norm on here.



You both learned a valuable lesson as well. Divorce signals the end of any marriage. Nothing else.


Then you should've divorced and moved on. Many, many terrible marriages have been saved due at least indirectly to info gathered on this board. Thus the overall conviction: "Until you're legally divorced - you're still married and it's still adultery".


Pretty much everyone on here will question whether you are truly healed enough to begin another relationship - as proven by falling for another married person. Undoubtedly you think you are - but the results stand. How about your kids? Her kids? What do you think their life is like? If you're "healed" then certainly you would be considering how all of this affects yours and MGF's kids!

I feel sure you'll get plenty of responses on here.

Good luck.

FR

I appreciate everyone's thoughts and advice. I know everyone here has had to deal with their own personal M problems and have gained a lot of good experiences to share in dealing with them.

Losthusband - I do feel that I have dealt with each one of those steps of the healing process and the acceptance came this summer after I moved on. I have no regrets except for my kids. I have accepted what she did and harbor no ill feelings. I am not just say this to convince myself that I am done. I am the type of person who will give 110% in whatever I beleive in and am passionate about and I gave my Ex at least four years of dedication. But once a period of time has passed and I can see there will be no change, I just completely quit, wash my hands of the situation and don't look back. I have given everything I could and know that I did. This summer is when I realized this. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge in the healing process.

Lexxxy - I agree with you. GF dealing with her M should have came first but we really did think we were both done. As far as GFH being privy to everything about his M, he does think something is going on but hasn't said or done much to fight it. He is young and a little immature and is concerned much of the time only with partying and having a good time with his friends. Regardless, I agree he does need to know about what is going on in his M but it is not my place to tell him. GF and I began our friendship a long time ago on the basis of openness and honesty and have stuck to it no matter what so I think she has been honest with me about this situation.

Fishracer - I am not looking for empathy or sympathy here just a little guidance from people who have dealt with their own personal M problems. I appreciate all thoughts and comments whether they bash me or not. I am not proud of what I have gotten myself into just looking for the best way to handle things. Yes GF and I did learn a valuable lesson in this. I know that I don't ever want to get involved with a M woman again.
Re: "Then you should've divorced and moved on." I have two young children and I felt it was in their best interest to not move out until they were out of school for the summer.
Re: "Pretty much everyone on here will question whether you are truly healed enough to begin another relationship - as proven by falling for another married person. Undoubtedly you think you are - but the results stand. How about your kids? Her kids? What do you think their life is like? If you're "healed" then certainly you would be considering how all of this affects yours and MGF's kids!" I do feel I was healed (see reply to Losthusband above). My kids are as fine as can be from going through D'ing parents. They have only been around GF twice very briefly and don't know the difference. GF doesn't have kids.