Ok, I found out for sure that my wife is still talking to the OM. I found out by putting a recorder in her car. I recorded her telling another friend that she had spoke to the OM about going out after work with other coworkers. She said that they (OM and my wife) said they were going out and that they didn’t need permission from me or his girlfriend.

I know that he didn’t go, but that doesn’t really matter. She has promised that she wasn’t having any contact with him at work and it would appear that she is willing to continue the affair.

My question is, should I confront her with this new knowledge, or just go ahead and file for divorce. I’m not doing a plan b, that’s not an option for me. If I tell her that I know for sure that she is still speaking with the OM, I will have to explain how I know. So far that hasn’t worked for me. I have called the attorney and told him to go ahead and file the papers. The question is, should I tell her why I made this decision?

Why is Plan B not an option?

Susan

Can’t advice you what to do but I do have a view on one item:

This isn’t a law court. You don’t have to provide untainted proof. You just have to be sure in your cause. Therefore if (or rather when) you confront your wife you don’t have to pull out the recorder. Just say you were told by someone you believe that wife was going out with co-workers and planned on meeting OM. You know this for a fact.

Of course she will deny. So? You know the truth.

Remove the recorder for a couple of days. She will certainly suspect something and do a search.

It goes without saying that right now you phone the OM GF.

Grove,
NO WAY should you reveal your source. Once she knows-she will stop talking in the car, and I think you might need more proof or evidence further down the road.
I would tell her that you have all the facts you need to file for divorce, and you are proceeding. I think if you file, she will immediately say she wants to work on the marriage, and you will need to use the recorder to verify there is no contact.
Expose to OM GF, and be ready for all ****** to break loose. Work on your list on actions that she will have to perform if she really wants the divorce to stop-new job, move-whatever you need to save the marriage- have them ready.
She has been cake eating, and has an attitude that she is entitled to do whatever she wants, because she comes home to a husband that loves her and her daughter. I think she will change her tune once she see that you are serious.
Since she is a teacher, she is home now too....perhaps the recorder could be hidden soemwhere in the house when you are not there....
I'm sorry you are going through this now....

Don't give up your source. Remove the recorder, and tell her you know for a fact. Don't get into a "discussion" of how you know.

I would tell her she needs to quit her job and write a no contact letter.

She will try to turn this around and argue. Don't fall for it. She knows what you are saying is true.

I got into too many arguments with my WH when I caught him. It destroys your love for the WS. Just tell her she's been busted, and do what you are going to do.

The affair and the relationship will never be over as long as she continues to work with him. That's just my honest opinion from my personal experience.

But, what is your goal? Do you still want the marriage? Are you ready to give her up? Are you filing the papers because you are ready to divorce her? Or because you are hurt and angry over the new discovery?

Susan

it comes down to this ..are you through or not?

If you feel you can still fight for your M what is your plan to do so?

Why has your current plan to save your M failed? what worked what didn't?

It seems to me you did a partial Plan A BUT LB'ed a lot - thats the impression I get reading your posts - and then wonder why the Affair didn't just sputter out?

Plan b done correctly would really put the pressure on your ww..if you think your WW is going to feel pressure by being served..well maybe..or she may just chuck the towel in and walk away.

As I said gove it depends .. have you had it & want out?

if not please do seek some info on plan B after a good plan A --- ww can't help but compare being with you & being without you.

hope it works out for you grove.

I am both hurt/angry and willing to give up. This has been an ongoing saga for me for too long.

I will tell her that I know for sure that she is still having contact with the OM and that I have filed for divorce. If she is truly willing to make the marriage work, I will consider staying, but that it would require a no contact letter and a new job before I would ever consider staying in the marriage.

I will contact the OM's girlfriend after Christmas.

One question. Do I tell her before Christmas??? This might ruin Christmas for my daughter and our family?

Will you be able to keep from ruining Christmas knowing what you know if you wait until after Christmas?

I can't tell you what to do there. I think the timing will have to be your decision.

Susan

grove

making such important decisions while hurt & angry - justified or not - may not be wise.

Can you ask your lawyer to process the forms and hold on until after New year?
If you can I would recommend you confront your WW and simply say " you know she was going out with OM and this has meant you need to reassess where you both are.
If you wish the M to work I cannot accept you working with him anymore & having contact" don't get involved into evidence just say you know thats it.

Now it may be she was just 'talking big' with a GF just as guys do with their mates. Would it be wise to find out as much as you can about this? She obviously doesn't lie well - at least you seem able to pick it up ok these days...is it worth a try to find out the detail?

If you still get the refusal & lies you will know more is going on than a hello & then you have the option to instruct the lawyer to proceed to D if thats what you want in the New Year. It also gives your DD & family a good Xmas & New Year.

Then after the NY you may simply say to her as she is unwilling to break contact you are filing for Dv.
However a good total non contact plan B is still a good option IMHO.

I don't recall how long their A has been going on. Just remember that Harley says the is takes most A's 2 yrs to run their course. If your reg. date is around your D-day then, although it seems like a long time...it really isn't.

Real recovery can't begin as long as there is any contact. She must leave her job if she wants to recover your marriage. Unfortunately, these are the consequences of A's. She should also end contact with any friends that enabled her A. It will be difficult for her to accept as long as she is in the fog as a WS. Once she values her marriage her attitude should change.

In our case, we had to stop being friends with a whole group of people leaving us fairly friendless. It was just that much more clear that we had to spend our 15 hours per week meeting each other's EN's....and forsaking all others.

We have since met other friends in an environment more condusive to supporting our marriage.

Don't give up too soon. I see nothing wrong with filing for DV with the option to stop it should she see the light. This may or may not be the wake up call she needs. Bounderies. Up to you, but I would really hope you'd do a plan B first...unless you've already done one.

I am sorry this is going on during the holidays but it seems to be par for the course.

This is from my recent post: I couldn't wait, it was eating me up sitting her with this knowledge. I had to see if she would be honest about the contact:

from recent post: (just confronted . . .)

Surprise, she swore that she isn't talking to him. She said I was crazy and wanted to know "how I know for sure". I didn't tell her. I just said that I know for sure. She said that it was unfortunate that I believe that. I told her that I did call the attorney and told him to go ahead and file the papers.

I've listened to the recording several times. I don't think she could be talking to or about another person. Her denials do make me doubt myself, but I have to stay strong this time.

I told her that I would be willing to consider staying in the marriage, but that there would have to be some major changes.

Oh well, the balls in her court now. I feel very bad about doing this right before Christmas, but I've asked her not to keep things from me or lie, I don't feel I should do anything different for her.

I just had a scary thought. What if I'm wrong and she was talking about another person with the same name??

The odds of that are extremely low. IF it were true, it means she is still engaging in inappropriate behavior.

Ok, what if you are.



But you also said that she said she did not have to get permission from you or him from gf, so what would that mean if you are wrong?

Susan

I feel horrible about doing this 3 days before Christmas.

grove of course you do...but if you keep just threatening what use is that?

its either plan Dv or a good plan B

It not you who created the sit when it happened it was your WW. The ball is in her court. The timing was her behaviour not yours.

If she wants the M then she will need to give a bit, if she does not want to give on the job & contact, basically do what she wants when she wants then do you have a M really?

So how do I handle this in the wake of her denials???

She's going to push for absolute proof. That's her MO. She did it on d-day. She didn't admit to anything until I confronted her with absolute proof.

For now, I thought I would say nothing more. Go on with our Christmas plans and let her decide whether she was going to just let the divorce go through. If she doesn't say anything else, I won't either. The ball is in her court now. I will wait and see what she does.

So just because she asks why do you need to answer?

YOU KNOW..... thats it ...say I'm not revealing my sources thats my business.
Your WW's job is to explain why she would agree to see OM after work let alone during work?

Those tactics of hers should be ignored grove. Its a defensive thing and as it worked a few times before she will keep trying it again.
Just sit tight. Dont argue.

Your response should be "well do you want this M or not? If so no contact & if you have to leave your job so be it & so on etc etc"
Keep repeating it over & over, hopefully by the New Year she'll understand thats exactly what it will take.

SHE WILL TRY TO BREAK YOU IS MY GUESS ..... getting you to question your own evidence etc if she can ... so dont engage in the argumentive assaults, do the repeat thing as above.

You know what...tell her what you just told us.

Grove: "You wouldn't even admit to what was going on BEFORE until I put it right in front of your nose. Well, at this point I am NOT going to tell you how I know. Make no mistake, just like last time I have PROOF. I KNOW. But I am NOT going to give it to you, because bluntly I'm not going to let you know HOW I know this stuff."

WW: "You're just saying that...you just think you know!"

Grove: "I have enough proof that I've finally filed for divorce...what does THAT tell you? Now, you are at the point where this is NOT going to go on any longer. I am NOT going to just sit here and accept your actions while you're married to me. So at this point, it's up to you. Either finally start doing what you have to in order to fix our marriage, or you and I are completely through. It's that simple, and it's now up to YOU to do the right thing."

My wife and I had a similar talk after d-day...she was still dragging her feet about what she was going to do, still foggy and in withdrawl, and I'd reached the limit of what I could take from her anymore.

That was 18 months ago...we're all set to celebrate Christmas again this year...still married, still together. I know MB doesn't support ultimatums, but I don't completely agree with that. I think that way too many BS's get caught up in plan A and B, and never define an end to what they'll accept from the WS/FWS. And that just permits this to go on and on. Sometimes, the WS/FWS has to see that there IS a limit to the stupidity that a BS will take before they finally realize what they're doing...and what they're losing.

Great advise Owl.

I hope I am able to say it just the way you've written it.