This was originally posted on "Just Found Out" but it was suggested that I repost here.

I have been an avid lurker on the forum since finding out two months ago that my wife was having an affair. A friend who has been through it has been a great support person. However, I need more advice so here’s my situation (I apologize in advance for the length of this post):

Background: Married 13 years, together 17 years. 3 kids (12, 10 & 6). The largest stressor is probably long term financial issues which have caused a lot of unhappiness.

In October my wife admitted to having spent a night that weekend with another man (my Anniversary weekend no less) and that it had happened once before two months earlier (that time no hotel, drunk spur of the moment thing). She assured me that it was over, that the only contact they had since August were a few phone calls planning the October meeting (which was actually planned for September). Wanting to learn more I asked for his full name and she informed me that it was long, difficult to pronounce and she didn’t know how to spell it. Well, I found a paper with an e-mail address on it and Googled it. Luckily, he has used the address on-line and I discovered his name. Googling the name I found his address and work address. After the October revelation I got the message of how much trouble my marriage was in and began immediate steps to try to fix what I am at fault for (of course, they are the same things that we argued about before but obviously I didn’t think they would lead to where I am now) I have become a horrible snoop (I hate that) and learned much about her and the guy. Learned that they had a number of contacts by phone and e-mail (she denies the e-mail still). However, she said they were through and that it would not happened again. I took her at her word. Well, during mid-last week while snooping I found a paper with directions and a phone number. A reverse phone search revealed it was a hotel. She was to go out of town shopping last weekend made numerous assurances after questioning that all she was doing was shopping and seeing her sister. I called the hotel hoping that she had a change of heart and came to her senses and was hoping that the clerk would tell me that the guy and her were not registered. Sadly, the clerk simply advised that they had stepped out. I called back later and when he answered I said “Put (wife) on you little sh-t. He paused and then said that she had left fifteen minutes earlier. I new he was lying so I cussed a little more and she then called me back.

According to friends and family that are aware of the situation, my wife feels guilty, is sorry and wants to work on making the marriage work. So here are my questions:

1. She tells me that my catching them in a hotel at which he was sure no one would find them freaked him out and that he promptly left telling her to work it out with me. She assures me that he will not contact her and she will not contact him. However, I personally will not be comfortable until a no contact letter goes out. She has so far hesitated (though she says she is considering it) despite me telling her that she ought to do it if for no other reason than that I need it for my mental health. Also, she thinks I should not have cussed at him, but that it was probably her I should be cussing at (wouldn't that just be a major love buster though if the intent is to work it out?).

2. After the confrontation by phone while she was at the hotel, she asked why I didn’t tell her I knew what she was doing and stop her. Frankly, I had been dropping hints that I suspected she was doing something she should not do and I believe she would have just lied and changed the place of their meeting. I suppose I hoped she would come to her senses and not go through with it. I also thought it was more powerful to catch them in the act and that that might jar her back to reality. Should I have confronted her beforehand and told her I know what she was about to do? In other words, she is almost making me feel as though it’s my fault they met since I had prior knowledge of the meeting and I was in the wrong for not stopping it.

3. I think it is crucial that we enroll in marriage counseling. I feel like there are things that need to be said and that those things would be more productive with a moderator rather than just the two of us where the possibility exists for feelings and defensive posturing to come into play. How do I convince her to go?

4. Regarding 100% honesty, I now know for sure that she fooled around with him last year. I have not told her I know. I have said things like "I will forgive you for past indiscretions so if there are any others tell me." However, she continues to deny there are any others than the times these past few months. I find it heard to commit to working it out and to believing that they are done if she doesn't tell me about last year or at least it comes out somehow and she then knows I know. So, I guess my next question is do I tell her that I know about it and give her enough info to know that I am not just trying to trap her (I will not tell her how I know because if she still refuses to admit how it happened I do not want her to get better at covering her steps).

Thanks for what I know will be good advice.

Your WW has not committed to ending all contact with the OM via a NC letter, so my answer would be a resounding NO. Radical honesty is a principle that should be used AFTER the affair ends and BOTH spouses are committed to make it a foundation of their newly rebuilt marriage.

If you haven't done so already please convey to your W that without NC, there can be no marital recovery and her addiction to the OM will continue as strong as it was before d-day. She must understand that there will be a several months period of painful withdrawl in which she'll be constantly tempted to contact the OM. You must also remind your W that the OM showed his true colors as far as his so called love for her, when he unceremoniously dumped her right after your talk with him. It is very hard for women to admit that they had been used for nothing more than sex. Explain to her that OM target emotionally vulnerable women like her to use them until they grow tired of them. If you beleive that your W may not be receptive to all this when you try to communicate with her, then consider writting it in a letter which she can then read by herself without feeling the pressure of your presence.

In the meantime avoid these love busters at all costs:

1.Angry Outbursts.
2.Selfish Demands.
3.Disrespectful Judgments.

And lastly, copy and print two copies each of the ENQ [emotional needs questionaire] and the LBQ [love busters questionaire]. Have your W fill out her copies and you fill out yours INDIVIDUALLY so that a picture develops of of each others most important emotional needs and love busters.

TMCM

P.S. If you have trouble finding the ENQ and LBQ, please let me know so that I can point you to a link.

SFA,

You must consider your W is in a CONTINUING A.

"" made numerous assurances after questioning that all she was doing was shopping and seeing her sister.""

She is lying to you and will continue to lie to you to be with the OM. She is an alien being right now.

""She tells me that my catching them in a hotel at which he was sure no one would find them freaked him out and that he promptly left telling her to work it out with me. She assures me that he will not contact her and she will not contact him.""

I would NOT believe ANYTHING spouting from her mouth at this time. Keep snooping! Be ever vigilent!

You know the OM, is he married? Expose to his W if he is. YOU MUST BE THE ONE TO STOP THIS A. It doesn't sound as if they will.

""I think it is crucial that we enroll in marriage counseling... How do I convince her to go?""

Why would she need convincing if she was serious about committing to your marriage.

Also why in the world is she hesitant about sending a NC letter? Must be BECAUSE THE A IS STILL GOING STRONG!!

""Also, she thinks I should not have cussed at him, but that it was probably her I should be cussing at....she asked why I didn’t tell her I knew what she was doing and stop her.""

We call this FOGBABBLE!! Nonsensical speak that is all gibberish except to an infidel.

She is going to tell you anything you want to hear, to keep the contact and the A going. You must fight for your M and break up the affair. The best way to do this is to EXPOSE, EPOSE, EXPOSE!!

k

SFA,

Welcome to MB, although I'm sorry your here under these circumstances! I agree with the others, the A is still on-going, at least for your WW. Most likely they are going even further underground, or lying low until you relax somewhat. It doesn't sound like your WW is ready to work on your M though. I'm not so sure about the quizes, if the WW is still in the A her answers most likely will be made under the influence, or what is called "fog" here.

In my case I believed my WH when he said there wasn't contact, and found out a year later that it continued the whole time. I found out by putting a keylogger on the computer, learning his passwords to his many e-mail accounts and found the e-mails. To ask your WW for this would mean she would clean out these e-mails so you wouldn't see them. If there is anything I have learned it is don't believe anything the WH says before the NC letter is sent, and take your time building trust afterwards. I would advise to check her e-mails and cell phone bills.

It may save you a lot of heartache and bring things to a head sooner.

There can be no true recovery without honesty. It's as simple as that.



You can tell her that you know she's being dishonest and, until such time that she's prepared to be honest with you, recovery of your M will simply not be possible - you both would just be going through the motions, but not accomplishing anything. Tell her that when she's ready to "come clean" about her past cheating (and clearly define for her that cheating covers anything she did that she would not have done if you were there by her side), you'd take it as a sign that she's seriously committed towards working on your M. And leave it at that.