Dude.

HEAR US.

You're throwing water on the fire with a thimble. She's not going to break until there's some WEIGHT on her. If this marriage is important to you and your children you're going to have to rock her world.

MC isn't going to suddenly bring her to some point of awareness where she says "Ohmygosh! What WAS I thinking?". CONSEQUENCES and PRESSURE. CARROT and STICK. Wax on, wax off...

Heavy exposure. Excellent plan A. Then she'll respond with anger, tears and gnashing of the teeth. This rarely varies in any situation. There are things that you MUST do to stop this and ways that she WILL react. It's almost always the same. And there is probably no way to get out of this without it getting ugly in some way, shape, or form.

WS's aren't the only ones that suffer from "magical thinking". All of us BS's have been there at some time or another also. I think you might be there right now.

Pulling for you dude. Honestly.

-Fluke

Fluke,

Well, exposing to the OMW has not really seemed to have done anything, I had hoped it was really going to break things loose.

I am pretty sure the OMW must have confronted right away because I have noticed very subtle changes in my W and OM activities.

He probably denied A as well, that strategy has worked well for my W on me.

But to be on the safe side it seems like they have stopped meeting outside of work, or changed everything so that I can no longer tell?

I suppose I will be back posting in a month saying that you were right and that the counseling went no where.

I hope to he!! that isn't the case. I really do.

Don't get me wrong - I'm on your side here. We did the MC for 6 mos after the first A - it never had the desired effect. I'll try to give you more of a picture of what happened with that when I have a little more time to type. Maybe it can help you guys.

You're not alone. We're here for you. Not trying to beat you up too badly and when we do it's out of genuine concern.

For what it's worth - Merry Christmas to you and your kids. Holidays are tough for me too but I'm no longer where you are right now - but I remember.

Praying for you. Hang tough. I'll get back to you soon.

-Fluke

Fluke,

Thanks, I know you guys are on my side, that is why I am here. And you can be tough, I do tend to take my time on some of these things.

If I don't say anything to my W, Christmas will be great, this is perhaps the thing that has me most confused.

Both her parents and my parents have mentioned to me that things must be improving, she seems so loving and caring. Our children now see a lot of love and care expressed in our home between my wife and I, and very little arguing.

If I did not know she was having an A, I would say this is the best our marriage has been in years.

I have made some big changes, and she seems to be responding to them, but she continues to see the OM...

Merry Christmas to you to. I probably won't be posting much after today until next year.

Would like to hear more of your story when you have time.

Hi MelodyLane or anybody else that might be listening,

I took your advice and told my W this morning that I disclosed to the OMW. She tried to act suprised but I think she knew this already.

I could tell she had met with the OM at the end of work yesterday. So I told her I am tired of having a wife that has a boyfriend.

I told her she can take the children and go to her parents without me for Christmas. I said yes, I am wrecking Christmas for the children but that is small compared to what your A is doing and will do to the children.

What should I do next ???

No, no, no. You must be with your children for Christmas! That may be a big important fact for custody if your sitch proceeds to court. I am in the legal field, I know. So whatever you do, be sure that you are there with your children tomorrow! A temporary gain of throwing a tantrum that at best would be a pyrrhic victory is potentially very costly to you in the future. At the same time, your children deserve their father to be with them on that special day. Do not be the cause of your children’s suffering because of your reactions to your WW. In all of this, the one thing that you have to watch out for is the best interest of your children. No matter how bad WW acts, do not take it out on the children. Unfortunately or fortunately, depending on your perspective, you cannot just think about you here. There are also your children to be concerned about. So please be with them on that day. If not for you, do it for them.

As for exposure, call WW's parents TODAY and tell them to talk to your WW on your behalf. Telling them and not letting them put pressure on her is truly a great waste of an opportunity to put pressure on the A. You have to use every tool at your disposal to bust up the A.

I would also call OMW again to tell her that your WW and OM are seeing each other again (maybe they never stopped). OMW may be in denial, but you contacting her will definitely put pressure on the A from her end again. You never know what kind of lies OM is telling her. You should therefore definitely contact her again. I would do it right after Christmas. In short, you have to be more proactive here.

I know the timing of all of this stinks, but I'll wish you a Merry Christmas anyway!!!

UVA,

Well I was just trying to put pressure on my W. I suppose I could go over to her parents house tomorrow for Christmas.

I did call her parents and say I would not be coming today for Christmas Eve, that I was tired of having a W that has a boyfriend.

I am hoping they will talk to her tonight.

I know what you mean, but that is not what will make her end the A.

Yes, go over tomorrow. It is important for your kids and important for a custody case should you guys end up in court.

Good luck tomorrow.

Thanks,

What is going to make her end the affair. I am kind of at wits end here.

When her affair hurts her, she will consider stopping.

And how does that happen? She does not seem to care that this is hurting me. Does not seem to realize the potential of this hurting the children.

Bryan - None of them care that they are hurting their children or spouse. That is why we say they are like drug addicts. As long as they are getting their drug, nothing else matters. They are completely INSANE.

Your best bet is to continue exposing the affair. Tell your friends, people at her work, and speak to his wife again. Tell her to come to marriagebuilders. The OM has probably denied the affair to her, but she will be watching.

I do think you should be with your children on Christmas. Try to relax and have a nice day.

Thanks believer,

I did spend Christmas Day with my W and children. It went well, if I don't say anything about the A to my W then things always go well.

Pepperband,

I hope I am getting closer to doing a plan A.

I have told my W that I disclosed to the OW and that I am ready to talk to the OW again if I find out the A is still continuing.

I told my W that I have disclosed to her parents and that I will continue to answer their questions as they ask, and that I will ask them to talk to her if this A continues.

My W still will not admit the A, but says she is ending the "relationship" with the OM.

Sure you guys will have opinions about that one <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, yea I know she probably is just saying this to keep me happy.

What is next?

Oh yea, still being the BEST husband I can be.

JB,

This seems like progress to me. Remember, up till now,
there was "no relationship."
Seems like exposure is beginning to crack the bubble of their fantasy. That is why it is so extremely important to expose, even if it is very hard to do so.
Since WW want to end relationship, you must now insist it be done using MB principles. A NO CONTACT(NC) letter must be either handwritten or typed stating the WW understands their relationship has been very hurtful to her family and was inappropriate to begin with. She needs to let OM know that she is ending R so she can work on healing and restoring her M and must insist that he not contact ever again for any reason. YOU must read and approve of NC letter and YOU will be the one to mail it. Otherwise, you will never be really sure it was ever sent.
There are sample NC letters on this site if you search for them.
NC and busting up the affair are also essentials parts of Plan A. Otherwise, your changes in Plan A will be seen, but appreciated by your WW. She will says that it is too late,blah,blah,blah. Also after NC is established, she will be major withdrawal from her fog. This may last several mos. but as long as true NC is established, it will fade.
Also, it is not uncommon that NC may even be broken a number of times. If this happens, withdrawal from the fog is back to day 1 and you will need to start the process all over again. Stay strong and vigliant. You will need to continue your snooping, even after NC. You are not really snooping, you are attempting to uncover the truth that you have every right to know!
Your WW will have to become completely transparrent to you. You have a right to know where she is, who she is with, etc.
This will feel tight and controlling to your WW, but needs to happen for some time into the future if trust is ever to be re-established. It's the only way your WW will become a FWW. I had C tell me there is a formula for trust. {TRUST=CB/T} Consistant behavior over time!
You've been doing a great job, thus far. But stay firm and establish your boundaries. The dynamics here are changing. You probably are beginning to feel just a little more in control. If you doubt this, go back and re-read your first post. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> You are now armed with so much more knowledge than your WW and it is now working to YOUR advantage.
Do you feel it???
MB really does save M's that were otherwised, doomed.
Stay strong, you will need your strength in the months to come. This is not a sprint, but a marathon.
All Blessings,
Jerry

Wish I wasn't so cynical. I have a hard time believing that she is ending the relationship that she says never happened. I think she and OM are worried about his wife finding out.

Good point B,
That is why NC letter must happen ASAP. Otherwise, JB, she is just stalling to try to get you to back off.
If that is the case, re-exposure to OMW will be essential. And it won't stop there. Expose to everyone who could possibly have an influence on your WW.
Dr. H advocates everything short of taking out a billboard, regarding exposure.
All Blessings,
Jerry

Thanks for the encouraging post shinethrough. It does seem like the dynamics may be changing. And it does seem like its going to take a while. Its hard not to get so very, very angry about all of this.

Next step will be discussing the NC letter with my W, and continuing to be the best husband I can be.

Believer, I would tend to agree. Seems like I would see a lot of "withdrawl" if it really were ending. Not sure what else to do, she says its ending, guess I have to wait until I know otherwise? and then start the expose steps again ??

Have you asked her to write a no contact letter?