If you want all the details of my situation, search this forum for my thread entitled "Suggestions for Christmas with XH" or words to that effect.

XH and my D was final just on Dec 7 after 16 months separation, which has been amicable. We separated because we couldn't get along and I attribute that a lot to untreated depression which led to substance abuse on his part. I'm not blameless - but I didn't commit any "deal breakers". During the separation (~5 months ago) he picked up an online girlfriend on a dating service - she's on the other side of the country, and was here in town the week of the D. I never met her nor did our kids (whew). He visited her in September - so they've been together in person for a sum total of less than 2 weeks, the rest is online/telephone.

In the weeks before the D, H and I talked about the possibility of reconciliation - I had a relationship during separation too - but I ended it when I realized that I wanted my H back. He'd worked on some of his issues - he still has issues, but as of late he's been treating me better than he has in many years (or even ever?!) and that stirred my heart and turned it back to him. Never thought that would happen - but I'm finding out that I've still got a deep abiding love for him, and the more he changes in a positive way toward me, the stronger those feelings grow.

He was OK with postponing D when I suggested it - until I found out he'd paid G/F rent - then I went ahead with D because I felt I needed to protect my child support. We barely get by and he could ill-afford to do that (it's a "loan"...uh huh) so I felt threatened and did what I felt I had to do to protect the interests of my kids and myself.

During that week there was quite a bit of hostility - mainly at my initiation - I was feeling very vulnerable and threatened, GF was in town, the marriage I'd hoped to save was in divorce court, kids' feelings were raw -- it was just a bad week all around.

He spent most of that week working - his day job during the day, and he dragged g/f to a job site for a customer of our business every day/night but 2. One night he was "off" and the other he attended our daughter's recital, with myself and our son. He booked his night work - I didn't sabotage his week with g/f but I couldn't have done a better job of it if I had.

A couple of days after she left, I was still emotional and did some more LB... again no excuse except that I was still very hurt by it all and I didn't handle it well. At that time and during D week he told me it's over forever, period. Of course during D week I said it too - but did not really mean it. However after she left and after D, when he said it it seemed to have a real finality to it...

SO... since then, he's been extremely nice to me, and I respond in kind. He hasn't been around our business at night lately (he works a regular job during the day, and part time at our jointly owned biz at night), he's been out on customer sites etc. But when we do work together, we laugh and joke and it's all very easy and relaxed. He treats me with such respect now - and nothing is forced. Just like I wanted it to be in the marriage.

I wasn't sure what to do about Christmas - posted a thread here asking advice but it didn't get much response. I waited for him to approach me, which he did, and after some roundabout negotiation (I had told him I was putting an end to "family" get-togethers after D... although prior to D we did stuff weekly). He fished for an invite - which did extend (I do want him to be with us)... he later said he wanted to come to the house but was afraid to ask since I'd put the kibosh on that. I did not rehash the old conversation - just moved forward and said,"it's set then"... and we made our plans.

I bought him a gift each from the kids, and I bought him a sweater - figured that was a nice gesture.

He's typically not a Christmas shopper - he's one of those last-minute-buy-the-first-thing types - he only had to buy for me when we were married - I did the rest.... well this year he's been shopping, took the kids shopping (for me) and last night he asked to borrow my pickup truck to shop -- he doesn't know I saw it but he came back with a brand new TV for us... mine is on its way out and he's been aware of that for a while. I never expected him to buy us a TV though - I feel it's up to me to save and buy one if needed.

It's a LOT of money (about $200 and he (and we) has precious little to spare). Yes the kids will enjoy it - but when he wanted me not to see the box I got concerned that he'd bought me something - he said "it's for everybody" (everybody - not just "you and the kids"). He wanted me to be surprised. I don't ever remember him taking the kids to shop for me - I usually shopped for myself "from" the kids.

So he has bought us an extravagant gift(s) and he's spending Christmas Eve and Christmas day with us. Sounds great for a start at recovery, right?

But the g/f is still in the picture. I almost figured after the crappy week she spent here she'd ditch him... or he was trying to ditch her based on the way he treated her - he didn't take her anywhere except our customer's basement... but she is still there.

What do I make of this? Guilty conscience? (That's atypical for him). Wants to reconcile but doesn't know how to lose the g/f? (turn off the computer to start with...)

I'd love nothing more than to know that he wanted to work his way home - it would be a long road, but I'm willing to do what it takes. I've been plan-A'ing for a while and with the odd minor setback, I think it's going well... but this girlfriend just adds a "cake eating" dimension to the whole thing.

Can anybody offer insight? I know none of you knows my XH... but for the life of me I can't figure out the male brain/heart and I'm trying to figure out if I'm being a fool to think there's hope, or should I keep fighting for him with everything I have?

Part of me is angry that he might be cake-eating... but the other part of me wonders if he does spend more time with us as a family (perhaps I was wrong in stating I'd stop all that), he'll want more of it? We used to eat dinner out as a family every Friday - but we stopped the week g/f came at the beginning of the month - I didn't want my kids to meet her. They did meet the man I saw - and they were sad when it didn't work out. That's a mistake I won't repeat.

Also - Christmas is one thing -- but should I offer up Friday dinners as an option again? Or is that lending more cake-eating opportunity?

It's a tough call - even though we're divorced I'd like to keep trying... or am I just beating a tired, dead horse?

I have a long history (most of it good, some bad and he's re-written a lot of history but I think his depression cast a pall on even some of the better times) on my side, proximity, of course our children, our home... I can't understand why he wouldn't want to try again now that he is better (on anti-d's and working out his issues).. lust is powerful and so is fear I guess - fear that we'd fall into the same rut (I'd work to prevent that and I hope he would too)... logically it would make sense to at least give it one more try. We never tried since separation - he was in a bad headspace until he got off recreational drugs in June or so, by then I was seeing somebody, then he was seeing somebody (the online g/f), then I ended my relationship.

Part of me thinks that once his relationship burns itself out he may want to try again? Or am I delusional on that too?

I guess I (unfairly) feel that once I had my "aha!" moment, he should have too, and dropped everything and come back - but I had to fall on my face to know what I wanted - perhaps he does too?

Help....

H2u

Well, he is cakeating, just so you know.

He actually in his own mind has the best of all worlds. He doesn't "technicallY" have a duty to you (his conscience apprecaites that), he has a family and "doting" wife at his beck and call when he wants it, and he gets to have a lustful relationship and it "technically" is ok.

I can understand your "frustrations" with this all.

I think for the record, when his relationship "burns" out he may want to try again with you. Nothing delusional about thining that. That ofcourse doesn't mean it will be an "honest" try with you. Hopefully it will be.

Is he still on drugs or using illegal substances? What is he doing to maintain sobriety?

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

So he has bought us an extravagant gift(s) and he's spending Christmas Eve and Christmas day with us. Sounds great for a start at recovery, right?

[b]Sounds like his girlfriend has out-of-town plans....

this is NOT marriage recovery

marriage recovery is when both spouses are working ON THE MARRIAGE ...

you have seen his attempts to be congenial at holiday time .... don't get ahead of yourself

Have you told your hubby you aren NOT getting back together with him till total no contact is established...

NO CONTACT
with proof..

have you said this to him...

ARK

He is no longer doing illegal drugs. Part of our D agreement includes random drug screening at my discretion. Back in May I put my foot down and told him he couldn't have visitation as long as he was doing drugs. It hit the fan then and he called me every name in the book. At that time I told him he couldn't hurt me anymore, if he wasn't doing anything wrong, I challenged him to take a drug screen and make a fool out of me, otherwise, I wasn't going to lose my kids if he got pulled over and got busted (he kept his crap in his car) even when kids were present although I don't believe he was ever high when he had the kids, and they never saw anything. I told him he's a grown man who can make his own choices - choose the drugs and lose the kids, or choose sobriety and get to keep being a father to his kids. He made the right choice. He wasn't a daily user, but enough to interfere with his personality, and cancel out the benefits of the antidepressants he was prescribed. About 6 weeks later he asked me to administer a test and he passed. He's passed every surprise test I've administered. Once that crap got out of his system, his whole demeanor changed for the better - and in hindsight I think he realizes what it was doing to him. I can "tell" when he's using - but I have the clinical proof that he's not and I can test again at any time. The threat of losing his kids completely was a strong motivator for him, and he knows he can't fudge on that, so he's stayed clean. Time will tell if he backslides, but I am comfortable with how things are in that regard right now. Once he got out of the drug-induced fog, I think he realized all that it was doing to him and I don't think he wants to go back in that hole again.

He was never a big consumer of alcohol - just the occasional social drink (I haven't seen him drunk in probably 15 years), but he's even stopped that too. Of course I can't tell what he does alone - but again, there are no red flags or warning signs that he's (ab)using alcohol and honestly this was never a real concern for me.

He IS taking prescription medications for his depression - and now that he's not cancelling them out with recreational stuff, he's a civillized human being again. If you'd been around him "before" and "now" you would understand what I mean. Many of our clients and aquaintances have seen a huge difference in him in the last several months.

I'm not exactly at his beck and call. I have discussed how I feel with him, but when he made his choice to continue with his girlfriend, I backed off. I ceased all family activities - but I felt it was best for the kids to make an exception for Christmas, and approached it from that point of view - what is best for the children. Yeah I'm looking forward to spending time with him... but I didn't go to him with it from that point of view. It is confusing when we're both getting along so well - I want more, but NO I will NOT take second place to anybody - and I've told him that in no uncertain terms. I'm not a doormat, and I'm not going to be anything more than a "friend" while she's in the picture. So YES I have told him explicitly that there is no reconciliation as long as she's in the picture.

He had an EA about 10 years ago, with somebody online. Once exposed I demanded no contact (didn't know about MB but it was logical to me, and he honoured that. By the time I found out the EA part was over but they were "still friends" and that was unacceptable to me, and so he ceased all contact and went transparent. So he knows how that works. We DID get past that and for the remainder of the marriage I have no reason to believe it ever happened again, and it was not a concern to me during that time. I kept an eye on things - I would have been able to figure it out. He has never covered his tracks very well. His current relationship began about 11 months post-separation, so I don't consider it to be an affair outside the marriage - we were both in agreement to end the marriage at that point in time, and I was seeing someone also.

For what it's worth he has never made any romantic/sexual overtures since the separation, even after I told him how I was feeling and when he said he'd give consideration to reconciliation. We hugged and that was it. We talked on several occasions over a few weeks, but he still went ahead and booked her a plane ticket and paid her rent. That is when I decided to go ahead with the D which was scheduled in August, for a December court date. The D was a week away when we were talking postponement and I found out about the rent check the day I was waiting for my attorney to call me to arrange postponement. Glad he didn't call me back right away because I just decided at that point to get it legal so I could protect child support in case he started spending his kids' money on her.

During D week we had some heated email exchanges concerning whether or not our kids should meet G/F. In one paragraph he tried to convince me how much in love they are with each other, and then in antoher paragraph he told me he had been "contemplating a relationship with me again" and there had been "hope in his heart that he could come home someday".. and he went on to say that would never happen. I too, said that he'd convinced me that he never wanted to come home. I'm just not sure how much of what was said should be taken to the bank... I know I don't feel like it's completely over but I don't know if I should take him at face value either? Stuff said in anger...

During an earlier face-to-face conversation he'd told me, after I revealed my feelings, that he wasn't sure he was ready for *any* relationship. During that email exchange I responded that I think that statement was the most honest one he'd made -- he's not sure what he wants. I think on one hand the lustful relationship is very appealing, but I think he also realizes that it's temporary - but he's still going to ride the wave as long as he can. I don't feel very good about that - but then I rode the wave too, til it broke and I had my own epiphany about what I really wanted. I'm not proud of my mistakes but I had to make them on my own -- so I'm trying to apply the same logic to him - whether that's right or wrong I don't know but I shouldn't pull the sliver out of his eye while there's a log in mine.

I'm sure the excitement of somebody new is a powerful force, compared to the prospect of returning to the old comfortable shoe, which didn't fit very well in recent years.

Personally I feel that if he could look outside the box and realize that the undoing of the marriage was largely due to his (then untreated) depression - he was not a sociable person, he was angry and moody, and I wasn't Ms. Congeniality either - largely as a response to that... that now that he's got a good medication regimen and he has gone for some IC (IMO needs more... as well as MC for both of us)a lot of the problems that brought us to the point of separation/divorce have been dealt with.

No not all his issues are resolved - but if he is still moving forward and not backsliding, there's potential there, with MC and work together.

I'm working on things that I want to change, and I've come a long way. Given another shot at it, I'd do many things differently too. In the context of our friendship, I'm responding differently than I used to - he always said I never appreciated things he did (although I always made a point to thank him for things he'd done for me... he says I never did)... I'm making a bigger effort to be appreciative and make sure he hears me.

Plan B is impossible for me as we co-own a business together and either one of us getting out of it isn't a realistic option at this point - I even explored that option but doing so would probably mean bankruptcy at this point (the business is doing OK but still in growing pains and not saleable just yet). We both agreed not to do anything hasty about the business - we both love it - ironic - we need each other in the biz, but can't keep the relatiohship together.

H2U

You don't Plan A or Plan B your X-spouse ... you are divorced .... you made that decision to proceed with the divorce becaquse you had good reason!

Why not try and be the best mom ever .... and allow the ink to dry on your divorce papers? It seems to me, you are way too vulnerable to even think about allowing a recently clean drug user back into the safe circle you're trying to build for you and your children.

Relax ... you ought to settle into being divorced ... allow your emotions to catch up to you.

If there comes a time in, say 3-5 years that your X-husband has shown emotional stability and consistency and stays clean from drugs .... then you may consider adding him to your safe circle. Until then, he's simply an added risk, without beng much of an asset.