Ok, just venting here, BUT, my exWH can be SUCH a total butt head, but what else is new? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

So, being that we have a good relationship and I still love and am very close to his family, especially his mom, they are in town for the holidays, and everyone is coming to my house. In fact, his parents are staying w/ me since I retained our marital home that has plenty of room, and frankly they don't like it over at his house cuz it's a pig-sty and stinks like a big smelly dog, but I digress... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> So, no prob. Love to have them here, and my DD gets to spend the holiday's w/ grandparents, us, the whole family together. Well, as a result of them being here, we all end up spending lots of time together, so we all go to dinner tonight at his brother's restaurant. On the way there, we have to take some toll roads, only to discover that exWH didn't have his epass, cuz I borrowed it, returned it in DD's backpack and reminded him several times to get it out of her pack. Obviously he didn't. Well, his anxiety disorder kicked into high drive and he proceeds to rip me a new one, just like when we were married-blech! Man o man, he's lucky his mom and our DD were in the car. I was able to remain in control, but was I ever PO'D. We're talking total flash backs here. I calmly looked at him and told him in no uncertain terms was he to speak to me that way ever again. He begrugingly apologizes, but this is him, what's it's like to be around him. His pattern. He blows up, is a total *ss, apologizes, wash, rinse, repeat, ad nauseum.

Gawd he's such an *ss sometimes, but in the spirit of Christmas, I will end this rant w/ some kind words....he's a very VERY devoted father, USUALLY a good friend to me and is always on time w/ child support/alimony <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

K, end of rant....you may now return to your regularly scheduled programming

DW

DW, not sure what to say, other than I am impressed that you can stay friends with an ex <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />. I am friendly with my ex, but nothing more - every time I dive beyond the "business" discussion regarding kids, I am reminded of why we are divorced - her outlooks on life are SOOOOOOO different from mine. Every time I see those old triggers, I smile and thank my lucky stars that I no longer have to deal with that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Sounds like you saw a couple of those flashbacks too - maybe that's good, it reminds you of why he is an ex <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

OHHH, funny this should be talked about. I had my own disappoint with x 2 nights ago.

My daughter has health concerns secondary to another medical issue. She see's an endocrinologist, there is only 1 near our home. He is good, but I/we don't feel that he digs deep enough. We [father and I] have taken her to a couple other's for opinions, but have not had success at something better. He is convinced there is no one to help her differently. Her and I are always still hoping for more.
She would like to go out of state again to a group that we had tried previously.
She mentioned this to her father, and he said, NO, NO MORE DR's. We are done, you will stay where you are.

He took all the hope out of this child, 3 days before Christmas.
He can be the most heartless man. And THIS would be a very good reason why I'm glad not to be married to him any more.

I will give him, he spends time with the girls, and he is on time with alimony/child support, but more than that, he comes up short.
He would like to be my buddy, but civil is all I want from him.
I don't need a "buddy" in his form. All I need from him is civil for our girls.

I'm wondering what his mother was thinking of his rant DW??
Bet she wasn't too proud.

Karona

Hi DW, ever since I read you've remained good friends with your ex I've wanted to ask you some questions. If you don't want to answer, for whatever reason, that's fine.

In my head I'd like to think that in the future when emotions settle down, I'd want to be friends with my ex too. But I have a huge stumbling block which I wonder if you faced too. When I look at some of the issues involved with the D, some of which I will likely never have answers for, I just can't muster respect for my ex. I don't know if they are insurmountable or not.

For example, it's my belief ex was involved with his girlfriend before he wanted to D. Perhaps not physically, maybe not even a full blown emotional affair, but the idealization of her was with him. Also, we had a year of "reconciliation" in which he was not a full participant. Some of that is from FOO stuff, some his personality, some the grass is greener view & during the D some crapy, passive aggresive behavior.

All of this leaves me with very little to no respect for him. However, he does the right thing by the boys (now, grudgingly when he was first single expecting loads of freedom), he does pay what he should when he should & lately has been kind regarding some household stuff (though this is part of an agreement we have)& working with me when I've had some conflicts with kids schedules & mine.

I truly admire your understanding of & clearly coming to terms with your ex's emotional limitations. I think for me, at this point anyway, I just can't find the desire to want to spend any time with my ex. If he weren't my ex & an acquaintance or even a friend I might be more able to live with his limitations & prior bad behavior. Maybe. But spend time with him? I just don't know.

Wow DW:

Not me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

WXW wanted to remain friends. "Good friends"! I asked her: "How many friends do I have who've done what you have to their family through lies, deceit and adultery?" She got pi$$ed! Oh well - it's the truth.

I've got to ask: Do you trust him? If so, please share with us how you came to do so.

Merry Christmas

FR

Yes, exactly FR. Trust & respect.

I can't picture myself being friendly with anyone (not just ex) who has blown apart a family for their own desires. Courtious, polite, working together for the sake of the children, but friends?

I know forgiveness of others can be something we give ourselves. We aquire peace, we can move away from the hurt but it's a long way to friendship.

I'll never forget the first time I went to ex's apartment after he moved out. For me it was difficult. But he met me at the door with an excited look on his face looking every bit like a teenager out on their own for the first time. He asked me if I wanted a beer like we were having a celebration all the while looking like a kid in a candy store. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> The kids are watching tv while ex goes on in his happy way about his new pad & their family is falling away around them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I think many X's get anxious over the holidays. Remember that many of them have to do things themselves now, and they can't delegate shopping, decorating to their X's.
My X and a friend's X were on rampages again this week. I think it seems to happen at the same time. Like they all have male PMS. Not the same topic, but similar.
I, too, recently told X not to speak to me in a certain tone.

I cannot see how that someone that cheats, shatters their spouses heart, lies, blames everyone but themselves, can want to be friends with their X? My X wanted the same, she thought we would be best-buds.

My STBX is the same way...as is the OW...they can't understand why I am not chummy with them..."GET A CLUE!" I them.

I one thing these exs that want to be friends have in common is H.U.A.D. It's a devastating disease the affects your sight & your judgement. The thinking is skewed & the behavior becomes self centered. They will often think if it works for them then everyone should be happy. They rewrite history to better suit & support their views & their behavior.

Anybody know the full name of the disease? Maybe it's a syndrome not a full blown disease. Guess it depends on the individual.

Well, that is it, in a nutshell, for me. It's about forgiveness, a forgiveness facilitated by my exWH's absolute, 100% remorse and he NEVER blamed me for his choice. NEVER. He accepted full responsibility for his actions. Yes he cheated, yes he lied, yes he tore our family apart by choosing not to end it w/ OW and trying to work it out w/ me......all very bad bad things he did, but bottom line, is he's sorry and he'll be sorry for it until his last breath. He is forever changed by this disatrous decision he made.

Now, if he weren't so sorry, or blamed one iota of his affair on me, or was a neglectful father, or didn't take responsibility for his actions, we would not have the type of relationship we have now. NO WAY. I would have been decent for the sake of our daughter, but that's it.

Now, it's not like we're best buddies and hang out all the time or talk on the phone constantly, chumming it up, but I can easily be around him, joke, laugh, spend holiday's together, whatever. I also go days on end w/o speaking to or seeing him, but, and I know this is going to sound weird, he's also one of the first peeps I called when exBF and I broke up and he was a good shoulder to cry on w/ a nice calming influence on me. Go figure.

I don't know how else to explain it. It's a choice I made, and it's helped me move forward but I know it's not the norm. I guess it's fairly similar to those BS who stay and work things out w/ WS, so I guess this is our type of recovery--we're just not married anymore, nor do I wish to be <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Aside from the infidelity, exWH has WAY too many other issues for me to ever want to go back (no drugs or alcohol, just alot of emotional stuff).

Just call us Bruce and Demi, w/ a whole he** of ALOT less $$! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

DW

Forgot I wanted to respond to some specific questions--

FR--do I trust him? Hmmmm, good question. Yes I do. I think he's truly learned his lesson. He's paid too great of a personal price to ever let his boundaries down again. "When you know better, you do better" really applies here to him. He's basically a good guy who was once full of dignity and integrity and lived a very moral life. He's the LAST person I'd ever thought would cheat.

AGG--oh yeah, PLENTY of flashbacks happen which certainly validates why we are not together anymore. No thank you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Karona--his mother is not blind to his faults and has always been a tremendous support to me (I knew her way before I even started dating him). Our relationship is such that in the car alone w/ her afterwards I'm able to say "gawd your son is such as *ss!" and she wholeheartedly agrees, yet she loves her son very much. She is a stellar woman and I ADORE her.

Nams--I too lost respect for my exWH. ALOT of respect. He did things that I never thought him capable of, stuff that typical WS do. Our story is not unique. But respect can be earned once again by actions. He does not prance about justifying what he did, or blaming others, or me. He's truly sorry and recognizes the damage he did and wishes everyday he could undo it. Makes a big difference. He's human and fallable and he made a huge mistake. Not everybody wants to be friends w/ their ex's and that's ok. I totally understand that. There are still good parts to him, and I CHOSE to keep his friendship in my life. Would I normally keep a friend who treated me that way? Heck no, but he's not just anyone. He's my baby daddy and someone I was once married to, so I made an exception.

BH--don't blame you one bit. I couldn't be friends w/ someone who blamed others and was a serial cheater. Nope.

Alluring--dont' blame you either. If exWH were w/ his OW, we would not be friends. He11 no!

DW

OK, DW I see the big differences between our situations. My feeling is ex wanted a new life. Perhaps due to a MLC or meeting his gf & feeling he'd found his soul mate, I don't know. He said he didn't cheat but I'll never know for sure unless he fesses up. It seems reasonale to me he may have at least been involved in an emotional affair with her.

As a special forces soldier I remember him saying once you've denied something you should continue to deny, deny, deny. I'd be stupid to at least not consider an affair either physical or emotional.

So, ex rewrote history & did blame a lot on me. He did not, IMO, really want to reconcile & did not make the efforts necessary for us to get back together.

If you asked him I don't think, at this point in time, he'd be sorry for anything.

He wanted a new life & he got it. Whether he's an ex or not he's not the kind of person I want as a friend. I do appreciate things he does especially being involved with the boys when at first he was having some difficulty fitting them in as often as we spoke of. But, I look at him & I see a man who dumped his family because he wanted something different & was convinced we couldn't have that together if we worked at it. Doesn't speak well of his character.

I do leave the door open a crack though. Not to getting back together, <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> but that if he does see what he's done was selfish & really does feel remorse maybe his character could be redeemed.

DW:

My ex-H and I are friends. He phones me when something happens in his family and I find myself talking to him and helping him cope with life like when we were married. We see each other in the flesh about once every 3 months when I need a haircut (he was my Hairstylist for 16 years--a divorce wasn't going to change THAT)... We always get together at my parent's house which is a neutral location and my H always comes along. It's a lot of fun.

Here's where the story becomes similar to yours---my ex-H has tried to strong arm me and tell me what to do when we get together. It didn't take long before I was fed up, so the last time he said something out of line, I told him "you can't speak to me like that--I'm not your Wife"! Now, I said it in a friendly way, but he CERTAINLY got the message. From that point on, he didn't treat me with any less respect than he would any other friend.

Don't play the victim! You're not his Wife anymore, so why pretend that you have to take his garbage? Keep a smile on your face and react as you would if it was your best girlfriend razzing on you. Just as I would tell my best friend to "flock off", I would say the same to my ex-H. You'd be surprised how well they learn the lesson when they realize you're free to fight back!

Not the victim at all, quite the contrary, I just chose to fight back when our DD wasn't within earshot. She DID hear me tell him to not speak to me in that tone, but trust me aeri, he and I had a prayer meetin' soon thereafter <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I was able to recognize that his anxiety disorder kicked into hyperdrive, hence the inappropriate blowup, therefore I was able to bite my tongue, for the moment....

It's something he's on medication for, truly recognizes, and is working on it.........BUT it still bugs the tar out of me when he's an *ss b/c of it.

DW