NOTE: I had intended to post this earlier, but I gave my wife the opportunity to look at it in case there was anything (factual information wise) that she objected to, and she didn't get back to me until this evening.
Ok…..hopefully I can make some sense here (I’m running on two hours sleep). I’ve just finished reading through all the posts in this thread through 9 AM US West Coast time.
First, let me state again that I understand that everyone here is speaking passionately from their hearts and experience in an attempt to help myself and my wife in rebuilding our marriage. I do not agree with the tone of some of the posters, but I recognize that the desire to stop this madness is genuine.
I will attempt to answer some questions that have been directed at me, clarify my position, and respond to a few things that really grabbed my attention. Before I begin, I would like to thank believer, vanasvegen, ManInMotion and shinethrough for their posts (there may be a few others, but those spring to mind). A lot of posts have come across, to me at least, as hateful. I understand that there is a lot of hate for the sins that are going on or have occurred, and there should be. But sometimes it’s hard to separate the hate of the sin from the hate of the person. Also FlukeBoy, who I’ve had e-mail exchange with. I do not have a problem with people who have an opinion different from mine, but I do not like them trying to shove it down my throat (ironically, that was one of my Love Busters with my wife. Guess I don’t like my own medicine, huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ).
Ladysheep asked:
I was wondering if you ever thought of having a talk with OM?
This one isn’t quite a yes or no question. The OM was a friend of mine (that is no longer the case). I met him through one of my recreational interests, and had frequent contact (e-mail and chat) with him in the course of that shared interest. This continued until 2 or 3 weeks ago, and I have left that particular recreational interest (not directly because of him, but because it was to high on my priority list compared to my family and therefore needed to go).
While our recreational contact continued, I stopped chatting with him immediately. I sent him one e-mail, telling him that I was going to focus on my marriage and would decide what to do about our friendship later (this was within 2 or 3 weeks of my wife admitting the affair to me). I had an additional e-mail contact with him after my wife came clean with everything that had happened (and was still going on, via chat and phone), to let him know that my wife had told me everything (he had told her that if he didn’t hear from me in 5 days, he would tell me). I also asked him to give me the details (not the play by play, just a general outline of what went on) so I could bounce it off what my wife told me. He was not willing to do that, but said he would answer any yes or no questions I sent him. I did not send him any, and have not contacted him since, except to give him a tracking number for something that he sent my wife that I sent back.
I have thought about it, but I do not think it will do any good. He was my friend before he befriended my wife, he betrayed my trust, and continued to betray my trust after I found out about the first affair.
Grownup wrote:
BB has admitted himself, that he begged his wife to screw another guy IN FRONT OF HIM for years and years, even though the WS was completely against it. BB says that he never got her to act on it, but from what she says, she did some things for him that made her very uncomfortable.
It's an unfortunate situation that magpie is having an A, and there's no excuse for it. But, the H is a piece of work himself and has a lot to answer for and his leaving it all to God, is a little concerning...
Both of these people are a mess and who everyone should be concerned about are these children. One of these two parents needs to grow up and do the right thing by their kids.
We both know, and admit, that we have individual issues to resolve, as well as our marital issues. I’ve already addressing the “leaving it all to God” comment, but rest assured that I am actively working on changing myself. This is not just a “I want to change myself to save my marriage” change, but a genuine desire to change because there are some parts of me that have been brought into the light that I
do not like.
Our kids are innocent and do not deserve to be in the mess we have put them in. I want our marriage restored and rebuilt so that they can finish growing up in a truly loving family and have the best example they can of what a marriage (and a family) is all about.
UVA wrote:
Hi Broken,
I really have nothing to say to your WW at this time. But I would like to tell you that you are in my prayers and that we are here for you and will help you go through this, if you allow us to. Come back when you have a chance.
A few words are in order. You need a plan and you need it now. I know you said that you believe that you are doing God's will. I assure you that God's will does not include accepting, passively or actively, your WW to go on a trip where OM gets to screw her brains out. (Sorry for the graphic statement, but you need to be clear on what is happening.)
Given what your WW has said, I think your biggest task right now is to develop a BACKBONE. Right now, she has absolutely no respect for you. NONE. And since you allow her to act like this with little consequences, I can see why she would have no respect for you. Let me make this clear: you will not save your M by being a DOORMAT. Nor will you be able to protect your children and be a role model to them by being a DOORMAT. Nor will you be able to RESPECT YOURSELF if you continue to let your WW treat you like this. You need to WAKE UP and you need to WAKE UP now!
Your WW is just offering you crumbs, and rubbing her sleazy A all over your face. All over your CHILDREN'S faces. You have to come to a point where you do not accept to be treated like crap, as you are now, and act to protect your CHILDREN and your SELF RESPECT. If you are lucky you may even possibly save your M in the process. But contrary to what you may think, there is no way in he!! that you will save your M if you continue to allow your WW to Sh*t on you like this!
In short, it is time to grow some BALLS and MAN UP. If not for you, do it for your CHILDREN.
We are here for you and will be there for you. When you are ready, let us know and we’ll come up with a plan.
My heart and prayers go out to you and your children.
God Bless.
UVA, you have been the most strident in objecting to my current plan. I wholeheartedly disagree with you, but I respect your opinion and your experience. I will try and clarify my current position/plan once again. If you still feel the same way, we may have to agree to disagree on this.
I am not actively or passively accepting this trip. I do not believe God is telling me to do nothing about it. I
do believe that God is telling me to continue to work on changing myself, to continue to trust fully in Him, to continue to love my wife, to continue to be here for our kids, and to wait on Him and let Him deal with the trip and my wife. You are not here (you have been through this, or something similar, but you are not here in my shoes). You have not seen how ineffective my efforts in stopping the trip were, and how much has changed (in a positive fashion) in a single week when I gave that particular issue over to God. You have not seen the many positive changes in myself that God is bringing about.
I am not standing by idly waiting for God to work some miracle. I continue to focus on the things that I know I can have a positive effect on. I continue to pray, daily, throughout the day, for my wife. I continue to reflect on what I need to change, and discover on a daily basis either new things or more information on things I already knew about. I continue to do my best to show my wife my love for her.
Contrary to what you may believe, I
do have a backbone. I have told my wife that I love her and will always love her, and I will always be there for her to the best of my ability and circumstances. I have also told her that if she goes on the trip (which she has), that the above 2 items will still be true, but I cannot guarantee her and I do not know if I can continue to be her husband. I will try, but I do not know. I have told her several times that I will not, now or ever, accept, condone or approve of the trip she had planned. And if it happens again, with this OM or another, we are done – straight to Plan B then.
I told her I would not take her to the airport, nor would I pick her up from the airport if she stayed the intended duration and returned. I told her I would allow her contact with our kids whenever she wanted, and if she wanted to talk to me I would be willing if I was emotionally ready to, but I would not initiate any contact with her. I told her that I wanted to believe her when she said she would be back, but I would not fully believe it until she
was back.
Yes, she is there right now. And I have talked with her a lot while she has been there. The first time she went there (when the affair first became a PA), we had very little communication, and most of it was initiated by me.
Dr. Harley states that the BS cannot end the affair (short of taking actions of, at the very least, a dubious moral stature and most likely highly illegal). It must die a natural death. If you want to believe that I am enabling this (actively or passively), then try to view it as me doing some variation of Plan B, or a cross between Plan A and Plan B.
We have a very long way to go. I believe, however shakily or “not in sync with the program” we may be, that we have begun. I know I have, and I truly believe that she wants to (despite her current actions). I will not work on this marriage by myself forever, and she knows that.
UVA followed up with:
Broken,
Could you please tell me what you think the benefits of your WW going on the trip will be to your M?
And whatever you deem the benefits to be, why do you think they counterbalance the deleterious effects this trip will have on you M?
There are no benefits. I never said (or at least I never intended to imply or say) that there were. When she dropped the news on me that she was going to see the OM for 2 weeks, I told her that if she did that it would totally destroy all the gains (however small) we had made in restoring our marriage. In fact, it would most likely set us even further back. It would totally destroy any sense of intimacy I had with her (at that point, I had not yet realized that my sexual sin/obsession had already destroyed her sense of intimacy with me. Want to talk about self-respect as a man or ego? Try realizing that your own stupid, selfish, immature, immoral, unchristian sexual desires had degraded your wife, reduced her to an object in some part of your mind, and completely stripped her of intimate feelings for you and destroyed the one thing she wanted above all else – a monogamous relationship with her husband. When that finally hit home late last week, I felt like someone had just punched me in the gut. I was, and still am, sick at what I did and the incredible hurt I inflicted upon my wife with this.)
I have requested that when she returns we sit down together and draft a no contact e-mail to the OM, which we will send jointly from my account. I told her to tell him to expect it. I want the NC e-mail for my own sense of closure. She has agreed to this.
This trip will hurt me, it will hurt our kids, and it will hurt her. It will make our restoration and rebuilding more difficult. But it is not insurmountable.
Bigkahuna followed up MelodyLane’s comment about the two kinds of WS’s:
LM, remember when I said there are two kinds of WS's? There are those for whom an affair is an aberration of character and then there are those who just don't know right from wrong.
Mel, I don't think Magpie falls into EITHER of these.
I’m curious as to what category you feel my wife does fall into?
I’ll try to wrap things up, since this is a long post. There are many reasons why we are in this mess today. I have contributed a lot to our marital problems, and I ignored or paid little heed to my wife’s pleas, warnings and other signs of trouble. Nothing I did or did not do justifies the affair – I know that, and she knows that. We have a lot to go through and resolve, and the affair will be part of that.
Right now, I am not feeling a lot of anger or hurt. I may be burying myself in the “work” of rebuilding our marriage, I may be receiving peace from God to get through the current situation, or I may be repressing it (or a combination of all 3). I do
not want to repress it. Repressing my feelings is one of the things that got us here to start with (unresolved grief and anger over the deaths of my parents, especially my mom). I will be bringing this fear (repressing feelings about the affair) up with our counselor the next time I see him.
I have, and will continue, to change. I no longer shut my wife out regarding my feelings and thoughts. I am now totally open with her and do not suppress my feelings (at least not intentionally…I have a lot of bad habits to undo).
I am here, and my wife is here, because we genuinely do want to restore and rebuild our marriage. I realize that many of you do not believe that, on the part of my wife and/or on the part of me. I understand why, even if I don’t agree with all of your reasons.
It is my intention to continue to post and participate in these forums. I hope you will allow me.
Thank you all for your prayers and concern. It is my belief, based on recent experience, that prayer, numerous and constant from many sources, has been the biggest weapon my wife and I have had in even beginning to restore and rebuild.
brokenbird