Alas,
a broken heart.
Jer

Mel, I don't think Magpie falls into EITHER of these.

Lem,

I agree with you here. My wife did leave me to shack up with OM - many of us have seen that. But she didn't do it with delusions that "I would take it" and with the "I'm gonna try him out" and bugger everyone attitude.

The real difference here is she is taking a trip to say goodbye, waving it in hubby's face and then expecting she can just walk back into the marriage. She's a real piece of work. Much, much different to any WS I have ever seen post here.

Yup. You're an addict, and contact with the OM is the addiction.

Do you resolve an addiction to smoking by smoking more cigarettes to test the addiction?

Do you resolve an addiction to drinking by drinking more alcohol to test your addiction?

No, the correct path is to STOP acting on your addiction. And yes, there WILL be withdrawal symptoms, like there are with any other addiction, but like any other addiction, those symptoms will not last, once you don't act on your addiction. And in this case, that means starting and maintaining NC with the OM.

Here's the thing Jerry. She DIDN'T come here for help. Nothing ANYONE said to her made the slightest impression. She was fixed on her sin and that's it. If she called SH, she would be looking for help. Today, on this forum she was NOT seeking help. See the difference.

I've made almost 200 posts on these forums and never before trotted out the baseball bat to any poster - not even a 4x2. The brazen entitlement of this woman just stuns me beyond belief. I don't regret a word I have typed.

God help her children.

I read Magpies's responses yesterday. I was so angry I just could not reply -when My H came home I just wanted to smakc him in the head. I did not. I held my nager in. Now I am more under control so here goes:

Magpie -you stated that your H made you use voyurism and you resented it hence your A. To get back at him for makingyou do something you did not do??? Excuse me here since when can someone mkae you do anything. Why not tell him coun seling for us before any decisions are made -why not walk away from a man with such low principles. Would you tell your child if your friend jumps off a bridge you should follow? I don't think so. You would say no one can make you do anything!!!!!!!!!! So you are angry with yourself and do not think you fool me. You are a woman a mother and have free choice. You choice to have an and blame your H for what You are doing. So if I am to understand this correctly -if my H got mad at me for something I did it is OK for his to go have an A???? Just makes me want to throw up. So MY H had an A - OK so I guess acording to your rules I should go get a guy and [email]F@@k[/email] his brains out just to make it right. You are the worst example of a mother I have ever seen. I hope you are not raising a daughter. This sickens me - I almost thru up after reading your reasoning. Girl get your butt home and get into counseling for yourself, your dignity and out of respect for your children. The question both of you need to answer is where is your morality????????? Where is your pride in yourself. Oh course this guy wnats you -your free -a free piece of a$$. Oh sure he says all the right things but weho respects a guy screwing another man's wife?? Do you think he respects you? Do you think he would M a woman who cheats? I think not.

The woman in the Bible was repentant. Jesus told her, "Go, and sin no more."

Jeremiah 13:27 "I have seen thine adulteries, and thy neighings, the lewdness of thy whoredom, and thine abominations on the hills in the fields. Woe unto thee, O Jerusalem! wilt thou not be made clean? when shall it once be?"

God does not hesitate to call any sin by its right name, but the moment even the worst sinner comes to repentance, He will abundantly pardon, and cleanse them completely.

Many people, BS & FWS alike, having been crying a woe over Magpie, hoping she will see the magnitude of her sin. Even the most zealous seem to have the goal of wanting her at a place where she is willing to receive help.

Broken Bird, you are looking in the best possible direction for wisdom. If you follow the example God has given us time and again in His word, you will first call out for a repentance and turning away from the sin, then if that does not occur, cut off the blessings she receives from you, including that of knowing your presence. God did this so many times with the Israelites, yet when they returned to Him, He pardoned them IF they were truly sorry. Without trying to excuse or minimize their sins, He forgave them.

Prayers for both of you.

Wow, I thought my first wife was a piece of work.

BB, move on with your life with your child.

If Magpie returns, don't let her near you without STD and pregnency testing (I read you LM). Have her live somewhere else, and if you both really want to reconnect, start dating again and see how you both feel on the subject.

If she stays away, go into a dark Plan B and work on a Plan D.

Hi, magpie.

I'm not going to thrash you about. I am going to tell you a simple basic truth. I hope that you are still here reading.

What you are doing right now, you will regret for the rest of your life. If you stop it now, you will regret it less.

My guilt is over 30 years old. I am 50 years old. Even though I am forgiven, my past is always with me. The guilt is always right there, just waiting for an opportunity to jump up and get at me.

The guilt you are going to encounter with your child is going to be almost more than you can mentally bear.

Stop what you are doing before you find out the truth of what I have told you.

Gimble

How's it going BB? Hope things are okay with you.

Hi Believer -

Thanks for asking. Today was m first "down" day since Sunday. Not sure what triggered it, or if it was a series of events. Probably the fact that I'm running on 2 hours of sleep in the last 36 or so doesn't help.

The downward slip started this afternoon, and I have not been able to shake it for any significant period of time. I can shake it a bit while in prayer, but I've been unable to stay in prayer today - I've prayed often, but I haven't been able to pray long. I've talked with friends and relatives, and my wife. About the only thing that seems to have worked today is writing in my journal (which I just started Tuesday night). I guess the effort required to form my thoughts in a coherent manner helps to keep my mind from wandering.

Hopefully a good night's sleep will help. I think I've managed to run the full circle of emotions today, and some at the same time. Bizzare. Also got hit pretty hard tonight when I got to thinking about how much damage I did to my marriage. I've got to get out of the past if I'm going to change the future. God migh be timeless, but He can't do a whole lot for me if I'm stuck looking back. Besides, I'd hate to have Lot's wife's fate <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm hanging in there though. I'm not going to throw in the towel yet. My wife returns early Saturday evening, and I'm looking forward to both her return and the opportunity to start working on this relationship together. I've spent enough time in limbo, thank you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sorry if this is rambling. It's just been one of those days.

NOTE: I had intended to post this earlier, but I gave my wife the opportunity to look at it in case there was anything (factual information wise) that she objected to, and she didn't get back to me until this evening.

Ok…..hopefully I can make some sense here (I’m running on two hours sleep). I’ve just finished reading through all the posts in this thread through 9 AM US West Coast time.

First, let me state again that I understand that everyone here is speaking passionately from their hearts and experience in an attempt to help myself and my wife in rebuilding our marriage. I do not agree with the tone of some of the posters, but I recognize that the desire to stop this madness is genuine.

I will attempt to answer some questions that have been directed at me, clarify my position, and respond to a few things that really grabbed my attention. Before I begin, I would like to thank believer, vanasvegen, ManInMotion and shinethrough for their posts (there may be a few others, but those spring to mind). A lot of posts have come across, to me at least, as hateful. I understand that there is a lot of hate for the sins that are going on or have occurred, and there should be. But sometimes it’s hard to separate the hate of the sin from the hate of the person. Also FlukeBoy, who I’ve had e-mail exchange with. I do not have a problem with people who have an opinion different from mine, but I do not like them trying to shove it down my throat (ironically, that was one of my Love Busters with my wife. Guess I don’t like my own medicine, huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ).

Ladysheep asked:

This one isn’t quite a yes or no question. The OM was a friend of mine (that is no longer the case). I met him through one of my recreational interests, and had frequent contact (e-mail and chat) with him in the course of that shared interest. This continued until 2 or 3 weeks ago, and I have left that particular recreational interest (not directly because of him, but because it was to high on my priority list compared to my family and therefore needed to go).

While our recreational contact continued, I stopped chatting with him immediately. I sent him one e-mail, telling him that I was going to focus on my marriage and would decide what to do about our friendship later (this was within 2 or 3 weeks of my wife admitting the affair to me). I had an additional e-mail contact with him after my wife came clean with everything that had happened (and was still going on, via chat and phone), to let him know that my wife had told me everything (he had told her that if he didn’t hear from me in 5 days, he would tell me). I also asked him to give me the details (not the play by play, just a general outline of what went on) so I could bounce it off what my wife told me. He was not willing to do that, but said he would answer any yes or no questions I sent him. I did not send him any, and have not contacted him since, except to give him a tracking number for something that he sent my wife that I sent back.

I have thought about it, but I do not think it will do any good. He was my friend before he befriended my wife, he betrayed my trust, and continued to betray my trust after I found out about the first affair.

Grownup wrote:

We both know, and admit, that we have individual issues to resolve, as well as our marital issues. I’ve already addressing the “leaving it all to God” comment, but rest assured that I am actively working on changing myself. This is not just a “I want to change myself to save my marriage” change, but a genuine desire to change because there are some parts of me that have been brought into the light that I do not like.

Our kids are innocent and do not deserve to be in the mess we have put them in. I want our marriage restored and rebuilt so that they can finish growing up in a truly loving family and have the best example they can of what a marriage (and a family) is all about.

UVA wrote:

UVA, you have been the most strident in objecting to my current plan. I wholeheartedly disagree with you, but I respect your opinion and your experience. I will try and clarify my current position/plan once again. If you still feel the same way, we may have to agree to disagree on this.

I am not actively or passively accepting this trip. I do not believe God is telling me to do nothing about it. I do believe that God is telling me to continue to work on changing myself, to continue to trust fully in Him, to continue to love my wife, to continue to be here for our kids, and to wait on Him and let Him deal with the trip and my wife. You are not here (you have been through this, or something similar, but you are not here in my shoes). You have not seen how ineffective my efforts in stopping the trip were, and how much has changed (in a positive fashion) in a single week when I gave that particular issue over to God. You have not seen the many positive changes in myself that God is bringing about.

I am not standing by idly waiting for God to work some miracle. I continue to focus on the things that I know I can have a positive effect on. I continue to pray, daily, throughout the day, for my wife. I continue to reflect on what I need to change, and discover on a daily basis either new things or more information on things I already knew about. I continue to do my best to show my wife my love for her.

Contrary to what you may believe, I do have a backbone. I have told my wife that I love her and will always love her, and I will always be there for her to the best of my ability and circumstances. I have also told her that if she goes on the trip (which she has), that the above 2 items will still be true, but I cannot guarantee her and I do not know if I can continue to be her husband. I will try, but I do not know. I have told her several times that I will not, now or ever, accept, condone or approve of the trip she had planned. And if it happens again, with this OM or another, we are done – straight to Plan B then.

I told her I would not take her to the airport, nor would I pick her up from the airport if she stayed the intended duration and returned. I told her I would allow her contact with our kids whenever she wanted, and if she wanted to talk to me I would be willing if I was emotionally ready to, but I would not initiate any contact with her. I told her that I wanted to believe her when she said she would be back, but I would not fully believe it until she was back.

Yes, she is there right now. And I have talked with her a lot while she has been there. The first time she went there (when the affair first became a PA), we had very little communication, and most of it was initiated by me.

Dr. Harley states that the BS cannot end the affair (short of taking actions of, at the very least, a dubious moral stature and most likely highly illegal). It must die a natural death. If you want to believe that I am enabling this (actively or passively), then try to view it as me doing some variation of Plan B, or a cross between Plan A and Plan B.

We have a very long way to go. I believe, however shakily or “not in sync with the program” we may be, that we have begun. I know I have, and I truly believe that she wants to (despite her current actions). I will not work on this marriage by myself forever, and she knows that.

UVA followed up with:

There are no benefits. I never said (or at least I never intended to imply or say) that there were. When she dropped the news on me that she was going to see the OM for 2 weeks, I told her that if she did that it would totally destroy all the gains (however small) we had made in restoring our marriage. In fact, it would most likely set us even further back. It would totally destroy any sense of intimacy I had with her (at that point, I had not yet realized that my sexual sin/obsession had already destroyed her sense of intimacy with me. Want to talk about self-respect as a man or ego? Try realizing that your own stupid, selfish, immature, immoral, unchristian sexual desires had degraded your wife, reduced her to an object in some part of your mind, and completely stripped her of intimate feelings for you and destroyed the one thing she wanted above all else – a monogamous relationship with her husband. When that finally hit home late last week, I felt like someone had just punched me in the gut. I was, and still am, sick at what I did and the incredible hurt I inflicted upon my wife with this.)

I have requested that when she returns we sit down together and draft a no contact e-mail to the OM, which we will send jointly from my account. I told her to tell him to expect it. I want the NC e-mail for my own sense of closure. She has agreed to this.

This trip will hurt me, it will hurt our kids, and it will hurt her. It will make our restoration and rebuilding more difficult. But it is not insurmountable.

Bigkahuna followed up MelodyLane’s comment about the two kinds of WS’s:

I’m curious as to what category you feel my wife does fall into?

I’ll try to wrap things up, since this is a long post. There are many reasons why we are in this mess today. I have contributed a lot to our marital problems, and I ignored or paid little heed to my wife’s pleas, warnings and other signs of trouble. Nothing I did or did not do justifies the affair – I know that, and she knows that. We have a lot to go through and resolve, and the affair will be part of that.

Right now, I am not feeling a lot of anger or hurt. I may be burying myself in the “work” of rebuilding our marriage, I may be receiving peace from God to get through the current situation, or I may be repressing it (or a combination of all 3). I do not want to repress it. Repressing my feelings is one of the things that got us here to start with (unresolved grief and anger over the deaths of my parents, especially my mom). I will be bringing this fear (repressing feelings about the affair) up with our counselor the next time I see him.

I have, and will continue, to change. I no longer shut my wife out regarding my feelings and thoughts. I am now totally open with her and do not suppress my feelings (at least not intentionally…I have a lot of bad habits to undo).

I am here, and my wife is here, because we genuinely do want to restore and rebuild our marriage. I realize that many of you do not believe that, on the part of my wife and/or on the part of me. I understand why, even if I don’t agree with all of your reasons.

It is my intention to continue to post and participate in these forums. I hope you will allow me.

Thank you all for your prayers and concern. It is my belief, based on recent experience, that prayer, numerous and constant from many sources, has been the biggest weapon my wife and I have had in even beginning to restore and rebuild.

brokenbird

BB, just a simple question and I asked Magpie the same thing.

As I'm an FWW and been there done that, don't you think what I have to say has some validity?

I truly want to help you both.

Jen

Hi KiwiJ -

You'll have to forgive me (well, you don't have to)....this thread got busy real fast, and I may have overlooked something you said. I'll take a look again and reply, though it may not be tonight, as I really should get some sleep.

KiwiJ -

I only see two posts from you, and they both dealt more or less directly with my wife.

I'm willing to listen to what people, including you, want to say and/or share, but I'm not sure I got anything out of the two I just looked at.

Of course, I can be dense as a brick at times (just ask my wife), so don't be afraid to point out the obvious.

I will have to say that this post tonight has been hurtful and helpful if that is possible. I have really felt for bb and his wife. I feel that it is helpful to hear how the bs thinks and reasons during an affair. It helps me to understand the term FOG in a way that I never have. I know of someone who had an affair and was truly repentant and sorry. When I found out my husband was having an affair I called her. She was so helpful because she helped me to understand how my husband was totally "snowed" She just kept saying when he comes out of this he will be so sorry but right now he is on Pluto. I don't mean this in a hateful way I just think your wife is off on Pluto. I feel sorry for her but angry too. It hurts so badly to be betrayed. I know that she hurts as well but continuing in the A doesn't seem to be a solution

what are the ages of your children?

Hi julieco -

We have a son 11 (hers) and a daughter 3 (ours). Our son knows we're having problems (and seeking counseling) because we've told him, and is concerned that we'll get divorced. I'm not sure exactly what effect it has on my daughter, but her behavior has definately been off the last couple of nights. Mostly the last couple of nights its been when is mommy coming home (last night - Wednesday - was especially bad. She threw a complete fit about wanting mommy home now, but it was also late (for her) and she didn't get to do something she wanted to do).

It sounds like your husband is still in the fog. I hope he emerges soon.

The 11 year old would know, they are so perceptive. Did you read the article on what children learn from an affair? It is really good. I don't want to sound uncaring about your wife, nor do I want to judge you as a parent but I am so concerned about you children and how this will effect especially the 11 year old later on. I have probably stayed in my relationship about two years too long. I understand how you feel though. I, after hearing your story, really thought about my relationship with my husband and if I were truly honest with myself would probably stay with him nomatter what if I had not seen how it was effecting my kids. Sometimes we "stay together for our kids" and sometimes we must leave for our kids. Or should I say let go for our kids.

It is so late an I am really tired so that may not make any sense to you. I have had a rough night with my 18 year old getting ready to go back to school and can't sleep so this is my therapy.