Ok, wh came over this morning for christmas with the kids. It went pretty ok. No fighting, no comments. Just his presents for the kids and theirs for him. I prayed real hard that this go ok and that I handle it ok. A few things were a little hard, like I noticed the tags were NOT written in wh handwriting so apparently ow wrapped for him and signed his name. tacky.... but he probably figured I wouldn't notice. Grr... and he brought a digital camera with him to take pix of kids... a present I am assuming from her for christmas. Again, don't know that for sure but I am sure they exchanged gifts. But all in all I am very proud of us for being so adult in this. I used his camera to take some pix of him and the kids and the dog. He stayed for 2 hours, helped himself to some coffee, put a few of the kids toys together. After about the first 45 minutes he seemed to relax and be ok. even encouraged the kids to show me what he had gotten them. The kids gave him the memory book we had made him. I wrote a poem in the front cover (I am really good at writing stuff). A poem from the kids to him. It is a book for him to take to his 4 month tour in Iraq starting next month. Filled with 9 years worth of photos of kids and his family. Took a lot of work to make. On the back page I put a note from me. Very simple. I typed out the words to Garth Brooks "the dance". That song holds a lot of meaning for wh and to me it was what I wanted to say to h before he leaves. I put a note at the top that said something like, "like the song says, I could have missed the pain but I'd have had to miss the dance, and I am so glad I didn't miss the dance" I told him I would pray for his safe return and that when he gets home I hoped he could live out all his dreams and that he had so much potential I hoped he had the chance to live to his fullest." and lastly that, no matter what, I was not sorry I had married him.

He didn't say anything to me about it but I know he will look at that book and he will do some thinking. I tried to have the kids give him things that were meaningful. Wh on the other hand never took kids to get me anything for christmas, not even a card signed by them for me. Oh well, very rarely did he ever do this for me so why would I expect it now. I don't.

My question is this.... How can wh tell me as recently as last May when we had one of our talks, that what went on with him and ow starting in the fall was nothing but a bunch of b.s., that basically she was a ho. Other members of the fire dept think she is a ho and said that my h had said he would use her as long as she was stupid enuff to be used. he told me he wanted nothing more to do with her and that if she had not contacted him he never would have contacted her again. but since she had he figured ya, why not. He said he lost his last ounce of self respect when he slept with her last year while she was still very married. that he just didn't care about anything anymore, was disgusted with his life..... and yet now he has been back with her since he moved out, has been living with her since the fall when he was asked to leave his other residence. they spend time together, he went to her family's for thanksgiving. How can she think she is ok now? did he stop thinking she was a tramp? did his feelings about her change? did he go from disrespecting her to now respecting and loving her? I don't get it... can someone please explain this to me? I am very confused how on one side she can be a ho to him, cause him to lose his selfrespect, etc, but she seems to be his everything now. maybe everything is a bad term but you know what I mean. I don't see any end to it. I don't see him saying he is definitely finding his own place when he returns from iraq. I am sure he bought her gifts for xmas, etc. I just don't get this. How can you love someone or see a forever with someone who last fall and this spring you had no respect for and bragged about how easy she was to use? maybe he is just in his same place of being down and not repectful of himself. can someone help me here on this?

Like I said, the last month has gone much better for us getting along wise. I, in part, think I had something to do with this just by being nicer to him. You attract more bees with honey type of thinking. He stayed longer this morning than I had expected and he even had coffee. I know he did go to work today. (unlike on thanksgiving when he lied to us and said he had to work but didn't and went to her parents). Now he could get our early today. And I think he may have taken yesterday off so he may have gone to her famliy's at some point, don't know. I am just trying to understand some things.

Lastly, I emailed him today with my schedule for the week and when he would have kids. And in it I thanked him for coming over, how happy the kids were, how great I thought we had done. I told him that I wanted a truce, that I just couldn't hate anymore. That I would protect our children to the end from any hurt I can, but that for me I could not hate. That the song in his book to me said that I will remember the happy moments in our marriage and that yes, I could have done without all the pain of the last few years and the here and now, but if I had never been with him I would not have 2 great kids and a mindfull of happy memories, so even though there is pain I am so not sorry we are married.

any input here??? mlhb

mlhb:

Good questions all around. The stand pat textbook answer here may be that he is "addicted" and that this isn't him and is the evil OW making him do this... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

But seriously.....your cheating husband has a moral value set that is on a sliding scale. He adjusts his moral view on things based on what makes him feel good. You are asking rational questions based on an irrational man's actions.

Truthfully, your WH has no respect for himself, you, your children or the Other Woman.

Everyone in his life is in the $hit basket. Including himself.

Now, you asked how can he resepct her now and live with her after saying what he had said back then (that she was a ho), but the same thing could be said for YOU and many other Betrayed Spouses.

How could you take him back after all of the disrespect and devestation that he has caused in your and your childrens lives? I am sure that many a OW/OM think the same thing about the Betrayed Spouse.

There aren't many answere to your questions, just more questions... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

huh? Whose "textbook' says this? I have been here for 4-5 years and have never seen anyone make this assertion. And I don't think you understand the concept of addiction as it relates to adultery. For some strange reason you view this as blame shifting which tells me you don't understand what Harley means. Do you know anything about the dynamics of addiction?

LM, have you ever read any of the Harley books? Surviving an Affair? His Needs, Her Needs? Lovebusters? Which books have you read?

I will be sure to respond to you tomorrow ml when I have more time..

Good questions...with no easy answers...

Sorry you have to go through this...

I heard almost the EXACT SAME WS Bullcrap...

Lemonman, this is the dictionary definition of addiction that applies. Please explain how most affairs DO NOT meet this definition:

The condition of being habitually or compulsively occupied with or or involved in something.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=addiction

Thanks, Mel...

He may not answer, though...

I call him the LONE RANGER...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sigh.......Naw mel, I am not in the mood for this tonight....please can we do this another night when I have had less familial chaos.

I have read Harley's Surviving an affair. I was being fecetious in a way with the original commnet, ok, so lighten up.

Yes, addictions do play a component to these affairs, but so does bad character and just "bad people" who are riddled with weak character and no spine. It's not one or the other, but usually both with the preponderance of on taking the lead.

K

Lem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sounds ok, Ok I agree with all that you say......You MelonyLane are addicted to these Message Boards, Mimi1254 is addicted to listenting to recovery tapes while she exercises on her treadmill <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />, I am addicted to watching NFL football, and buying 400.00 fountain pens.

Sigh......but it is all good.

It X-mas time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Lem

Who would disagree with this? But it has nothing to do with the addictive quality of an affair so I don't understand the relevence of your remark. When people are describing affairs as addictive, they are making a factual statement and nothing more.

This fact seems to bother you for some strange reason. Does it bother you also when I point out that affairs are SLEAZY and IMMORAL? That is simply a statement of FACT.

I honestly don't understand your attitude towards this.

$400 for a PEN??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

My thoughts on why he is able to continue this affair are somewhat different than the others, aside from the fact that he is caught up in an addictive, unhealthy, unholy relationship...and that it will not last, we all agree on that I think.

Basically he is a lost mess, and needs to go through some chit.

I think you handled Christmas very well. Very good Plan A behavior and you can believe that he will take it with him when he is deployed for four months.

Make sure now that you concentrate on you and getting your life on track without him. Set goals and plans for yourself, not to win your husband back although if this is what you want your chances would be very good, but do it so that you stay strong and are building a good life you and your children.

Your own recovery, sanity and happiness are what should be your number one goal. And if he jumps back on board great, if not then you will have a good life anyway, and children who have a strong and happy mother.

thank you all for your input. I will be interested to hear what others have to say... or "read" I should say. Read what others have to say.... mlhb

and response to you Lemon... I agree with most of what you say. But, when you asked how can we BS take back a WS in response to my saying how could he go back to and be with someone like her after the things he said about her.... well, I share 10 years, 2 children, a mortgage, a life with him. That is how I can take hime back, with much work of course, because there is a history..... What do they have? they share selfishness, they share the fact they are both cheaters, they share lack of respect for others or themselves. I guess you go and be with others who are like you. Misery loves company. Maybe he thinks he doesn't deserve any better although he really does seem to like being with her for all they do together. It just seems to smell like a relationship to me... goes to her parents house (I hear they have chosen to tolerate him for their daughter's sake), they do things together, they share holidays, etc... I guess that is why I ask what I ask.... I wonder if all affairs look this way?... mlhb

bumping

Sorry. I put this quote up here again but I needed to refer to it as I post back to you. Basically, ML, I've been responding to you on the other thread since I think there's a chance that my viewpoint is misperceived as coming from me. I have studied and practiced the Harley approach spelled out in Surviving an Affair. You should see how highlighted my Harley books are..I'm compulsive that way about this...

My FWH's A started like your WH's..a fling..some fun..free sex with a HO..but he got caught up into it..once caught..he fell "in love"..he developed an EMOTIONAL ATTACHMMENT to the OW..

Once that attachment happens, the OW is seen as ALL-POWERFUL, WONDERFUL, THE FANTASY, PERFECT WOMAN..that's the ADDICTION, yes ADDICTION. Who wouldn't be SPELL-BOUND by the PERFECT MATE? Funny, now like your WH, my FWH says that it WAS ALL BS..She REALLY isn't what she seemed at the time..

Your WH is caught up in the AFFAIR ADDICTION. It is explained in Surviving an Affair. Do you have that book?