Pepper:

With all due respect to you, how can you say that all Ws's have sex. Many men and women on these boards have said their relationship never made it to the sex stage and many stated they could justify their affair as close friendships because they never got physical. How can you dispute so many claims from these board posterss and from the words of Dr. Harley himself. He too says, many affairs do not involve sex, but they do involve sexual chemistry. I am curious what you might say or why you lump them all together. I don't believe they all have sex but I believe many are emotionally involved and they feel love, but they don't always consumate the relationship with sex.

TooSoon

With all due respect to you, how can you say that all Ws's have sex.

[b]Sorry to be less than crystal clear ... I am NOT saying all WS's have sex ... what I am attempting to say is ... WS's who have had sex most of them (not all) lie about that fact. That part of the confession comes very painfully and reluctantly forward.

Does that help? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Yes that helps. The boards don't always say what we mean.

TooSoon

this_hrts: How are you doing? Thinking of you..

ty for checking on me weneedhelp,
I had planned on posting an update today but ended up busy at work and haven't gotten the chance. So much stuff has happened and we've been way down and sometimes up...but as of now we're hanging in there. I can't say I am as optimistic about working this out with him as I was at first...maybe it's the anger kicking in...more than likely it's because of a couple of major discoveries I made recently...last week was the longest of my life...and this still hurts...
I'll try to get time this evening or in the morning to give a proper update..I've been trying to spend as much time with H as possible and he feels ignored when I get on the computer without him...I promise I'll get back soon....thanks for the thoughts

(((this_hurts)))

I am sorry to hear that there is more to the story. Stick around here, it is the best place to be.

Welcome to the rollercoaster that is now your life.

The recovery process is a cycle. Sometimes, you think you will be ok and other times you doubt you'll make it til the next day.

Does it help at all to know we all go through this?

Hang in there. You can do this/

I can’t believe it’s only been a little over two weeks since this all started….so in this time, we have talked A LOT… about why I think it happened..(needs not being met, etc.) he's read a good part of HNHN, apologized over and over again and we decided we were going to work hard to get past this...been having lots of sex (something I had let slack recently), lots of talking, lots of crying, lots of guilt from him...then about a week ago I looked at his credit card bill and saw a charge from a jewelry store for $105..(I got nothing personal from him for Christmas, certainly not jewelry)..called him hysterically and asked wtf this was about....he got very very mad about me looking at his credit card bill, something I never did before, but hey!...that's what happens when you cheat and lie... he said it just hurt me more and it was from before he told me he would break it off…he was very angry…

He finally told me that he had bought her a 'chain' and that she had made him a blanket for Christmas. I know he was in that town the Friday before Christmas (only for about 1/2 hour from what i can see from his logs), so I guess that's when they exchanged...God it still makes me sick to think about it...I told him I wanted the blanket and he agreed. Turned out, he had to go to this area a couple of days later and he told me that he didn't want to throw it away, that he would rather give it back to her..at the time I thought it might be a good idea...we put a letter with it saying that he was returning it out of respect for me and our marriage…then she would know he was removing her from his life...now I'm not so sure...but what's done is done I suppose...he was very good about calling me that day when he got there, while he was there, when he left, etc...

So that was last Friday. We had a pretty good beginning to the weekend, he reinforced to me that I was the one he wanted to be with, that he loved me, and the whole thing was a huge mistake that he is very very sorry for. We went out to lunch Saturday and had a great talk, he told me some more details about her that I'd been wanting to find out and was very sweet at lunch..lookign in my eyes and telling me what sexy green eyes I had..how he loves me so very much and it's over with her .. period...

ooookay, so Sunday morning something made me look in his wallet, found a phone card in there...my worse nightmare come true..I was shaking and about to give up on all this ******, I am soooo tired of feeling like this already ya know?..
So...confront him again and he gets really pissed about me snooping...tells me that he had to buy that card because he felt bad about breaking it off with her in a five minute phone call...he said he had to talk to her so she wouldn't start calling the house or do something stupid. he knew I'd freak if he used the cell phone, so he bought a phone card..talked to her for about an hour on it and that was the end...tells me ONCE AGAIN that it is over with her, he doesn't want to be with her, he wants to be with me, even said he doesn't even really care about her but he knew she was hurt too and he feels bad enough hurting two people. I said, so you made my pain worse just so you could relieve hers a little....which one of us is more important to you?? He say's You are.....Whatever

I told him not to feel so bad for her..at least she had a choice to get involved with a married man and if she was that stupid, she deserves what pain she gets..I on the other hand, have had her dumped into my life without warning...I thnk I may have called her a 'loser' for being a 34 year old single woman who set her hopes on a married man...stupid slut...

So by the end of the day, I had gotten so tired of feeling like crap, I went out and cried my eyes out on the porch...shook myself off and decided that I will give this ONE more chance...told him that I would 'try' hard to stop snooping because I know it's a big deal for him to be trusted...he can buy another phone card any time he wants and I could snoop till my eyes fell out and if he wanted to talk to her, he would. so....I said, 'I realize that if you can look me in the eye and tell me it's over, if you can make love to me, and tell me you love me,,,if you can do all those things and still sneak around to talk to her, then you aren't nearly the man I think you are...and truthfully, not a man I want to be with..so this is your last chance with my heart....looked him dead in the eye and said...don't break it again...I want this out of my life, I want it over and past so that I can heal for real, you have no idea how bad this hurts and I won't live this way..I can't live this way, it has to END..NOW...I want to be happy again, and be able to smile and laugh again..I just want my life back'...
he teared up and promised me this was it, that he hadn't talked to her since that one call and gave me the phone card...I did check on the day it was activated and the minutes used, and at least that part checks out....except the part where he had it in his wallet..if he wasn't going to use it over the weekend, why not just leave it in his truck?..guess I'll never know the answer to that one..
I’m just hoping that he really does feel like a piece of crap over what he did like he claims…and that if he wants to be the good man he used to be, he can do that…it’s all up to him now…

I have to admit that I haven’t really done a very good plan A, I’ve been way to angry and have thrown snide remarks and DJ’s around way more than I should have…I’m going to try harder now though, because this is it for me….I won’t be stopping the snooping…the only difference is, if I find anything again..I won’t be confronting him..except with a plan B letter…

I'm reading SA right now and we are trying to find a quiet time for us to go over the HNHN questionaires...I do wonder about exposure though...I am not planning on doing that yet, but he did mention that nobody at work knew about them and one of them would probably get fired if they found out...I know he would be embarrassed by it. I don't want to do exposure now that he seems like he's trying to do the right thing....but if I find out they are still in contact, would it be ok for me to expose them at work before I tell him to hit the road with a plan B letter? Or would that ruin all the work I hope to be doing with Plan A..?

Hey girl,
I know you have been up and down. It is tough.

Here are a few things to think about:

REALLY try the Plan A. Maybe you need to make sticky with "NO LBs" "NO DJ" etc. I have faith you can do this.
Try biting your tongue. It helps. I do it all the time at MIL's house <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You'll need ice to stop the bleeding, but it helps.

I think you should give Plan A a very good try before thinking about plan b. As hard as it would be, Dr. H says 3 months, I believe.

As for exposure, as long as you can see there is no contact (and yes, I think you need to keep snooping), let it ride right now. However, if you find any evidence of him contacting her or her him, then yes, contact the employer.

You know one of the things that keeps being brought up on here is changing jobs to put distance between the WS and OP. Would it be possible for him to ask for a different route? Does he have a good relationship with the dispatcher, so he could ask not to go to that terminal any more? He's probably not the only driver, so maybe the dispatcher could arrange for him to avoid that terminal.

If you can't deal with him going there, maybe you'll need to be the one that calls the dispatcher and yes, that would be exposing. It might save your sanity.

I think you need to wallpaper his truck with photos of you and your family. I think you need to tape your photo to the calling card in his wallet, too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Make it real easy for him to think about you and make being around you a very pleasant experience. You want him to WANT to be at home and with you.

Blessings

Hi MF...
I know I need to do a real plan A, I'm just not very good at it I guess...gonna give it a good try though...it just pisses me off that he might be talking to her still...I'm hoping he's being real...
today was a plan A test for me...he went to that terminal again, but he was with another guy from work and he wasn't delivering anything (just picking up another truck) so he really didn't have any reason to see her at all. I guess I'm not suppose to ask him if he saw her?? Anyway, he called me while he was there and when he left and I made a huge effort to stay nice and sweet both times...I just called him now and he said he was almost home..I said, oh, I thought you'd be back by now..he said he had to stop to go to the bathroom and the first thing I thought was he stopped to call her with his new calling card (no, I don't know if he has one, but I wouldn't be surprised)..I didn't say anything snide about it though, although my initial reaction was to do just that...

He knows I want him to get another job, and he's not totally opposed to it..the company has been pissing him off anyway and he's said more than once that if they dont' start giving him enough miles to make some real money, he's walking...please oh please....he also said she's been looking for a new job for a while now so hopefully now that her fantasy has hit a glitch she'll find one...

Funny, I was thinkign about getting some photos of myself taken...i've lost a lot of weight in these long two weeks and I've almost taken off most of the weight I put on this past year...another couple of weeks of this upset stomach and I'll be back into size 8's again...once that happens, I'm going to seriously think about doing that...and you can bet they will be in his truck..i'll make sure of it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the encouragement to hang in there...I am not a very patient person by nature to begin with and this situation is just unbearable at times..I think I'll be ok though...

I've almost 100% decided to quit my second job, while I'm working there I really don't have the freedom to take off on runs with him, and I do want to start doing that occassionally...we also have weeks where either I'm working or he is on the road and we dont' see much of each other at all...interestingly enough, this A started within a few weeks after I started this job..I think that's a big Red Flag and a good reason to get rid of it...he has said he doesn't want me to quit, but that was back in the beginning of this...i think then he may have said that so he could still have the freedom to communicate with her., but I've been off there for over a week and I think he is enjoying our extra time together as much as I am...I think I'll bring it up again tonite..see what his reaction is...

I would love some plan A advice right now..I don't even know what I'm doing and only have the SA and HNHN books to follow, but any advice would be appreciated...
I've been workign hard at plan A..for today anyway, and I think I may be overdoing it a bit...I have lately been hugging my H whenever I feel the urge, and telling him I love him a lot more...but somehow I get the feeling that he thinks I'm overdoing it..even though it's a real feeling for me, do you think this soon into recovery (hopeful recovery anyway) I should tone it down a bit...?? he has been making comments about all the sex he's getting now, not that he seems to mind when it's happening mind you, but he is telling me that he isn't a 'touchy feely' person by nature and all the hugging and affection is too much...

I know about withdrawal and was wondering if there is an overkill when trying to meet EN's...I know he is enjoying our conversations during the day, and he calls me all the time...but I'm afraid my 'shows of affection' may be smothering him a little...I know SH says to keep trying to meet the EN's while in plan A...but how much is too much?...

btw, he isn't adverse to showing me affection when I initiate it, but he isn't initiating much and that makes me feel like crap...I in turn shut down a little and then have to force myself to 'fake it'...I dont' know if I'm doing this right at all...

You might want to back off just a bit...the "I love you"s seem to put off WS...with the embraces try just closing in on personal space but not actually touching...or stroke his cheek or arm instead.

I think one of the biggest plan A mistakes we see here (me included) is at times BS become like doormats to apease WS. Plan A means take care of yourself (most important) take care of your family, take care of your home and take care of WS (FWS). Don't make WS your total focus. Don't do ANYTHING you don't feel good about.

Thank you confused...
I started out thinking I should show as much affection as I could, but we havent' gotten a chance at filling out the EN questionaire yet, so I don't even know if that is one of his top...I did tell him that we are going to do the questionaires' this weekend no matter what...I feel like I need some guidelines here...
do you think he is uncomfortable with the shows of affection because of withdrawal, or because he really doen't need them as much as I do?
btw, he told me that he didn't even speak to the OW today at the terminal..I asked him if it was hard for him not to talk to her (is that allowed in Plan A?) and he said, it's not hard, it's just awkward being there and pretending I dont' even know her...

If A is over there should be no talking...NO CONTACT whatsoever. Withdrawl and recovery can not begin as long as there is contact...any contact.

I keeping forget to include things.
Affection may not be in his top 5 or he may like it expressed in a different way. If affection is in your top 5 then it still needs to be addressed.

<Affection may not be in his top 5 or he may like it expressed in a different way. If affection is in your top 5 then it still needs to be addressed.>
I understand that confused, and I do try to let him know that even though he may not 'need' that much affection, I do and we need to BOTH work on this...but from what I understand, SH says that us BS shouldn't expect much return from our efforts at fullfilling EN'S during withdrawal..
I don't know what I can do about he occasional contact with the OW until H changes jobs, I was thinking that it was good that he was at least trying not to interract with her when they do have contact...am I kidding myself?

do you think he is uncomfortable with the shows of affection because of withdrawal, or because he really doen't need them as much as I do?
btw, he told me that he didn't even speak to the OW today at the terminal..I asked him if it was hard for him not to talk to her (is that allowed in Plan A?) and he said, it's not hard, it's just awkward being there and pretending I dont' even know her>>
What do you think this is all about?

Hey there,
I know it is hard to let him go to the terminal. It is only for a few minutes that he has to be there and not even a daily basis, but still hard. Hopefully, she did give her notice and won't be there much longer. If not, do some of the thiings we talked about earlier.

As for the affection thing, just ask him. Tell him you just feel the need to be very close to him, but don't want him to feel smothered. Let him give you direction.

Feel like you are on tight rope? I know, been there.

Hang on. It is quite a ride, but you'll make it.

Thank you MF..you're the best...

What was he like before? My H used to love to come up behind me and hug me when I was doing dishes or cooking, and he loved the full body embrace.The kids would try to break us apart. We held hands all the time. WH won't hold my hand, kiss me...if I get a hug its a lean in kind or a one armed hug...after what he use to give me...I'd rather do without then get a half hearted one. Right now it is probably a combination of both.

It sounds like he's trying. Tell him you are glad he told you about it.

I just feel the need for some direction....I dont[' know if Im doing this right at all!..
Everytime I say something about 'feelings' needs' etc, he says...you need to quit reading those books.....