Post deleted by bitter2sweet

Hi, I am her husband. What is not understood here is that I did try to get her attention for years. I would try to talk to her and all I would get is "I don't know" or no response. I suggested a few times that she get help. I even tried to help her organize so that she could get the work done. She showed that to a woman at the church and they both laughed at me in front of eveybody there. I tried to bring her flowers one time to just say "I love you" and try to get my feelings going. That is all that was intended. But her response was "thats not going to get me in bed with you"! And the incident with the knife... She was close enough for me to have my arm in the air in self defence! And she also hit me with a tin can full of flowers that day as well.

What am I supposed to do?! Domestic violence is a progressive behavior. Looking back through the years it has progressed. There was a time about 10 years ago that she was hitting me alot. Until I told her "if you hit me again this marriage will be over"! She didn't hit me for some time after that, but here we are again. And I have my daughters to think about. The cemetaries are full of people who didn't think it would really come to that. I DON'T INTEND TO LET MY CHILDREN OR MYSELF END UP THAT WAY! I don't know what else to do. I am exhausted after all these years of pain. I know I am not the best of husbands, but everything I have been doing was for her and the kids. That has been my heart all along. There are a few other discrepencies of how she expressed what is going on, but I think this is long enough. If anybody thinks I am wrong about how I feel, please say something.

Post deleted by bitter2sweet

b2s and a4a; You should feel good about having gotten started here. And about your posts. You needed to get that off your chest. It should help to get it down on paper, so that you don't have to say or repeat it to each other.

I see that one of you has been here awhile. So you know that you've come to a healing place. In the short time I've been here (6 months) I've seen many succeed. You can too. With MB help, my own marriage situation has gone from a terrible place to the point where we can talk with each other, care for each others' feelings, and work towards a better marriage. I believe we will succeed.

Can I suggest you both read not just the discussion forum threads, but also the background letters and commentary? As you may have seen, there is a ton of very useful information here. For example, eliminating LoveBusters. That alone will get you a good start on healing your marriage.

I'm a newbie myself, but if you don't mind I'd venture some suggestions. Mostly it's marriage counselor 101 stuff. I'm not qualified as anything more than an experienced amateur, but I think this will help most people. E.g. try just talking with each other. Not about history or facts or fault, just talk. Start with SHORT conversations with a preset time limit; maybe no more than 15 minutes at first. No interruptions. No yelling. No sarcasm or irony, just short simple declarative sentences. If one of you violates those ground rules the meeting is ended even if the 15 minutes is not yet up. Reschedule before leaving.

Listen and REPEAT what the other has said; in order to be sure that your point and your spouses points have been understood. In reading the postings above I see words like 'tell' or 'told' a lot, but not so many 'heard' or 'listened'. Can I suggest you both concentrate on listening to each other - rather than telling each other - and taking to heart what you are hearing? Maybe even take notes and write down the key points your spouse made?


No 'you' talk, e.g. no 'you did this' or 'you should do that'. Keep it to 'I feel' talk. e.g. 'I feel disappointed when you don't show that you've heard what I say'.

In those talks, do not find fault or blame in your spouse. Each should think about his or her own fault and talk about that. Have goodwill towards each other. Think about why you married in the first place, talk about your best shared experiences and build from there.

Other much more experienced MB posters will chime in with a ton of useful information. Like myself, they may not be able to absorb much of your marital history. You've been working on it 16 years, while MB posters have only seen it for one day. Please don't expect posters here to fully understand all you have to say. Besides, it's not the detailed history that matters, it's what's in your heart.

Another thought; As I read them, your letters are completely from your head. Sure your heart is driving your writing, but it seems a bit like you write and probably interact from your head. Can you try again from the heart? Each of you write what you've FELT (not thought or said or what happened, but what you've FELT) during the good years of your marriage? Words will always fail a relationship. Debating or reiterating details will always fail you. But if you can touch each others' hearts you will succeed.

You both want to suceed, or you wouldn't be here. But desire isn't enough by far. You need to be willing to work, and work, and work, and work. Not all at once; just a little bit at a time spread over several months. Desire plus willingness to work together will go a long way. With time, work, and goodwill you can build a new better marriage.

Trust in the lord; ask him what he is calling you to do, and try hard to listen and understand what he is telling you. Not your will, but his.

I hope you will continue here. MB can help you.

Like I often do, I recommend you post on the Emotional Needs board. You will find more participation there. This portion of the board doesn't have nearly as many people reading and posting as some other parts do.

I second that. You need responses from more than just myself and cinderella, and there you will have a better chances at getting the help you both badly need.

Okay, so I'm posting here. I am limited and can't handle two threads. This one deserves to continue. Traffic or no, you'll be found and read.

And I just posted a response on the "simple question" thread...gave it my heart...and it was eaten by the etherworld.

I'm a tad frustrated. Arrrrrgggghhhhhhh. (Not an angry outburst, I promise. More of a grimace of pain as an audible.)

:::::

Before I recreate anything, would you two mind posting something, each of you? I have a fear that I will really sink my heart (twice) into this and no one will care. My fear. Asking for your help.

I asked you two some questions on the other thread. I'll check both of these threads tomorrow for responses. I don't know if Anxious could move the thread to General Questions, but I think that would be best. Maybe he could ask a moderator for help?

LA

Post deleted by bitter2sweet

That's a nice post b2s and a terrific message to send to your WH and to yourself.

I hope you'll forgive me for an uninformed opinion. I don't know your situation well at all, but I feel the following is the right thing to say. I'm trying to help, and if I'm off base please accept my apologies.

Anyway, somebody needs to note that your H is probably reading that post and saying 'talk is cheap'. To put it another way, (as Yoda said) 'there is no try there is only do'. That phrase is very meaningful. Trying is nice, intentions are nice, wanting to do things right is nice, and it's great to desire to be the best wife ever. But those count for nothing - zero - until translated into action. DOING and succeeding is what counts. I doubt your H can hear or believe your intentions or vice versa given your history with him and his history with you.

May I make a suggestion? Change your internal thinking to say 'I am DOING this right now today' and 'This ACTION I am taking right now is the new me'. And then make it stick. Not the intention or thought, but the ACTION, the DOING. If you can make it stick and demonstrate via action to your H every day that you can make it stick, then you have a chance to save your M. If you don't have that strength then go to God and ask his help. Do that anyway. With his help you can do it.

No crying, no yelling, no sarcasm, no inaction, no sloth, no staying up late, no criticism, no complaints, nothing negative. Talk calmly, lovingly, gently and positively to him. And he should do the same to you. Just step up to the plate and be your very best. And he should do the very same. Show each other via ACTION that you care. No excuses if you want to succeed.

This needs to be a radical change in the way you conduct your daily interactions. Each and every action or interaction should be different from now on. A real break from the past. A new you demonstrated daily through action.

Post deleted by bitter2sweet

Where do you think his heart is right now? What do you think he is feeling?

Hmmm, good question. He says he doesn't even know, and that he needs more time to think it through, but that he's trying get his heart to feel something.

You don't need me to say that's your challenge. You already know you are called to dedicate yourself to helping him with that.

My WW and I have had the worst year ever. Very glad to see 2005 go away. But one good thing that came of it was the realization that she is the most important thing in the world to me. I remember a few months ago our MC asked us each that question. I really fumbled it at the time. It took awhile, but finally it's as clear as anything could ever be. She is definitely without a shadow of a doubt the most important thing to me.

So what? So armed with that knowledge I've been conducting myself differently. Every day. I still fail, but I'm not 'trying', I am doing. I have stopped the behaviors she found most onerous, and I have been doing things she will like. Every day. Over time my WW's doubts about my dedication to her will decrease, and her love for me will increase. I am 100% convinced of that. I think it will work for you too - IF you know that your H is the most important thing in the world to you. Is he?

Yes!! He's my main motivation now, although I realize he should have been all along, and I really want to hold onto the hope that this can work out.

From the sound of things this isn't the right time to put that question to your H. Doesn't matter; him being the most important thing to you means that his importance does NOT depend on his answer to that same question. Over time he will come to realize that you are the most important thing to him as well.

So he is more important than staying up late, he outweighs the pain and drudgery of housework, staying within the budget to keep him happy outweighs spending, etc etc etc. Every day you have the opportunity to prove to yourself (with him watching in amazement) that he is the most important thing in the world to you.

That's what I'm doing for my WW. For me, tracking my failures has worked; kind of an Alcoholics Anonymous model perhaps? I'm not in AA, but I believe AA counts each day as another day, and AA participants keep track of how many days since the last failure. On 13th June - the day after our Dday - I came to realize that a daily behavior of mine was causing my W serious heartache. She had told me many times before that, but I'm such a flawed person that it took a real wakeup call for me to fully truly understand.

Since then I have done better every day. I write down my failures; June 29th, August 28, Sept 28, Nov 3. Nov 15 was the most recent, so now 6 weeks ago. Yes I fail sometimes, but I succeed almost every day. And eventually I will have no more failures.

A second behavior of mine (Angry Outbursts) occurred perhaps 5 or 6 times a year. Since 13 June, only twice despite incredible pressures on both of us.

A different behavior of mine was even more troubling to my W; I've had no failures on that one since 13 June. And I will go the rest of my M without a failure. It's that important to our M, and she's that important to me.

I don't know what works for you, but if you were to adopt a program like this, with checks each and every day to make sure you have done the right thing that day, I can't help but think that your H will feel the difference very soon. Your thoughts?

Well, on another board whose focus is getting our lives together along with our house, some of the women use stickers on their calendars to track their successes in doing whatever new habit they're trying to establish, and I think that could work for me too. Right now I need to focus on the positive, so I will track things like going to bed at a decent hour and getting things done around the house.

Oh, while writing this response just now, I had a phone call from a friend from that other list who gave me all kinds of ideas to get me started and also offered to come over one day next week to give me a hand. I do have a good support network here; I just wish I had reached out sooner than this.

Great idea. With your M in desperate straits, you need to suceed 100% of the time. No - zero - days without stickers! Even before that, make your commitments to yourself. 'As of today I am doing A, B, C, D, and E every single day without fail'. And ask God for his help saving your M.

Put God and your husband first. If he were reading I would suggest that he put God and his wife first. That means you may have to tell your friends 'sorry I have higher priorities than you today'. When you've made sufficient progress, you may want to start POJAing with your husband.

Just adding that I hear you about reaching out. I think that's God at work. It wasn't until this horrible year that I realized how real he is and how much he is there when we need him most.

WNH--when you talk about POJA'ng with her H and where his heart is...are you conscious that he's distracted from the marriage? I believe all that you are advising is awesome...the communication, recognition, prioritizing, healing, forgiving and rebuilding is awesome. I believe that what Bitter should be doing is a stellar Plan A until Anxious4answers commits to stopping contact.

Bitter? I know you've read the dickens out of this website, but I don't see it reflected in your thoughts right now. I believe you're scrambling, but that may be me remembering myself last year. I might be crazy, but I want you to make right now just about you.

I want you to take your focus entirely off your husband. I want you to practice a new way of living today...owning what is yours and not the rest.

You do sound defensive in your first couple of posts, not wanting to be painted by the hand of your H. By doing that, you disown your H's reality. This is abuse and really should stop. Own that he feels and thinks the way he thinks and feels. That isn't a reflection of you--it's his reality. Own that you didn't live up to your expectation of yourself and own the consequences of not doing that. Owning does mean blaming.

Next, work on recognizing projection. This is a sneaky thing. Sounds like you didn't feel heard, taken seriously, cherished, protected or fought for in your marriage. I challenge you to examine if that was how you felt your whole life. These are the same issues your H seems to have. A very tit for tat relationship. There's a better way. When you don't feel heard, ask if you're hearing yourself--telling yourself your truth. Ask if you're really listening to yourself, defining your standards, boundaries and choosing your actions.

Ask yourself how much power you have over others?

Ask if what you really want is a perfectly consistent relationship, one that always makes you feel loved and secure?

Then go deeper and ask, who has the power to give you that? Only you can feel loved consistently. Only you have that power within yourself.

You are a whole, perfect creation of God--you're not defective. You've got inner work to do to get to where you understand, embrace and rejoice that you are you, through and through. You'll get there. God gave you this challenge, this wake up, to bring you closer to him, ourselves and others.

Please do not base your personal recovery on what your H thinks or feels. Respect him--listen like WNH described, and tell him what you think and feel (as you have been doing), but do this for no other reason but to be true to your word. Expect no results. Let it all go. Do your part for your own self-respect. Listen and communicate with your girls the same way. Stay highly conscious that you're in flux...and each little step is practice and an opportunity for growth.

I'm here for both of you, too. You two are not alone...my H and me have had this same go round with little variation. There's a terrible beauty to affairs.

LA

b2s LA is saying good stuff. If you do that you can't fail to be a better person. Only your H can determine where his heart lies, but you can be true to your true self.

There is a little book 'The Battle Belongs to God'. The idea is that we are called to do his bidding. Not to try to direct the battle, just to be true to what we are called to do. I know that applies to myself; maybe useful to you and your H.

Hmmm, LA, you've given me a lot of food for thought. And just to let you know, based on what H told me, he has stopped all contact with OW.