The WW called me today (the day after I exposed the A to the OMW) and asked me when she could come and pick up her things and we could sit down and discuss splitting up the bills.
I asked her if she had considered anything I have told her in regards to actually sitting down and discussing working on the M before we just throw everything away. She said she is done trying, does not want to try again and that if she did, she would feel resentful because I talked her into it and would not be in the mindset to really work on things. She said she's happier now since we separated 3 weeks ago, hasn't missed me or felt the least bit excited when she does see me, has less stress, and is being a better mom to the kids.

I told her that I understood how that would be the case since she's not living in the conflicted situation anymore. Also that I didn't want to repeat the same mistakes and live in a unhappy situation either. I asked her if we both had ever really sat down, communicated well with each other as to what our problems were and dedicated the effort to fix things. She responded that we both have tried in the past at different times. I asked her how hard she could be trying while involved in an A for the last 2 years. She said the unhappiness started long before that, she has no future with the OM and he is not the reason for leaving (I think she's being truthful here). She said she was just tired of feeling bad. I told her I understood and that I want her to be happy with or without me, however we have both contributed to the current situation and that we could at least make an attempt to see if there was a possibility of regaining a happy M. I then got "You're not listening to what I'm saying...I'm done".

I asked her if we could actually sit down and discuss this privatly, in person rather than on the phone with the kids coming in and interrupting every few minutes. She begrudgingly accepted to do so later in the week.

Any suggestions on the approach I should take when I have this conversation? I already expressed my willingness to reconcile, the benefits of creating a happier M, the disadvantages for the children and us if we D.
I haven't been able to give ultimatums. If she doesn't comply, I'll D her? That's what she wants!
I have not tried Bigger's suggestions of threatening her with sole custody, etc. for a few reasons...1. She is actually being very amicable right now as far as letting me keep the house, not wanting alimony, taking her share of the bills, etc. 2. Knowing her personality (very stubborn, will cut off nose to spite face) I think this would backfire and have her declare war. 3. I'm in AZ which has no fault D's and does not consider A's or abandonment in their decisions. She has been to a lawyer and probably knows this.
So reasoning isn't working. Even if she does agree to work on things I don't think her heart will be into it and she will just be going through the motions with resent.

Is it time for NC or plan B? If so do I avoid doing any goodwill gestures? (IE: Today I picked up the kids from daycare so I could see the for a few minutes and then drove them to her side of town so she didn't have to fight the traffic)

Am I beating a dead horse here? Is it time to just accept the situation and move on?

Is she still having the affair? If so, you are NOT going to change her mind with "logic". You can only express your love and willingness to address the issues of the marriage. She has been justifying things for a long time, this won't swing around quickly.

If she does leave and you have done a decent plan A, then go to plan b and delay the divorce as long as you can IF you want to hang on.

More information on your situation would really help with the advice we offer here, but I would strongly urge you to read the articles here and understand Harley's approach to saving marriages.

It is not over even if she leaves, but it makes it harder for you to show her the changes you have and will make.

Welcome and post more information so that we can offer better advice.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks for the comments and sorry for the lack of info. I have been posting at survivinginfidelity.com and jumping over here with links from their posts, so I figured I would post here also. Here's the basics...

Married 11 years, 2 children 7 and 9. Spouse has been having the A for around 2 years with her very good friend's husband. D-Day was Dec 12th. I reacted with intense questioning and ultimatums, realized my mistake, started plan A, She has been avoiding contact and conversation with me. She says we'll talk about things and she's thinking, a couple days go by and nothing so I ask if we are going to talk and she says I'm pressuring her. Just informed OMW yesterday...I think this will either end the A but it might just send it deep undercover.

DaVinci2

As Steve Harley would say, expose to everyone short of putting it on a billboard.

Everything she says is just babble at the moment - exposure is a powerful weapon to bust up the affair - you must bust up the affair to get her to even consider working on the marriage.

After the affair is busted up, she will go through withdrawal for at least 4 weeks but due to the length of the affair, probably much longer.

I highly recommend you call Marriage Builders and set up phone councelling with the Harleys. Do what they tell you.

Good Luck.

I think me and the OMW are the only one's that didn't know. Her whole family knows and has been trying to talk some sense into her for a long time...her sister is the one that informed me. Her friends know also. I don't think she is in love with the OM or see a future with him (he married with 3 kids). I think it was more of a pleasurable escape from an unhappiness she was feeling at home. With all the accusations and resent I was giving her because I suspected the A for a long time it just made matters worse.

Go for phone councelling with the Harleys like I suggested. If you want to recover you need expert help and they will provide it in a pro-marriage setting.

Da Vinci,

Please take a look at the link in my signature. It is about Plan A. I think you need to continue Plan A. Work hard on yourself. Work hard on self improvment. Take good care of yourself. Get treated for depression, if necessary. Try to meet the ENs you can. Avoid LBs. Don't be clingy or needy. Try to have a life (I know, this is hard).

Try to point the OMW to this site. She could use some help, too.

DaVinci

Honestly – so far you haven’t been following any set plan. Not Plan A, Plan B or any other method. You have been following your emotions and heart and the advice of other BS that have also been following their emotions and hearts.

The major difference from MB and other sites is that here people have an agenda. There is a plan. This plan is based on tremendous experience and has proven results. Before you go any further read up on Plan A. Learn the MB basics and implement them in your approach to your wife.

Please keep posting here.

Just want to bump DaVinci up here. Sometimes new people come here and post after a lot of thought. It takes courage and there must be someone here who can help him.

Davinci, I wouldn't bother with the "talk" at all. It will get you nowhere. You can't reason with someone who uses no reason. Please understand that your main problem here is the affair and until that is busted up, you don't have much hope at all of saving your marriage.

The most effective way to bust up this affair is Plan A. The first part of Plan A is exposure. Exposure is ruinous to affairs. Affairs are based on fantasies and exposure forces them in them into the daylight, forcing the affairees to see themselves through the eyes of others. Once they see how silly and sleazy they look, it begins to take the shine off the affair. Exposure causes affairs to start to crumble.

So, don't stop with the OMW. Make a list of close family members, close friends and if a workplace affair, the human resource department.

The second part of Plan A is to avoid lovebusters and do your best to meet her needs. Be as pleasant as possible and concentrate on attracting her back. If you expose the affair, it will start to crumble, so she will need a soft place to land.

I would also suggest that you do nothing to accommodate her affair. Dont' allow her to use family money to finance her love nest and don't allow her to drag the kids from their nice, safe homes. Yes, she might be stubborn [all men seem to say that about their WW's here] but you have an obligation to protect your children from her insanity.

A good post about Plan A: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=0#2858269

I would call the close family members, starting with her parents, and make sure they have the correct story. If they heard it from your W or from rumors, they don't have the full story. And if they heard it from your W, it was likely spun.

Tell the truth, tell them you are trying to save your marriage and ask for their support.

Do you have any of the Harley reading materials? Surviving an Affair would be very helpful and would help you see the numerous opportunities you have here to save your marriage.

What was the OMW's reaction? Will she agree to work with you to bust up the affair? Does she want to save her marriage? Does your W know you have exposed her to the OMW?

DaVinci

You are getting great advice from these vets. They are awesome. You do need to follow a plan and I don't see one unless I missed something. I aggree with BigK, you need to call the Harleys. It will give you a firm foundation. It has worked wonders for me so far.

Ignore her Babble but keep you ears open for any information she might offer that could also be of help. I found the hardest thing in the beginning is the separation of babble talk with real info.

Keep posting here and learning. Don't give up yet, but you need some solid footing. Call the Harleys and pay attention to the real vets hear.

Well I did pretty well today...only called her once to speak to the kids. She called me once in the morning to let me talk to the kids and then once when I got off of work just to ask me what I was doing?? I told her I was on my way to the Gym to play racquetball with a couple of friends. (I did and it felt good) I'm really not sure why she called unless she wanted me to bring the kids over to her again instead of her picking them up.

When I called for the kids I was short but courteous. As I was getting off the phone she let me know she was going to pick up some furniture from the house tomorrow. We discussed what she could have (minimal stuff) and I said fine. I was able to keep things very to the point. No asking any questions about reconciliation or the talk we are suppose to have. None of it! I never liked talking to a wall much anyways.

Is this how plan A is suppose to work? Thanks for all the help!

Are the children with you or with WW?

One week with me the next week with her...

Here's todays update...I think she's already blinking a little.

Today while I was at work she came and removed the furniture we had agreed to. She left behind a little letter written in legalese stating what she was removing from our "jointly owned home", and that she will "recover all other personal or jointly owned property upon dissolution of marriage or before". She also stated that "She retains responsibility for personal debt aquired during the M and will no longer share in deposits or withdrawals from our joint checking".

Sounds like the letter benefits me more than her but ok...she's obviously being coached by a lawyer or maybe her mom who's been down this road before. (Same circumstances ironically-she was a WW also). I'm not even going to mention the letter she left because I think she will be expecting a reaction. What would I gain from bringing it up anyway?

When she called at the end of the day I politely asked her how she made out with moving and then asked her when we could get together to divide the finances. I also asked her when are we going to make arrangements to file for divorce or legal separation. She said that I had told her that separation was not an option (Sounds like she's fishing?). (I probably did the day after D-day) I told her ... I am still willing to work on this marriage but by your conversation the other day you said it was over. I just need to know what direction we are taking so we can get going on a legal agreement.

She said that there were so many things going on in her mind right now and that she didn't know. (Confusion?, Maybe reality is starting to set in?) I told her that I'm sure she does but that we should still get together and figure out the finances. She then said that she didn't know how she was going to pay rent and childcare this payday. I gently changed the subject to figuring out which day of the week we would be having the children switch households on.

We then disussed New Year's Eve...Originally I assumed I would have the children, but the other day she said that she wanted them so I agreed. Today she told me that since it was my week with them that I could have them if I wanted to. I told her that I had already made plans for the night, but that I could change them if needed. She said I didn't have too since she wasn't going out anyways.

We ended the conversation by agreeing that we would get together on Saturday afternoon to tell the kids about the separation for now. I'm sure they see the writing on the wall but when they come back here, the missing funiture will be a dead giveaway.

I also spoke with a lawyer today so I am now very clear on my rights.

All in all a pretty good day! (Except those images of her and the OM together that haunt me from time to time and turn my stomach) This is a long road...we haven't even got to the point of discussing the A yet if we ever do.

DaVinci

That would be a mistake to tell your children that you agree to the dissolution, for all intent and purposes, of your M. Read P47D’s thread to see that you cannot cover up for your WW. Your children are old enough to know that your WW has an inappropriate relationship with OM and that is why she is leaving. They deserve the truth. Don’t become a liar to appease and cover up for your WW. Children can sense the truth. It is better for them to get it from you than from their own imagination or other people.

You are not agreeing to this separation. You are not agreeing to your WW destroying your MM. So don’t pretend otherwise to your children. Be a Man and tell your WW that you will not go through with this nonsense with her on Saturday.

Best

UVA,

I can see your point about letting the kids know it's her decision not mine. However, with the children being so young, 7 and 9, I can't see telling them their mom's having an A, or even "an inappropriate relationship". What would that mean to the kids? At the same time If we tell them it's her idea they might think I did something wrong and that's why she's leaving. I was just going to take the middle ground and tell them that we are having problems getting along right now and that we are going to be apart for awhile to see if we can work things out. And of course assuring them that we both love them and it's not their fault.

Opinions?

I would just tell the kids that the two of you are having some problems right now.

You are very, very soon after exposure. I think I would give it some more time.

I think the children should be told the truth unless they are too young. I don't think your children are too young. But since I think you should do what you feel is right in this case, I will support you either way!