I'm getting tired of this. Call from Sara(intermediary) for my Plan B. Initially, I excited as it was very good news - WH got a NEW JOB!!! WHoo HOO!!!! He starts Jan 9th. A little more money even(not much though). But the best thing is - he will be further away from OW. Contact was less frequent anyway as I believe she has decided he's not such a good fit for her.

Sara told WH that she was proud of him for getting out there & finding a decent job. I told Sara that was Awesome & I was proud of him too.

THEN she said, so WH wants to know about REFI!!! Said that he is now wanting to do a rush on this since he is starting a new job & the refi company wouldn't push it through with a job change. That was such a huge downer to me. I told Sara that I couldn't. I brought up the NC letter again. I said, so WH doesn't seem to be able to do the letter. DOES HE HAVE A PLAN to reconcile then?

She said that he "didn't want to hurt anybody". That he didn't want to write the letter if he couldn't commit.

That was all I needed to hear.

Then she went on to tell me that she asked WH when the last time was he had spoken or seen OW. WH said it had been weeks, but he "ambushed" OW on Christmas Day. I guess he somehow tracked her down on her route. I didn't ask Sara any questions. I didn't really want details. Sara said that OW was quite ugly to WH and she kept telling him he was making her late, holding her up. Sara asked WH didn't that tell him something there???

I was at work, so I couldn't talk to Sara any longer. After that bit of info I was so hurt & I just needed to get off the phone. I told her to tell WH that until he ended this A that I could not help WH, see him or talk to him.

Oh & somewhere in the conversation Sara said that WH mentioned that we shouldn't "hold each other financially hostage". THAT'S WHAT GOT ME FUMING. I just keep repeating that in my head. He thinks that I am holding him hostage with finances?????? Because I won't refinance with him I am keeping him from his freedom?

Believe me, he is free to do what the heck he wants to with his $$. I am just not comfortable in my heart to sign a contract with a MAN that is not trustworthy.

Does he want freedom from me?? I guess he can't afford to Divorce me. ARGH. I am not so mad right now & I am trying to put this all in perspective so I can talk to Sara tomorrow.

I don't know what I am going to tell her. Maybe I should spew some reverse babble? Instead of repeating that I love WH and I stand firm on my beliefs in our M from day one, how about:

"Yep, Affairs sure do cause a mess in a M. Tell my husband if you ever see him that I'd be more than happy to work as a team with him and try to straighten out our financial mess."

or

"I am trying to make some major life decisons here. Perhaps selling the house might be a better option for now."

O.k., any help here. I really need to get him off my back with this. This has been going on since October. I am tired of it.

Kim

((Kim))

Is there any finacial advantage to you with the refi? Either married or divorced? I can't imagine why everyone cannot see that you are not going to sign anything that puts you at any financial risk with your WH.

If I remember, he wants to dump his credit card debt onto your house?!? That is a bad idea for married people when they both are sane, much less when one of them is looney tunes.

Sure, It could relieve some financial stress for me too. I know that many financial advisors do not suggest doing this with cc debt - cc debt is unsecured. Rolling this into a refi or 2nd mortgage puts your house at risk.

I have played around with the idea & did some research. I can qualify on my own for the refi or even for a second mortgage for the amount of $$ that we would need. A paralegal that I spoke with a couple of months ago advised against it while WH was involved in the A.

I told Sara that there were costs involved with a refi. Wh came back saying that he found a no-cost refi. I just don't see the point of it with him still chasing after OW.

It's so pitiful now. I really don't need to know this extra info.

The bottom line is this: WH it hurts me terribly to have ANY interaction with you right now since you are still involved in this A. I am still protecting my heart from you so that I can continue loving the man I married.

Maybe I should just tell Sara that??

Kim

Kim, I am so sorry this is still going on. I fear that he is just now STARTING withdrawal with the OW's latest rejection, if that is even true. He is likely telling Sara many half truths and is still pursuing the affair.

I wouldn't reject the refi on the basis that it hurts you to see him, but that it is fiscally a bad idea to enter such a loan with an uncommitted man who is actively pursuing another woman. That is what you should tell Sara. Tell her you are not interested in a refi and no one is holding WH hostage.

You are doing great holding your ground and thinking on your feet!

Maybe I can compare this "transaction" to another that I would not do with WH. Kind of like the Green Eggs & Ham story. "I will not, cannot speak with you - not about the refi, not about your job, not about car repairs, not about the price of gas. I do not like you WH, not in the park, not in your car, not in the dark, not near or far."

Simple & true. Thankfully, Sara is not trying to sway me either way. Just acting as messenger for me. I am going to give her that info & tell her I don't want to hear anything else on the subject.

I am SO glad though that WH has a new job. He will be on a regular schedule & even have his weekends FREE.

Kim

I think WH might believe that I am out to hurt him financially. I am not doing this to be mean. I think though, that this is what's in his mind. The last thing I want to do is hurt him.

Kim

ROFL!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Kim - Don't refinance with him. That would be crazy. And the comment about him not wanting to hurt people is just plain crazy. He is hurting YOU.

I would relay to him that you are not planning to have ANY dealings with him while he is not working on the marriage. Too bad he won't work on the marriage as much as he wants to work on refinancing.

I shudder to think what your life would be like now if he was still there. Can you imagine the last 2 months of playing this cat and mouse game with him? MY GOD, what a torture that would have been.

Kim:

Ok, I know we have been over this a hundred and one times. You know my opinion as well as countless others on the "risk" of doing a Refi given your financial and marital situation.

What I honestly worry about is your perhaps "willingness" to do a Refi IF you get a NC letter. I know you didn't say this, but I don't think it would be prudent to even have this in your mind in any way, shape, or form.

You should base a REFI solely on YOUR long term fiscal benefit of this...NOT on anything your WH says or even does now (as it would take LONG term committment actions on his part right?) or whether you will "help" him or "hurt" him. That strategy is riddled with error. But I know you know this. Maybe just needed another reminder. Dunno.

There is a reason that his continued contacts always come with a "catch"....Wh wants to go on a date..."Yeah"...but wait...what about the REFI? ....WH gets a new job..."Yeah"...BUT what about a REFI? You no doubt see a pattern here. I am even insulted that he still tries to do this with you. I can probably imagine how you feel about it. You don't have to say it. We know. We understand how this must make you feel. He doesn't "get it" yet, he is not dealing with the "old" Kim...the one who enabled his affair. He still thinks he can throw the bait on the hook and reel you in...so far just sea weed and waste.....but he'll keep trying...I think.

Frankly, I know that you are too smart for this charade and you know that "rushing" a REFI now because of his job change is just another ploy by him. Frankly, you'll probably have to submit this one to the "Fogese" thread recently bumped by Believer. It certainly qualifies.

I know you know this, you don't need me to state the obvious...BUT...Please, Please do NOT tie any offer of a NC letter to a REFI. That would not be sound financial advice. Marriage, Divorce, Reconciliation, No Contact. false Recovery...whatever may happen should be SEPARATE from a REFI.

Ok, off my soapbox.

Lem

I personally don't think there is any such thing as a no-cost refinance. You can be sure the bank or mortagage company has to make their money somewhere.

It is probably one of several things:

1. - The closing costs are built into the loan. No money comes out of pocket but the loan amount will be greater.

or

2. - There must be a higher interest rate.

It is not to your advantage to refinance (to save money) unless you plan to be in the house for a period of time. I forget if it is 2 years or maybe even 5 years.

I would tell Sara to relay that I was totally for the idea of refinancing, but right now the future is too shaky to consider it and once the future of the marriage is clear, you will be happy to discuss the options with him.

Susan

There is your answer to *where he is* right there.

Susan

Believer - He thinks I am holding out on the refi until I get a NC letter. Well, a NC letter doesn't get an automatic Refi. IF I were to consider it there would still be a lot of work to do on our R with trust, etc. before I would go there.

You know what. It's WH that doesn't want to go through the pain of realizing his A is over by OW"S choice. I just pray that OW continues rejecting him. He's not worried about hurting me.

Melodylane - OMG!!! Honestly, I would be insane by now if WH were still in this house. Looks like Plan B has no end in the near future. I really am going to look into the BellyDancing thing or the BallRoom Dancing. Gotta keep myself busy!!!!

I am so glad that I went into Plan B. Whew!

Kim

Lem - see my post above to Believer. I was already thinking about that - see, I am learning! I also have not forgotten everyone's advice about rolling debt into a ref. I would feel so great getting rid of it w/out a refi. And we have DS's college education to save for too! Believe me, your advice about that has stuck strongly in my head. It's my darn WH that can't seem to let it go.

I am obviously not communicating strongly enough through Sara. My ignoring his notes and voicemails didn't send a strong enough message either.

And it is sad the way he tries to trick me --- or should we say "manipulate" me with enticements.

Susan - I remember in my earlier research that one or two of the loans were "no-cost" but the interest rate was higher. There was also the Interest Only loan - that scares me.



Bulls Eye!

Kim

Kim,

You're cracking me up here.

Mel has it spot on I think.

You don't want to enable his affair by giving him access to money. Protect yourself and kids here. Get a boarder if you need more finance.

Bless you Kim. Stay tough. Stay dark.

(I also agree 100% with Lemonman)