my WS & I have a long history of sweeping our problems under the rug & not solving them. This is a big part of the reason why we are in this position now. She wants to act like it never happened & pretend everything is alright. how do I make it clear for things to work out we have to communicate better, seek help What ever it takes.

" she has no feelings for me but wants to try to see if the come back " but wont do anymore or cant handle anymore than following the rule of protection even though she doesn't know that's what we are doing. I think that's a great start but I feel if I let her go on as always we wont move past this point & the marriage will be doomed. She has no one to answer to about the A because her family doesn't know & would not approve & I have been so understanding so there are no real consequences for her.

I realise that a lot of what she says is fog/babble & she is still trying to come to terms with what happened she had allowed herself to believe that I didn't care for her anymore which justified her reasoning for having the affair. When all this came to a head she was thrown for A loop because the OM she thought she was going to have a life with abandoned her & decided to try to work things out with his wife so she felt used. then she found out how much I really cared which made things harder on her. so whats my next step, wait to see what direction she plans on going?
how long to I let things go with me trying to fulfill her EN & getting very little in return. how long do I give her to decide to work on repairing the relationship?

Cliff

Cliff,

Where are you? In the US? Maybe try phone councelling with the Harleys.

Get her to read the Surviving Infidelity FAQ's (Print them off for her)

Get Surviving an Affair - get her to read it.

Print off Harley's basic concepts - see if she will commit to following them.....

Get His Needs, Her needs and work through it together - answering the questions at the end of every chapter.

Purchase the Audio CD Course (I did)

Sounds a bit similar to my situation. I'd say give it more time. D-Day for me was back in May, and it took at least three months for me to believe that my FWW was actively working on recovery and even now I'm not quite sure that she's doing enough.

Bigkahuna great to hear from you again ( ive posted as tazcliff befor) She hasn't been willing to do much there has been very slow progress, I did get her to read the EN questionnaire but she thinks he she fills it out she will be sending me a mixed message because shes not prepared to let me try to fulfill some of them, I do have the surviving an A book I will try to get her to look at it. she doesnt want to really do more than be nice to each other & avoid confronting our problems. I will wright more later tonight I have to get to work looking forward to you advice.

maninmotion I hope she starts to come around a little more soon my patients are wearing a little thin.



Cliff

Cliff,
Boy, does your situation sound similar to mine! Let me see if I can offer you some insight from the "other side" -- the perspective of the FWW.


Does the woman have morals? A conscience? I assume she's not a sociopath. If she has a conscience, it will eventually catch-up with her. She will have to answer to HERSELF, and most of us are our own harshest judges. The realization of what I've done hits me in waves. And my feelings of remourse seem to be growing in inverse proportion to my lingering feelings for OM. In other words, as her feelings for OM diminish, she will begin to see how hurtful and destructive -- how wrong -- her actions were. But this takes time.

My husband was also very understanding right from the beginning. Yes, that may have allowed me to DELAY my own guilty feelings. But it also made it impossible for me to resent him for being "judgemental" (even though he would have had every right to be judgmental). In the long run, your reaction to her A will do nothing to win you points.
Again, patience.


I, too, thought my H didn't care for me. And by the time I got to the point that I was open to an affair, the only feelings I had left for him were negative ones. I felt as though I had been in an emotional (and in our case, sexual) black hole for years, literally years. Then, whamo! Along came OM and it was like being struck by lightning. Like coming out of a long coma and feeling tingly all over. I don't know if it's even possible to describe just how POWERFUL that is. I imagine it's a lot like someone who gets addicted to heroine the very first time they try it. I'm sorry if it hurts to read this. But the point I'm trying to make is -- it takes awhile to come down from that. Even though I agreed to work on my marriage right away, my heart wasn't really in it at first. I had extra incentive to try, because we have two young children. But it's still hard. I still struggle. And much to my dismay, I still think about OM. I spent so many years building up a wall between me and my husband -- thinking I was protecting myself from him -- that it's taking awhile to tear that wall down. I bet your W is going through the same thing.



Sounds like what you really want is for someone to lay out a timeline for you. I'm not sure that's possible. But I do think you need to start thinking in terms of MONTHS rather than days or weeks. And it's only been a couple of months so far.

As for her not working on the relationship, what exactly is she saying -- that she's going to stay with you but that she just wants to 'forget the whole thing' and 'get back to normal'? Obviously, that's not rational. If she's actually saying that, it must be because she's still suffering from withdrawl. She's probably still feeling the sting of rejectiom from OM and just doesn't feel strong enough to start working on your R yet. I'm not sure about the best way to jumpstart the process. Hopefully, some of the veterans around here will come along with some ideas. But one word of caution, start small. Don't throw too much at her at once -- books, counseling, articles etc. Maybe print out ONE article from this web site and ask her to read it. OR try to get her to fill out the EN questionaire. One small step at a time.

--SC

Don't let her slither out of it that easily. Let me guess... ya think maybe she's referring to SEX??? (sorry for the sarcasm).

Last I checked, the EN questionaire isn't written in stone. (oops, more sarcasm, just can't seem to help myself all of a sudden <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />). So tell her she can fill it out based on her needs TODAY, RIGHT NOW, AT THIS MOMENT. And that she can change her mind, print out a new questionaire and burn the old one at any time she chooses in the future.

So, for example, if her need for "SF" right now is ZERO, tell her, fine, you can live with that for now. But you need to know what she DOES need from you so you can start giving it to her.

--SC

SC thank you are situations are very similar, I'm not looking for a time frame I know things will take a while, I'm basically looking for her to admit there is a problem that need to be worked on & head that direction. she is basically say that she is going to stay with you but that she just wants to 'forget the whole thing' and 'get back to normal I know its not realistic but that's how she has reacted any time I brought up an issue in our relationship. She thinks we don't have anything to discuss because I'm not doing anything that bothers her right now. So yes she wants to pretend everything is normal ( except for the lack of a relationship) Just be nice to each other, see if her feelings come back while putting in no effort at all, they come back all by themselves don't they? we are communicating a little better when it comes to daily things.

As far as the EN she has a problem if I try & hold her hand or hug her etc. we have had sex on a couple of occasion's, sorry she has allowed me to have sex which has not been very fulfilling, its almost more trouble than it worth, she has no emotion at all not even a primal one for SF. I do make sure she gets taken care of but I'm pretty much on my own. You have given some great advice hopefully she will take a look at something so we have a starting point. your angle on the EN questionnaire possibly could work to open the door, I'm not sure though. I almost get the feeling that even though there is NC I might have to do some sort version of plan b to bring her into reality but that's a long way off & I hope she wises up before than.


Cliff

thanks once again, how is your situation going ? were you able to come to a compromise with H about being more charitable/ helpful to others?

Still looking for a direction to go here, how do I handle the situation when she wants to go on like nothing is wrong even though our relationship is nonexistent

Cliff

my husband and I were pretty much the same. I became emotionless. I would even sometimes cringe when he would touch me. Recently I found out that before we were married and a couple of months into our marriage that he was having an affair. It was rough going for a couple of days. After a lot of yelling. I finally just started telling him everything and I mean everything that he had ever done that bothered me. Now I feel closer to him emotionally than ever before. I'm not saying to have an affair. By all accounts that is something that should NEVER be done. Both of you need to confront the problems. For women the physical aspect of the relationship follows the emotional one. She is not getting something she needs emotionally. Talk. I mean TALK with her. LISTEN and HEAR what she has to say.

maliby24
I do talk & listen she wont really say anything unless I drag it out of her, for instance last weekend I took my boys to the driving range to hit some golf balls, when we got home she was up already ( works nights, sleeps days) I noticed something was bothering her, I asked a couple of time & got the nothing answer even though I could clearly see she was upset, I didnt push & let it drop I didn't want it turn into LB, the boys went over a friends house & we went out shopping than to dinner, just the 2 of us it was really nice. anyway back to my point I was feeling a little down at this point ( wishing things were better) she picked up on it & asked what was wrong I told her I would only tell her if she told me why she was upset earlier.

It boiled down to this she was upset that she could not spend time with the boys doing the things that I do with them, paintball, golfing etc. I understand why she wouldn't want to do some of these things & told her we would find some thing that she could do & enjoy with them.

Why did I have to drag this out of her?

She has a problem with talking about issues I would love to LISTEN & HEAR but I cat force her to talk she has to decide to do that on her own.

Cliff

I could really use some help fron the big guns on this. please


Cliff

Sounds very simular to our story. FWW does not konw if those feelings for me will come back. I tell her that she has to decide that she wants them to come back, that she will have to find time for me, and that she will have to put some effort into our relationship for the feeling to come back.

Our relationship has changed; completely turned about 180 degrees. I use to be, what she has become & she use to be the way I've become. She says that she does not have the needs that she once had because I neglected her so long; they just went away. I do not beleive this to be true, after all she went outside our marriage to have these needs met. She still does not beleive that the A was wrong. I know that she thinks it was a wonderful experience.

If it follows the pattern that my recovery is following, she will start to "come around" in a month or two. Just keep walking the walk and talking the talk, and doing what you can do to make conversation a comfortable experience for both of you.

Give it time.

today was a very bad day, I was helping my sister & brother in law out with there boat & got home late afternoon, shortly after I got home a friend called & asked if my boys wanted to go to a bowling party. They both said they wanted to go so I went to let her know where they were going & she seemed upset, I ask if she wanted the to stay & she said no.

After dropping them off I came back home & I asked what was bothering her & she snapped at me & asked why I needed to know everything. I told her I was only asking & I didn't deserve that type of reaction which made her mad. It started an argument where I brought up that she needed to participate in our recovery if it was going to work out, she told me to stop telling her what to do & fell back into her ranting about not having any feelings & she couldn't try until she started to get them back & that she didn't have to do anything to try & get me back. I lost my cool here & threatened to expose the A to he parents, than she accused me of just trying to hurt her & said she was only here for the boys & I told her what was the point than. She than said i have been pressuring her too much about the EN questionnaire etc other than today in the heat of the moment i had only asked about the EN questionnaire 1 other time 3 weeks ago. She also brought up my wedding ring because I was wearing it, In the past it was one of the insensitive things I had done. ( because of my job I don't usually wear it & when away from my job I used to forget to out it on) so at Christmas I put it on & have been wearing it ever since except at work. Should I continue to wear it?

I was than told all the changes I'm making are over the top & are making her more angry. She doesn't understand why I can do them know & could not do them before & its pissing her off, she than brings up everything I had ever done in the past to wrong her while forgetting everything she has done to me. She also said she thinks that I'm putting on a front that i really don't mean anything that I'm doing or saying, that I don't really want to make the changes that I'm making.

I really think all this anger is so she can justify the A without feeling bad, if she doesn't deal with it we can never move into recovery, sorry for ranting I need some serious help, I'm not sure how much more of this I can deal with, I feel like giving her an ultimatum even though it goes against what I am working towards. I need to make another appointment with my IC. HELP.

One more thing she made plans for us to go visit her parents without asking me, I don't really feel like going & pretending everything is alright, should I still go?

Cliff

Hi Cliff,

Just catching up here as kiddos are still asleep! I am a fww.

Here are a couple things that stand out to me.
1) your w has only been NC for 2 months. It is still early for "her". Not fair to you I know...

2) the A is over and she was dumped by OM. You said earlier that this made her feel "used" by him as he is now said to be working on his M. Ok...your w probably feels rejected and humiliated. Again...not fair to you but she is probably in pain.

3)If the A is truly over and you didn't need to expose and they are true NC...what is the point in threatening exposure to her family? No disrespect here but IMO..you would only be doing that to manipulate her back into trying to "feel" for you again. That wouldn't fly w/me. That would only backfire. Exposure is to end the A...not to punish or humiliate her after it is over.

She is bringing up old hurts from the M because yes for her...this alleviates some of the guilt and projects the blame for the A on you. I did this...until I HAD to accept responsibility for MY actions. I also understand how screwed up in the head she is right now. Does it make it right? NO!!

I don't know what it feels like to be in your shoes... but if you want a tip? Try this angle...be her friend. Don't allow her a free ride all over your emotions but try and be patient, friendly...give her your ear. Let her "see" your changes not hear you talk about all the changes you have made and that she isn't etc... I am only 8 months out of dday. It is just not a piece of cake and I am very remorseful and working on everything. Of course I had the reversal of you...my h clammed up and I wanted to do the talking. Different dynamics...but the same old ugly infidelity story.


Listen, I don't post very often. I hope I have helped some.

Take care
Brandi fww

She's still in withdrawal. I know that it's tough, but you need to back off on the R talk a bit.



The trick is to learn how to exit the situation before that point occurs, particularly if you're going to do the following...



Why on earth would you tell her this? Did you think that would actually improve things? She's probably struggling with the shame and embarrassment that comes out of the withdrawal process, and you threatened to increase it even further! You used your conversation with her to punish her, and you shouldn't do this. Yes, she lashed out at you first and yes you retaliated - the trick is to learn to NOT retaliate when those situations.



Try asking her how much does it mean to her for you to join her in that visit, and what she plans to do during the visit. Ask her how she'd like you to react if any R or M talk comes up in the visit. Tell her that it might be difficult at this point for you to pretend that everything is OK. Looks like a good conversation topic for the two of you. Just avoid the retaliations, and don't try to force your point of view on her.

Thanks for the replies. I had been doing pretty good & staying calm with her until this point, I keep most of my ranting & LB feelings on this site I don't really know why I let her push my buttons like that last night I was not planing on discussing our R last night I was just trying to understand what she was feeling. In the last few weeks
she sees my relationship with our boys as some sort of threat & blaming me for the way she in feeling about it. At some point my feeling have to matter granted I did not handle this situation very well but I'm not going to stand by and let her tear me down either, that's not fair. I understand my part in what got us here, she needs to understand her part, I know that may come in time & I should have walked away instead of letting her push me to the point where I said things I should not have.


Thank you for reminding me to stay on track. Its almost like shes trying to piss me off to the point where I will file for a D so she can blame me & justify what happened.


Cliff

What about the current situation IS fair?

Hey - don't lose site of your overall goal here by trying to "win" these little battles when they come up. A suggestion - instead of trying to retaliate when she attacks you, how about instead expressing how you feel when she does that?



Yup, I expect that it would feel like that at times.

I have been doing that this was the only time I had let her drag me down to that level of trying to win the battle. Except for this one time I have not gone the retaliation route. When I have expressed how she was making me feel at other times She breaks out the I don't care line she is truly trying to be hateful at times.

Cliff

update, when she got home from work she acted like all was normal again, how does she do that?

Cliff