Longhorn.
I my atty. says he has been successful suing OMs before. Usually, they have so much on their plate they start backing away from WW after they get letter from the BS's atty. My particular OM seems like a busy boy. 3 kiddos, angry STBXW, hourly job, living in rented house with roomates, trying to hide his A with my WW. It might upset his basket, especially if the nice lady PI delivers it and says he's been under surveillance for X number of weeks.

My atty. is ready to file for temporary custody should WW decide to leave with the kids. They are my main concern. I'm working on establishing good relationships with those in town who could help me with the kids should WW leave without them. I will not kick myself years later and say that I should have fought harder for my kids. I will do everything I can to protect them. Right now WW has a lifestyle and set of values that I do not want my children to internalize as OK. They will if she gets primary custody in a D.
I still don't want a D. I believe God made my wife and I one when we were married. My faith is based on nothing if I don't stick to that. I believe it is my duty to God and my wife and my children to do everything in my power to pull her out of this mess she has GOTTEN HERSELF into. Then we both have to take responsibility for the things that made it possible for her to make such and awful choice. I'll give it one shot with everything I've got trying to use all MB principles. Nothing worth doing is easy. I need all the help I can get.
Thanks!
68

Good attitude. I commend you. The knock on the OM's door I think is a good idea if done at the same time that you have your D-Day conversation with your wife. Then maybe they will have one more conversation (on the phone) thereafter and OM will be intimidated and done. The threat of the Alienation of Affection lawsuit is powerful. Just so you know and can relate this to your wife if you get a judgment you can attempt to collect it indefinetly. The initial judgment will be good for 10 years and then you can probably extend it another 10 thereafter. Unless he goes bankrupt. However, in reality AofA lawsuits are rarely carried through to fruition and usually involve an empty victory. You'll have your wife back by the time the case is over and if not, likely want to move on with your life without the burden of going after OM anymore (and paying your attorney's in the meantime).

Are you in Georgia or the Carolina's?

As far as what you say on D-Day. You just confront the truth. Exaggerating what you know by giving some of what you do know so WW thinks you know everything. Don't try to get her to admit it first because you know she won't and your just getting your jolly's punishing her. Yes, she deserves it; but guilt and pride will combined will make reconciling difficult enough...no sense adding to it. You stay strong and keep control of any anger you may have. If she raises her voice, you lower yours. If she screams, you whisper. If she cries...you cry. Reverse babble her when she most likely tries to blame you. Read the link in ORCHID's posts on reverse babbling. Stay strong and try not to act desparate as you are starting Plan A at that moment and trying to attract wife back to you and the marriage. Don't blow it by begging and/or becoming needy or desparate sounding. You inform her you are going to be O.K....though you prefer to make it with her...you will make it nonetheless.

If separation is discussed or custody of the kids you say you stick to discussing marriage. Custody/divorce is for lawyers to discuss. If she discusses leaving, you tell her she is an adult and you can't stop her from making that hurtfull and distructive CHOICE. You may indicate you will not support her decision to leave in any way.

I'd like others to comment here but you may indicate as a demonstration of honesty that to protect the family and the kids finances all joint credit cards have been (or will be immediately) cancelled and the money in your accounts divided and/or protected. If she chooses to continue her bahavior is will not be to the detriment of the family finances.

Mr. Wondering

lost,

I did plan A under Steve guidance then plan B b/c my WW filed ... I did my best and looking back, I have no regret.

Mr is right on the money.

-rh-

Cool, Lost. If you're in a state that still recognizes alienation of affection suits, power to you. I know if I opened the front door one day and a copy of a filing for that was slapped into my hand, I'd start to sweat big time. What a powerful tool to smash an adulterous relationship!

Hi-
Anybody else have thoughts on what Mr. Wondering said regarding being honest about finances? ie. saying, "Honey, I have to cancel our joint account and the credit card in the interest of protecting our family finances because of your current situation." What do I do after this? Give WW an allowance to buy gas and food etc. Assuming she stays and still wants to take care of the kids during the day. Is this a huge, continuing LB during plan A or do I have no choice?
68
68

68,

First off, you and I are very similar. If you want to, go back to my threads beginning in June 2002. I have been in your shoes...I am just a few miles further down the road. My wife met her OM at the gym. He was divorced...ex-wife and kids in Florida, him here in Virginia. Living in a rented house with one or two other losers. They snuck around while I was deployed. Kept up the day-to-day stuff for everyone. But then would sneak off with some excuse to spend the night at his place. Several times, she had the OM over night. Once, one of my kids had seen the OM having dinner in my kitchen while they were sleeping upstairs. A HUGE No-No with judges!

In short, we went thru a lot over the last 4 years. But my wife is home and we are working on our marriage.

I hear all of your questions. I have asked them. What I want you to know is that you really need to read all of the stuff on here about this. Read "Surviving an Affair." Read what emotional needs are. Read what love busters are. Read the articles on this site. Go read other threads of people who have been thru what you have (mine, DazedandConfusedks, and others). Understand what thsi all entails.

68...you need to get smart here! You are charging forward without knowing what you are doing. You say you dont want to expose to her work. But what you dont understand is that you NEED to expose. You think exposing will hurt, that it will be an LB. But not exposing is actually hurting you and helps you to enable the affair. By exposing everywhere needed, you actually help...not hurt.

I said the same things when I was on here. My wife was going to see it as being vindictive. She would be angry. She would pull further away. Blah, blah, blah. All the sutff that I had no idea what I was talking about.

Right now, exposure is your BIGGEST weapon! You will hear about the Fog on here. That your wife is addicted to the OM...just like an addiction to cocaine or alcohol. That she cannot view things in their reality...that they are ALWAYS skewed in the way they think and perceive things. So, you need to be able to read fog talk...and understand the truth in the midst of the babble. By bringing here what she says and does, we can help you learn. And exposure will burn a bright light into the darkness of the fog.

And that brings up a great point that others mentioned above. YOU are not unique. Your situation is NOT unique. Your wife is NOT unique. Every last one of the BH's on here had their WWs do and say the EXACT same things! So, undertand that this is not different. And the remedy is not different. If you try to do it on your own or your own way, with no knowledge or experience...you will fail. I did. My wife's adultery was extended because I wanted to do it my way for the longest time. Once I knuckled down and learned this stuff...and then applied it...then everything improved over time.

Next thing...this will take time!! Your wife isnt going to come out of the fog a week after you expose. Nor a month. You had better be in this for the longhaul. Because if you arent, then it is better if you just divorce now. You will be holding up this marriage for the next year or more almost exclusively by yourself. Even after the OM leaves and your wife returns...there will be a long time before she is fully doing her part. It has been over a year of NC for my wife and her OM. And while things improve in certain areas, she is still not where she should be. But we are moving in that direction.

68, I like your attitude. About your marriage and relationship with God (please read my link at the bottom). About your kids and protecting them. I did the same. My wife wanted to leave and take the kids and me support her. I refused. So, her addiction led to her abandoning me and the kids and moving into her own apartment. BIG MISTAKE! Because when she filed for custody, the judge awarded ME custody!! I had the kids for over 8 months all by myself. While she ran around. Judges dont like that stuff either!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

You need a battle plan. Short and long term. You need to get smart first. You need to trust this stuff...it works!! You need to be very methodical...in the things you do and the way you relate to your wife. No explosions. No threats! Never, ever talk about divorce or separation with her unless you want to be divorced! Tell her you do marriage...your attorney does divorce. If she wants to work on the marriage, you are the man. if she wants to divorce or separate, then she should call your attorney.

You MUST be consistent! One attribute of the fog AFTER exposure is that the WS is always uncomfortable and scared. It is scarey when your world does nto make sense. It is scarey when you feel out of control. She will need to see the man in her life who is a rock. People on here call it "being the lighthouse thru the fog."

Take the weekend to read all of this stuff. Order the books. Ask questions here. Make sure you document everything you do, she does. Every conversation.

Your wife is not making adult decisions...she is acting like a 17 year old in heat! And wants out of her "daddy's home." Your wife couldnt be more immature right now.

You are the ONLY mature and stable adult in yoru kids life right now. That woman is NOT their mother right now. Their mother would not act this way. Their mother would kick this woman's butt! So, you protect those kids no matter what! Your marriage is second. Your kids' protection is first.

I can help you with the individual semantics. Intelligence gathering. Exposing. Planning. Legal (Mr. W has you on the right track there). Plan A. Fog. All of it.

But I can tell by your posts that you havent read enough, dont know enough. You are the ONLY one that can fight this battle for yoru family. We can only help. It is you that will need to know how to handle things as they happen. And if you dont know, then how will you make the right decisions. On Dazed's thread, he called it his mantra. His mantra is what he would do or say in response to certain things his wife said or did. he never reacted to his wife. he was almost always prepared!

Anyway, I will stop now. Please get started. Read and ask questions as needed. Start getting your plan together now! Before yo uhave a chance to screw things up!

In His arms.

68- listen to what this man has siad to you. Read it and then re read it. Like a milatary operation you must make a plan and execute it methodically. Everyone one of us BS here have experiences unlike yours. Mortarman gives you great advice.

In my opinion you're headed in teh right direction. Once you have definitive proof, Expose, deal with the wrath of a furious spouse because you exposed....

and keep coming here for support

All,
The answer to one question would be particularly beneficial to me immediately.
How do you deal with the anger that seems to follow the initial shock and depression? I get these urges out of the blue throughout the day to knock a big hole in something. This is my timeline:
Knew something bad was afoot since early Aug.
Discovered EA Sept.
Confirmed PA right after Christmas.
Have been proactively working toward resolution for about 2 weeks. I haven't been feeling anything really strongly until today when I suddenly want to rip stuff apart. I have to go home soon and see her.
68

Go in to your childrens bedroom tonight and just watch them sleeping. In that moment of solitude let the peace wash over you as you know you must "man up" and carry out this battle with integrity and without regrets, if not for yourself, for them. They can not afford to have two mixed up parents so you need to be in control of your emotions. Not only will it help you attrack your wife back but it will ensure calm and consistentcy in your household as your world and their world is rocking the most.

This is your life. You take in the good times and endure the bad time, but it is how you handle yourself in the bad times that proves to you and those around you what kind of man you are. Stay strong and confident that things will work out because one way or another...they always do.

Part of Plan A involves occupying your time and working on yourself constructively. Get a gym membership. Buy a punching bag. Take up racketball. Something to direct your energies, good and bad, towards.

Mr. Wondering

Thank you. I need to calm down a notch and let the machine take over. The punching bag idea sounds like fun. Something to put out in the garage and beat up but not get thrown in jail! I'm in very good shape but I've never tried to hurt anybody. It's scary to be thinking that way.

Surviving the Affair by the Harleys arrived in the mail at work today. I've already read His Needs Her Needs with Kids and Fall in Love Stay in Love. WW saw these two books under the bed and made fun of them in MC. She says our situation is "just so different". I'm really on edge waiting for PI to confirm early next week. Guess I'll stay up late watching the kids sleep.
68

A typical Friday night. I just got the kids in bed a little while ago. I got home from work at 6:30pm and WW was already gone to the pub with the kids. She called at 9:50pm and asked me to come get them because they really wanted to go home right then. I suggested that she bring them home herself as it was past their bedtime (normally 8:00pm). She told me she didn't feel comfortable driving and needed an hour or so before she could drive. I suggested that I come pick them all up and we retrieve her car tomorrow. She begged off, saying she would be fine in a hour and then we wouldn't have to worry about her car in the morning. So I went to the pub and brought my kids home and put them to bed. WW was getting ready to go across the street to another bar where she said her girlfriend had gone earlier. It is now midnight. I don't really expect her home until 2:00am. Does anyone think she might be up to anything sneaky? Rhetorical question.
I talked to my sister tonight. She's 400 miles away but really pi**ed off about this. She and WW were in the same sorority at the same college. Never really close, though.
68

What kind of bar allows wife to sit and drink for hours at end with a four and eight year old in tow????? Are these smoke free environments???? Are you journaling these nights? Include the dates, times, the bars names, and your stated disapproval? Also try to note who she is with and how she is paying for the evening...if she is using cash, running a tab, feeding the kids, using a credit card. There may be some documentation available later if you need it. At least eyewitnesses. If you know the owner or bartender...note the name in your journal as that can be confirmed by timecard later to prove your journal is accurate. Also, try to investigate innocuously whether she is leaving the kids in others care at the bar as she steps out to grab a smoke or have take a call from her girls or OM. This is important stuff to journal as she is not behaving like a mother at all. However, like I said, your journal must reflect that you are stating your disapproval.

Mr. Wondering

p.s.-leave the college out but what soriority????

Mr. W,
She returned at 2:40am. She left again at 8:30am for a volunteer shift at a clothing charity place. Says she'll be back for lunch. I have the kids.
The bar is a restaurant on one side and bar on the other. I think she leaves the kids with her GF on the restaurant side and goes over to the bar to meet whomever. When I arrived to pick up the kids last night her GF was already gone and WW was alone with the kids. The bartender is buddy of WW. Potential OM material for the future, not active as OM now. I think he's too short for her. The sorority is Kappa Alpha Theta.
68

Well a Theta...now that puts a visual in my head.

Anyway...if you anticipate a fight for custody do as I say about journaling. Date each page and be careful not to vent to much in it. It is daily log of what you do and what your wife does to and for the kids. It is admissable a divorce proceeding as a recorded recollection under the hearsay rules and gives you a big advantage versus the typical he say/she say type dispute.

You always have to find ways to document what you say in the journal. For example, you can text someone from you computer instead of phone to phone. Try to have dialogue by such text messages supporting what your journal says, such as:

1. "Don't take the kids to the bar, AGAIN...it's smokey in there and you leave them alone with XYZ to much. I don't trust her. I will be home in a few minutes. Please wait."

2. I can't believe you didn't come home till 2 am. I thought you were just going to sober up for an hour after I picked up the kids from you.

3. etc. Be creative.

The key is to do it while still plan A'ing. To make it nonconfrontational and innocuous. If you are not used to communicating with your wife by text or email...find an excuse to start.

Mr. Wondering

My boss knows much of what's going on in my marriage. Last week he let me in on a secret. In six months or so, I may have an opportunity to accept a position about 200 miles away from where we live now. I could also stay where I am and accept a transfer to another dept. If I could get WW to move it would remove us from the environment of the OM. WW knows nothing of this possibility yet. What are thought on uprooting everyone in the middle of all this? Assuming I could even get her to agree. She may have file for a D by then.
68

If she files, the custody arrangement, no matter who gets it, will probably preclude you moving 200 miles away. However, if you win custody you can petition for court apporval on the move; and, in most states, there are facts upon which such a move can be allowed.

Congrats...but I'd stay tight lipped about this right now. You will most likely save your marriage so it is good news that you will quickly have an exit strategy from the town you now live in. Telling her now may only hasten her resolve to maintain her addiction so she may be more likely to file a divorce sooner. Just my gut feeling.

Recovery is benefitted by a change of scenary not to mention you can expose, expose and expose to those that will help with impunity. You know your leaving and she'll want to too after everyone finds out about her illicit activities.

Good luck,
Mr. Wondering

Lost, anything from the PI yet? Seems like Friday night/Saturday morning should have been a great opportunity for surveilling. You put the times she was gone, including the time she kept the kids with her in the bar, into that journal you’re keeping, right? Right? I just went through your thread and I didn't see anything that indicated you were doing this. Please tell us you are.

The journal is at work so she won't find it. I fill in the weekend details on Monday. It's not very detailed. Just her weird schedule and who she says she's with. The PI is going to try for something on Tuesday when both kids are in school. Yeah, WW probably met OM last night... The PI thinks she'll repeat her pattern and see OM Tues. Wed. Thurs. during the day. It'll be light so better for pictures, video etc. After I take the proof to atty. I can work on exposure. Read Surviving the Affair last night. Harley's don't say much about exposure or did I miss it? I'll go back and read the Plan A stuff again. It sounds like it could potentially take years to get my wife back if I'm lucky. How do you stay motivated?
68

Years...only if you do nothing. Exposure and you sticking to the MB plan will facilitate the demise of their relationship. There is a chance that he or she will end it immediately, unlikely, but a chance. After D-day I endured about 1.5 months and for about 2 weeks of that my wife was gone finding herself (at a hotel with OM). We'll help you through this. Just keep reading and preparing yourself for the battle.

Mr. Wondering

I met with the PI this morning and gave her a retainer. I've set up another bank account so WW can't see this type of transaction. PI says she will watch OM's house on Tuesday. She also made some calls and thinks OM works for a company that sells hot tubs. If he's in sales, that explains his ability to meet WW mid-mornings.

The main thing weighing on my mind now is the D-Day conversation. First I reveal to her some of what I know without revealing how I got it. She's going to want to know that or be totally non responsive and walk away. Then I tell her I'm hurt and disappointed but still love her and want to work things out. I tell her she needs to stop seeing the OM. She'll probably get really mad and refuse, saying I've invaded her privacy, etc. How do I respond to that? She's also going to ask me who I've told. Right now, my parents and sister know just about everything. They are far away though. Do I tell her who knows? If she won't agree to NC with OM I plan to expose to her parents, brother, and OMs wife. What do I say to her if she demands that I tell no one? She's never been one for conflict. I think she'll just clam up and run away.
It would be very helpful if someone who has done this could walk me though some typical D-Day conversations including how to respond to WS babble at this time. I know she's going to turn it into a conversation about what a rotten person I am.
68