Highschool sweetharts, dated since 9th grade, married 7 years, 2 children (2 and 4) at the time of the divorce. My WW is a nurse the OM is a doctor she worked with. Hes 52 and shes 30.

She was raised in an abusive household. She cheated one me once before when we were 19, she said it was stupid and she was drinking and partying alot and although we broke up because of it for nearly a year, she eventually convinced me that she did love me and we got back together.

Fast forward 10 years and it happened again, she swears that she was faithful till she started this thing with the doctor. Basically she ended up in a textbook workplace affair, she wasnt happy, he was nice, she trusted him and it took off from there.

Only slightly unusual thing is that she left to be with him. They had all these plans to be together but he said he couldnt leave his wife till his daughter turns 18, which is in another year or so. His wife has found out in the meantime and hes basically put her on the back burner, now he says that he doesnt love his wife but hes not sure he will ever be able to leave.

Hes a habitual cheater, has been cheating on his wife since they were married 20 years ago but he tells my WW that shes the only one that he truely loved and they are meant to be together, she just has to be strong until he can arrange it. She still buys it some days, others she doesnt.

She doesnt think she could ever feel love for me again. She says that we should stay together for the kids, but she doesnt understand why I wont let her keep seeing him. She says Im being selfish for not letting the kids have a family unless I get affection/sex.

I have been tryin to be a husband for her even tho I divorced her shortly after finding out about her affair. My reasoning was we were still amiable and she was willing to fight over custody or possesions so wee might as well get it over with, after all its easier to undo a divorce than it is to get divorced when you cant stand each other anymore.

Now she throws that into my face, saying that I should have thought about working things out before I divorced her, even tho she had already moved out and refused to quit seeing him.

I dont know how much of this is relevant or not, I could basically write a book about everything that has happened in the last couple years. I have lost about 80lbs since DD which I guess is a good thing, had a really tough time dealing with the situation for quite a while. It is still challenging some days.

I guess Im still in plan A, I have been most of the time but I wasnt doin it very well because I didnt know about this site so I had no guidance. I was busting on her a lot, trying to reason with her and convince her that she was making a mistake. Basically i was tryin to make things better but just pushing her away.

I have been doing real plan A for about a week now, we still get along and I actually spend a good deal of time with her and the kids, but she is still wrapped up in her emotions for him, sayin she loves him and she cant just quit.

She refuses to quit seeing him, since his wife found out he has basically reduced their relationship to talking at work and an occasional phone call. She basically refuses to stop talking to him saying that it wont change anything and it doesnt hurt because shes not able to be with him anyway.

I havent done much to expose them, there have been rumors around the clinic they work in but nothing concrete has come out. There are policies against workplace romances, especially between doctors and nurses but according to my ex when something does come out they usually fire the nurse because doctors are more valuable to the hospital and harder to replace, even when its the doctor that initiated the relationship.

She has threatened to move and take the kids with her if she looses her job, not directly but indirectly she has mentioned it, I think as a deterrernt from me saying anything to her employeer.

Before the affair we tried counceling but it didnt really help, basically it focused on communication and stuff instead of regaining lost feelings. She refuses to go to any more counceling saying that no one can tell her anythin she doesnt already know and talking wont change her feelings.

I still end up staying at her place occasionally and things have gotten better between us but there havent been any dramatic changes in the last 6 months or so and Im beginning to get discouraged. Is it too late for us and how long should I keep this up. I havent been doing the deposits without withdrawl thing for long tho but I really dont know if it will change anything for her, its already been over 2 years that she has been emotionally detached from our marriage. I guess I just dont know when to give up or for that matter how to.

She used to say stuff like "I dont know if I ever loved you" and "I never felt the way about you that I do about him" but now shes starting to talk more like she realizes that she did love me at one time, but she still doesnt think she could ever love me like that again. I try to tell her that she could but she doesnt believe it.

One positive change that has happened in the last few months is that she is saying that she really regrets what happened and getting involved with him, before she never felt any regret or even guilt about what she was doing, she was purely in selfish mode and didnt care about who she hurt in the process.

I think she is honestly about as confused as I am, but she runs purely on emotions and I try to think more logically. I believe there is hope and a solution to our predicament but she feels totally hopeless and that it is beyond her control. Basically she tells me that "it is what it is and there is nothing we can do to change it". She also tells me that ideally she would like to have the feelings for me that she has for him, but she doesnt know how to make that happen.

He is just hanging on to her as a last resort, he comes across as this great guy but I think he is completely selfish and he wont ever willingly let her go, its an ego trip for him to have a young attractive woman chasing after him.

I have not talked to him or even seen him since she told me about the affair, for a while I felt like confronting him about it but I dont see the point. Honestly if I saw him or if he tried to talk to me I dont know if I could resist verbally or physically assulting him. Lord knows he deserves it and even tho it sounds barbaric, it would make me feel a lot better. Should someone be allowed to hurt the people that I care about without consequences? My kids dont deserve what they have been through. Ok enough venting for today, hope you guys have some advice for me.

I have an email that I intercepted from my WW to one of her friends detailing the affair, not sexually explicit or anything, but emotionally from her perspective, its actually quiet interesting and might give others some insight into how the WS feels in these types of situations.

I dont think she did what she did to hurt me specificially, but its quite obvious that she was and is emotionally detached enough to not care if she does hurt me, which is sad and hard to understand.

I don't quite understand. Please clarify. Are you two divorced now? If so, what was the court decision on custody of the children? If you're divorced, why does she say she'll move out and take the kids with her? Hasn't she already done that? Have the two of you discussed reconciliation and is that what you're wanting help with?

AS,

I don't think exposure is what you need to do, that is moot. You are divorced for 2 years after all.

I suggest you read about 180's. Does anyone have that 180 list.

Your ex has you on a string. It is time for you to be nice, polite, not LBing, but aloof, and start looking like you are getting a life.

Since your ex and om are basically over except for work and an occaisional call, she is not getting her EN's met. And now there is all this contact with you. She is getting some EN fix from you, in spite of her criticisms.

Some people might disagree, but your ex knows you will always be waiting for her. I think it is time for that to change.

Who has custody of the children? Are you taking good care of them when you have them?

I would take this time as an opportunity to show your ex that you are moving on with your life, even if you are not, and want to reconcile. She knows you are hanging around waiting.

Time to stop any R talk, or affair talk. Time to start having something to do somewhere to go when she has kids, or comes to get kids, be on the phone, laugh, say, oh just a friend. And start being happy family with those kids if you aren't already, without her in the picture.

Somebody help me here!!!!! Where is that 180 list??

Blessings,
Love in Christ,
Miss M

Please tell us more about your situation and answer the questions posed to you above. My initial take is to do the 180 as suggested by Miss M, and if that does not work, go to full Plan B and let her know that you will not be settle for crumbs. It seems to me that she cake eating...at your expense.

We divorced officially last october, she moved out 2 months before that and the affair started about a year before that, physically at least, emotionally about 6 months before the physical. We have joint physical custody, I have the kids friday - monday she has them monday - friday, about even hours. There is no child support because we make about even $. She has mentioned moving out of town if something would go bad with her work and Im not sure I would want to follow her wherever she would move to, I think thats just a threat but its hard to know for sure. In the past year I have done a little dating but nothing serious as has she. She says that if she cant be with him she thinks she should suck it up and make things work with me so our kids can have a family, but she wont do what it would take to rebuild our relationship, she thinks that all we could have is a "stay together for the kids" friendship type relationship and I couldnt do that because If we cant actually fix things I will never be able to trust her again and maybe I shouldnt anyway, everything is a mess.

She as actually given me a set of keys to her apartment and she wants me to give her keys to my place but I wont do that because I dont trust her and she left in a hurry and every time she comes over she thinks she has the right to leave with whatever she wants and I know that would get worse if she had unfettered access to my house.

I just wish she could be the woman I married again, its almost like shes a stranger in my wifs body some days. She doesnt like any physical contact and Im kind of a touchy kind of person, I get reassurance out of just casual touching and I miss that about our relationship.

I have basically told her that I will not be hanging out with her forever or be able to be "just friends" with her and that makes her mad. She thinks I am trying to control her or manipulate her and Im really not, I tell her Im just giving her time to reconsider and Im not trying to conrol her, but I do have the right to conrol myself and Im not happy with the way things are currently.

As far as her and the OM being over Im not sure about that, he still calls her and she definately still has feelings for him. There have been a few time she has dissappeared overnight but nothin too recently. I think she might just have gone back undercover with him because of his wife finding out but its hard to say, her feelings for him are changing slightly, she doesnt trust him like she used to and she said that half of the time she misses him and the other half shes mad at him for putting her in this situation while he just kept his happy little life and basically has no consequences.

The OM's wife is basically stupid, he told her the affair was just a sex thing because she is out of town most of the year and he was just lonely and that its over, she has no idea how long it was going on or how involved they were/are with each other, she thinks it is over and she has basically done nothing to pull him back into the relationship besides comming home a little more often.

Atomic,

I much prefer the Dr Dobson method instead of the 180. While similar it does have some differences.

Dr Dobson

Thanks for the info, I hope others can help you.

You are right to not want a just friends, or for the kids relationship. I sure wouln't want to be with anyone who said they would have to 'suck it up' to be with me. Yuck.

You are not trying to manipulate, so I suggest that you NOT give her the key to your place, as she is acting like she still has rights, even tho you are divorced.

As I said before, no LBing, no relationship talk, no affair talk. And you are not her 'friend' to talk about this guy anymore.

And by the way, the way she is treating you will not end any time soon, as long as she has contact with the om she is still in fog land. There will be no reconciliation as long is there is contact.

Is there anywhere else she could work in your area? Just wondering. She shouldn't legally be able to take kids away.

Oh, and you need a few more boundaries with this woman.

And you can't 'fix' things. You two will have to rebuild and have a better relationship if anything. You don't want the old one back do you?

I hope you both get some good counseling. Going to work, will check in later.

Any other opinions?

Love in Christ,
Miss M

She works at the hospital and has a special deal they only give to a few nurses that allows her to only work weekends and she gets a $5/hour bonus for doing it. She needs the money and that shift fits into our custody arrangement quite well. There are other places she could work, like she was talking last week about how much nurses are paid in alaska, she even said something like "we could move there and you wouldnt even have to work" but while I like the idea of getting away from the OM I have a good job with the state her and my parents live her and I dont think they would be willing to move and my kids are extremely close to them. I dont want to put myself in the position of being dependant on her and Im not sure if there are a lot of opportunities up there. Also Im very hesitant about committing to anything as radical as moving to a different state in our current situation, maybe once things started to get better between us, but I dont see that happening soon.

AtomicSpin, have you considered sharing that email with the OMW? That might wake her a bit to the reality of the affair and hasten its death. If you compared notes with her, you might be able to kill this affair.

This is a sad case, because some aggressive exposure in the early stages probably could have prevented the divorce by killing off the affair early.

Does your W's family know why you divorced? Has the affair been exposed to them or did you help her hide her dirty secret? Who knows about her affair?

What I am getting at here is that your W will never have feelings for you again as long as OM is still in the picture. She won't have feelings for you until she withdraws from him. That means that you should be doing what you can to kill the affair.

And the most effective weapon in killing off an affair is exposure. It is ruinous to affairs.

If you can do that, then you have a CHANCE to win your wife back and have her fall in love with you again. But, until the affair ends, that is hopeless. She will never fall in love with you until the affair ends.

Another thing you should strongly consider is going to Plan B a few weeks after you expose. She wants to keep you around on the line so you can cater to her needs. The truth is that you meet several of her needs, but she doesn't know this and won't realize it until you are gone. Going dark in Plan B [a complete seperation with no contact] is usually a big shock to the WS, often enough to pull them off the fence. She knows that you meet certain of her needs and wants to use you. Going dark would be a huge wake up call.

I think you are right to not consider reconcilation so you can be a house boy. Better to hold out until she is ready to commit to you as a marriage partner. You don't have to settle for her offer, there are many women out there who would be thrilled to be involved in a REAL marriage with you.

AS...In my case my XW wanted nothing to do with me until I accepted the fact that we were never going to get back together. I had not tried for almost a year. In fact...I had a pretty serious gf I broke up with because I started having feelings for her again..and we had been divorced-separated well over a year....

you may need to look at it this way....you're divorced and there is a reason for that....accept it for what its worth....she may "never come around"....in the mean time you're lamenting it won't bring her any closer....

Hi ((((((AtomicSpin))))))) welcome to a community of folks that believe in self improvement thus enhancing their relationships. Glad you read the homepages & understand the basic concepts. There are letters in the Q&A section that may help you in your personal situ very much.

I am the wife of a former serial cheater.
We are still married & on a good day I honestly think we will grow old together very happy & disgracefully <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

You have both made decisions you regret.
Mistakes do not define us.
Good people make stupid decisions & mistakes every day.
How we handle ours & learn from them while chosing to live fully & happily in the present with our eyes on the future is who we become & what truly defines us is our capacity to love fully & forgive fully & move forward happily, IMO.

It seems from what you have written you ex-wife's otherman is trying to let her down gently as in 'cool-it' so it doesn't blow up for him in his career and in his own family.

No one has control over what your wife does only her.

This is not about the other man this is about your wife & her choices, her feelings & her reactions.

Feelings are transient. Thoughts can develop into actions.
You can help her with her thoughts & comfort her.

You have control over yourself, & some over how your children are treated & reared.

No matter what happens you both will always be connected through your children, so it seems the best route is the one where the children see you as respectful of each other.

It is obvious you still love her & want her.
Is it obvious to her?
Does she know how you feel about her?
About your potential future?
Is she actually interested.

What you are doing currently seems to be working a bit, because of her reactions.

The fact her other relationship is pitering out (cowardly), has possibly made her question her own sense of worth.

I am not experienced enough, to know for sure what can help in turning your status around, what I do know that is paramount in all relationships your wife needs a friend, a confidante, someone she can trust to let her total self out & feel safe in the freedom of acceptance not judgement or admonishment. Will you be that friend for her?

It is an emotional mindfield for yourself to enter into. I know that for fact. Listening to the one you love pour their heart out is at times angst ridden to absolute anger. When you recognise your feelings surging, simply break from the subject at hand, go make a coffee, or stop & breathe remind yourself of the outcome you want, not the arsenal you have to throw. I know it is difficult.

Your wife's retorts are her selfdefense mechanism, she too feels rejected by the divorce & is now being dumped by someone else she thought she trusted. Helping her rebuild her self esteem is another role without you being a doormat.

A thought on the time you spend together, make it fun, & more often child free when possible. Andrenaline charged activities are best <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You have shown strength & courage, stay with thoses values & open your heart if you would like her to confide in you.

Check out Some of Cerri's & SpiderSlayers postings.

Orchid is brilliant at handing back waffle in a coherent fashion that makes the speaker THINK!

Starting out by putting your best foot forward in all context of communication with your ex is the bases. Recognising each other as two totally seperate entities that both have freedom to live as you chose who also happen to have the bonus of shared history & children.

Ps, just so you know, your ex is into you to at times, because you do stay over, you are in contact with each other, so perhaps it is up to you to be the most attractive man for her to chose - just a thought.

I know it's hard, but ohhhhh sooooo worth it in the end.
Even if you don't reunite she will recognise the wonderfulness of you emerging, and it will be her regret too, which seems to be already seeping through her thoughts.

Best wishes

So, what is it that you want to do? Have you sat down and put pros and cons on regaining your wife's affection and then re-marrying? What would your boundaries be? She might be considered a serial cheater. How would you spell out your feelings on on a subsequent betrayal to her? What kind of counseling would you demand? Exactly how would you ever trust her to not repeat this behavior the next time life throws a curve at her? I think I’ll stop with that. There are lots and lots of other questions I think you need to ask yourself but that should be a good start. Basically, you’ve got to go deep inside yourself and find out what you really want before you do another thing.

I’d say you need to check with your attorney about your wife being able to take the children out of state, or even out of the immediate vicinity. Many decrees restrict the former but I’m not sure about the latter. If yours doesn’t, can’t your attorney go back to family court and ask for that addition to the original decree? Also, are nurses even able to pick up and leave one state and go to another and continue to “practice?” Are their boards to pass and licenses to arrange? Is her threat to leave an empty one or not? Don’t be guessing. I think it’s too important.

Atomic you said
"The OM's wife is basically stupid, he told her the affair was just a sex thing because she is out of town most of the year and he was just lonely and that its over, she has no idea how long it was going on or how involved they were/are with each other, she thinks it is over and she has basically done nothing to pull him back into the relationship besides comming home a little more often."

Where did you get that information???

Have YOU spoken directly with the Wife.

All duped wife's & husband's are considered stupid by their spouse's affair partners.

She doesnt have a normal family. Her mom knows about the affair but they dont really tell he what to do and if they did she wouldnt listen. If I sent the letter she wrote to the the OM's wife she would for sure run to him with it and my WW would be irate about it. It would be nice in a way if her work would find out about it and pressure him to shape up and quit flirting with the nurses but Im afraid they would protect him and come down on my WW instead, from what she has told me that seems to be the policy there, protect the doctors at the expense of the nurses. I was the one to tip his wife off anonymously the first time, but shes so dense she ran right to him, he admitted to it but swore it was over and she has since dropped it. I tipped her off again just a few weeks ago, but I havent given her any details or she would know who it was from and that would really piss off my WW plus then she would know I have access to her email and that might also piss her off and end my ability to get a feel for what is going on with her. All the OM's wife does is go running back to her WH who denies anything is going on and she is still stupid enough to believe him, you would think she would at least move back and try to monitor him more closely. She is currently living out of state because her kids go to a private school and she wants to be there with them but hes got a good job here and doesnt want to relocate. She is gone most of the year, comes back for holidays and during the summer.

Thoughts that might work,

Fwd the flipping email to wife, annonymously if you must.

The fact that it would p'off your wife - wopdedoo - don't you think having a friggin affair p'd you off.

What did she expect, you'd say thank you mam?

Information is power when used.

Mrs Dr may actually be living her own independent life too, if handed hard evidence she would be forced to react, & possibly does not want to rock her own boat too much, you owe her NO Loyalty. You deserve the full power you have to use to the best of your ability to protect yourself & your children & your wife.

Confession from a former nervous frightened wife.

I 'accidently' hit reply all!!!!

Wohoo!!! Every action has an equal & opposite reaction.

The anger was at being exposed! Even humiliated.
The reality was that it was the adulterors choice to take such a risk. That was always the buzz of being found out.

When the smoke cleared so to did the playing field.

We were then in a position to face each other as equals.

AtomicSpin, maybe if you would stop doing this anonymously and keep her informed about the affair, it might finally end. You could compare notes, which would help kill the affair and prevent the OM from spinning the affair. You should WANT your W to know that it is you who exposed the OM to his W. That tells your W that you will do what it takes to save your marriage and expose her affair.

And I am flabbergasted you didn't expose this affair at the hospital. That is a powerful weapon that you have in your hand that could have killed this affair long ago. Why are you protecting the OM?? Are you on his side or yours, because I can't tell the difference!

The OM would not touch your W with a 10' pole if he thought it would ruin his career. And maybe the hospital would protect him, but that would still squeeze the OM and force him to stay away from your W. Of course, this would have been much more effective when you were married, but it would still help at this late date.

My gosh, you have so many powerful weapons in your hand to save your marriage and you haven't even used them. You would rather lose your marriage than make your W mad. Why not do something to save your marriage, AtomicSpin?

Its all heresay from what my WW tells me. I dont think she is lying to me most of the time, I think she only lies when she has to to protect him or their activities. We are actually close in a way that I think many couples never are. When we started dating we both had to deal with her mother abusing her and that was extremely tough. We have been through a lot together. I guess one reason that I think the OMS is stupid is because I know her, I have been to dinner parties with them before the A started and I dont like her, she is very headstrong and opinionated and we just have conflicting personalities. Also if you found out your spouse of 20 some years has been cheating on you basically since you got married would you still let him run free and continue to live in a different state with your kids? I mean really now dense can you be. She has the means to at least hire a PI to keep tabs on him. When I emailed her a few weeks ago I directed her to the article on what to do with a cheating husband and I told her "all cheaters are liars, dont trust him". Hopefully that might help her better understand the situation. I feel that shes in a better place to change things than I am right now, if she comes down harder on him I think he will putll farther away from my WW and maybe even break it off completely. But unfortunately I don trust her not to run to him immediately if I give her more details and that could negatively affect the progress that I seem to have made lately with my WXW.

AtomicSpin,

What is it you exactly want? Your ex-wife still continues to do the same thing she did to cause your divorce.

Now she is "maybe" being dropped by OM, and she is now looking to you?

I don't know how you have continued to put up with her continued disrespect for you for so long, and even still after the divorce.

Don't let her play you as 2nd fiddle. She is your EX-WIFE now.

I hope Peachy sees this one.

Lady