It's called "The Prodigal's Perspective" by Bob Steinkamp. The format is a bunch of questions from the BSs that he answers (he was a FWH). Found it very helpful.

thank you marshall

any specific examples that you thought were good you can share?

1. Said he thought about coming home a lot. Said he always asked himself,"What will be different if I come home (he needed to see things could be better)."

2. Said that the WS thinks about us as much as we think about them

3. Things are not all "rosey" in A-land (my counselor agreed-- said many people in As are miserable. And that the As are not about the BS, they are about some issue with the WS.)

4. They try to recreate their life with us in their new place


Loved, loved, loved this book (insight into the WS mind). And, another thing a friend told me was that it was a process to get to a point of being willing to leave, it will be a process getting back home (took him 8 mos and there was no OW! The guy in the book D'ed his W and was gone 2 years, and then they remarried)

thanks for the examples Marshall...they sound like things that i NEED to hear

i checked on amizon.com...they have no copies right now

i'm checking rejoice ministries

i do think that i saw this at a christian bookstore i was at recently

Thank you Marshall .... I will definatley look for this book .....

Maybe it can help with understanding a little more what WH'S feel and think .....

At a time when everything is so uncertain, I found it to be very soothing and insightful. Helped me to see that what I am making things out to be in my mind is probably not accurate. But, then I think maybe they are the exception. I don't think so though, not based on how she has spoken about OM.
Another thing he said he did was "try to push buttons [of BS] to see if the changes she was making were real." He had to trust that she was not just putting on a show for him and the changes were permanent. My friend said he did the same thing to his wife and "she passed". The first guy said it was "like all of her buttons, the things that would have made her crazy before, were deactivated, I could not get her to react, no matter what I did." Sounds to me like what your WH has been doing, Hurtin. Do not give them what they want. May apply to your dog sitch too, Eav, so not sure if you should give the satisfaction of knowing he got to you, but then again, your "child" should not be a pawn. But, this guy used any means necessary to "break" her, such as not showing up to get kids, being late on CS payments, etc. Anything he could use, he did. And, even then, he did not come right home.
And, my friend said he was pretty certain he was coming home after about 6 mos., but it took another two months "for both of us to be ready".
Rejoice ministries is probably the easiest way to get the book, but I would think any Christian bookstore would carry it too.

Marshall,

I am going to go today and see if I can find the book at our christian book store. If not I will get it from rejoice ..

Oh yeah I think y WH is trying to push buttons and he has been for months.... I think I have done real well in not reacting. I have not had any angry outbursts or done anything to let him know he has gotten to me. Its just not worth it ..... He has seen the changes and has commented on them many times before planb. So he knows they are happening...

Thanks again for the book name.... It is definatley something I want to read.....

Well I went to every christian book store in town and no one had this book.... So I guess I gonna have to order on line..... But I did get Love Must be Tough... I have not read this one yet....

i called 4 book stores including the one that i thought had it...no-one has it so i'll have to order it too

could you give somemore examples marshall...ordering by mail will take awahile for us to get it!

Love Must be Tough is my very favorite.

It totally is for me. Was for me. SAA and that were my two books I practically memorized.

And sadly, LMBT recognizes that some spouses in A's do not come back. And it does give a breakdown of what happens when an affair leads to a long term relationship. It is fantasyland over!

And it is realistic. No sugar coating.

Although I am past the divorce now...I understand about the part where the WS tries to recreate the life they once had with their H or W.

My xh has done the following since marrying ow:
1)purchased EXACTLY THE SAME make and color of suv that I USED TO DRIVE TO GIVE TO OW/W...
2)named the baby girl THE NAME I PICKED OUT SEVEN AND A HALF YEARS AGO FOR OUR CHILD HAD IT BEEN A GIRL.
3)named his DOG the same name I HAD PICKED OUT FOR OUR OTHER DOG..akc could not change its name from its original akc name.
4)takes OW/W TO SAME PLACES AND RESORTS THAT WE USED TO GO TO...
5)is building a house that is my style...ow'w really has NO style of her own. He is still living in the premise that the ghost of me will reside there or something?
6)told ds this year that "he loved me"...and wierd stuff like that. He told ds, "yes I love mommy very much but we aren't married anymore"..what is with that?

JP-

I have Love Must Be Tough too and really liked it. But, I have a hard time reconciling what he says with a Plan A. hard to do both at the same time. If I am missing something, let me know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

1. He says that based on his own experience and many years of talking with others, is that all prodigals think about going home a lot.

2. He says he never stopped thinking about going home (it was not only after the A started to fall apart).

3. He says their life is not as great as BS think it is, but they are too proud to let us see that.

4. He says he felt guilty all the time.

5. He said the weekends were especially hard because he felt like something was missing/that life was not as it should be.

6. He says it is not possible to walk out on your family and just forget them.

7. WS say we should find someone else to make them feel less guilty, but deep down, that is not what they really want. He says he really did not know this until he thought she had found someone else (was a mistake).

8. They enjoy the nice things we do for them.

9. He continued to think of her as his wife, though they were D'ed. He said those moments came more and more often.

10. While they are with the OP, they are bombarded with thoughts of you, their family, your life with them, the memories of you, and the problems they have created.

11. He had a medical emergency, and his ex-wife is who he called, not the OW.

12. They want to see changes in us, not hear words talking about it.

13. It is like a pendulum. They will swing into our lives for a time, and then disappear for awhile. The closer they come to us, usually the farther they will go away.

14. You cannot know what is in their hearts and they probably will not tell you.

15. They lie to the OP too.

16. The OP has a lot of control over the WS. Feels like the OP is pulling their strings, like a puppet. They want to impress the OP. They get scared of losing the OP.

17. They will not stand up for us with the OP.

18. They will usually "test the waters" before coming home.
His guilt got worse during this time.

19. They say,"I am never coming home," to convince themselves, not us.

20. They do not think we are as bad as they make us out to be. WS is often saying what OP needs to hear and to keep the peace.

21. WS says things they do not mean, they also mean things they cannot say.

22. The holidays are hard on the WS as they attempt to replicate the family traditions with the OP. Spending holidays with OP and their family is weird and uncomfortable. He felt out of place.

23. The OP give ultimatums.

wow Marshall that is some interesting stuff.....

It would just be so much easier to come home than live like that.....

I can't wait to get his book and read it ...

wow marshall!!

has he interviewed other WS to get this info??

How i hope and pray these are true for my H!!

I found out today that my WH is trying to recreate part of his life at home....

He got a kitten and has named it the same name as our female dog that he loves.... Pretty strange if ya ask me... I wonder if OW realizes the cat has the same name as our dog ????

i'd rather have THAT crap than what i've got...my H just borrows the dogs to recreate his life and then doesn't bring them back until i beg

I know eav that sucks ......

My WH wanted the dogs last weekend and I refused .... To bad he walked away from them so its his problem not mine ...

marshall

i really want to thank you for these. I cut/pasted them onto a word document and printed them out so i can re-read them.

i'm crossing my fingers that my H is thinking these things!

i don't know though..he did SEE that i had changed...for a year...and it didn't seem to make a difference. He said too little too late and "you're not the person i want to do things with anymore."

I know I have those fears myself. I think we are all in the same boat.

Hi Marshall,

Thanks for your post.

Re: Love Must Be Tough
I had to reconcile MB with LMBT myself.

The 1st thought I will share is to look at the copyright date on LMBT.

The 2nd is look at your situation and compare it very closely to the book. "Opening the cage door" is very similar to plan A without the LMBT letter.

The 3rd is "Creating a crisis" is similar to exposing the A or the problem. I think that the sooner one acts the better the chances are for recovery.

The letters in LMBT are I think are good 1st draft to a plan B letter.

However,in my situation "Creating a crisis" was the wrong thing for me to do. Since my H had already moved out. It set me back about 2 months. I lost at least 6 weeks of very hard plan A work.

Steve H. told me that most of us can only do a good plan A for about 6-8 weeks if I understood him correctly.

I lost a lot of time and hard work by not recognizing my circumstances were differant than those in the LMBT book. (For those of you that might be wondering I did that before I got Steve's advice on my situation). Even Dr D. doesn't recomend you "create a crisis" alone with out a councilor's help.

hope it helps some,
VTY