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I totally get the why to do the exposure thing, but he doesn't care - or says he doesn't. see below Just got of the phone with H. I very very calmly laid it on the line ofr him again and said to him, "I know you are having an affair, blah blah blah" Blah meaning reiterating the facts/evidence that I have. so he says, "okay so I am having an affair, lets just go with that. I don't care anymore, tell the world. I am tired of dealing with this. I just don't care anymore. You can tell everyone you caught us screwing on the floor and I wouldn't care - I am just tired. now what?" So I calmly asked him, " so you are admitting that you are having an affair" and he said, "no I am just telling you what you believe and what you want to hear. I can't convince you otherwise, can I?" Should I still do it, or continue for a bit with Plan A. really seeking an answer. Seeking advice or sanity - whichever comes first??!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
Separated: 12/18/2005
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Alison,
He's bluffing!
Of course he cares if everyone knows, that's why he's been LYING about it all this time!!! He is TRYING to throw you off, and it's WORKING!!
There is a section in Donald Harvey's "When the One You Love Wants to Leave" (book) that talks about manipulative ploys and manipulative people. I know you don't want to think of your H as a lying manipulator, but that is what this affair hs reduced him to. Believe me, the WS can look you right in the eye and tell you anything you need to hear, to keep getting away with what they are doing.
His end of the above conversation doesn't convince ME of anything except that he's a textbook adulterer. Sorry.
Expose!
BW 43 me
FWH 39
M 1992; DD 18. 13
OC 8-05 - no contact
In recovery 8 years
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Mrs. I have read all of Jaysmom and I just do not feel as though I have the strength that she has got. I feel impatient and very weak. I do believe he is manipulating me, but gosh i want so badly to see the good in him.
If I choose to wait on the exposure, how long should I do Plan A? OR IF I choose to do the exposure, should I do it before the business trip. I feel if I do it before it will push H even further into her arms.
Deperately wanting to believe WH. Still not knowing which way to go. Fell that either way (expose or wait) that I am losing or have already lost him.
Separated: 12/18/2005
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Alison, I'm glad you had a chance to read Jaysmom's thread. It's funny you don't feel you have her strength; we all seem to marvel at one another's strength but sell ourselves short about our own! Strength comes from God, you can have as much of THAT strength as you want - you just have to ask for it!
I think you underestimate the power of the affair. OW came back from the business trip to Mexico with my H pregnant, so naturally I'm biased, but yeah, I would expose before the business trip. People in the middle of torrid affairs often don't use protection, and pregnancies are common.
You CAN Plan A without exposing I guess, but I don't know how much good it will do you - the difference between being a doormat and being a wife your H wants to come home to is self-respect. Exposure weighs in on the side of self-respect.
I know you want to believe him, I know you do. I know you don't want to believe it is really THIS bad, and you have to do something THIS drastic. You are right to feel you are losing him; you are, to the affair. It's usually temporary, but one he[l of a ride... definitely something you want to shorten as much as possible.
You would NOT believe how long a man can "sit on the fence" between two women and NOT decide if neither one MAKES him. Ask around here at MB, I believe the answer is "indefinitely" or "forever."
Do yourself a favor and bring this to a head - this is time for courage and strength - do it for your DD.
MSA
BW 43 me
FWH 39
M 1992; DD 18. 13
OC 8-05 - no contact
In recovery 8 years
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Well, can you afford a Private Investigator? You could attempt a Plan A while waiting for more. However, I think we all agree this has all the hallmarks of a man involved in an affair.
Perhaps a PI where he is going for business?
Last edited by mojodiva; 01/02/06 12:15 AM.
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Mrs.,
If he is in love with her, what kind of chnace do I stand? I believe she makes him feel the way he felt when he and I were dating. because i have "changed" according to him (and yes I have changed. I became a responsible wife, teammate, and mother - he did none of those)and he just wants our marriage to be just like when we were dating.
I want to say to him, we are not dating, we are married, and we have a child. Things have chnaged and we must act accordingly.
He says he refuses to change and that he is who he is. He has said that I cannot handle who he really is. I am not sure that I can.
I have asked him to give up this "friendship" for the sake of our marriage and he flat out said, "NO, If I do that for yo Alison, what will I have to do next?"
So doesn't that answer my question as to what he wants. Shouldn't I just forget it? I am really feeling low and am having tremendous doubts about my wanting the marriage and my wanting a better life without him. Not sure right now which would be my best course of action.
Separated: 12/18/2005
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Another thing - real quick, he has been making the effort to go to a therapist (Big step for him) and I do believe he is going. Is this a start? could he actually have a consciense?
Also - he did say this evening that he thinks in order for us to really try to work out our marriage, that we really need to be separate. At this point, we hang out all the time and he sleeps at his apartment. What should I do with that??
Separated: 12/18/2005
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Well, as my pastor told me when I called him with the news of my WH's A... "I'm sorry this is happening to you. There is no easy way out of this. Recovery after infidelity is hard. Divorce, especially with young children, is hard. Those are the only two paths, and they are both difficult." The fact that he is in the WS fog does not entirely excuse or explain his lack of overall maturity, believe me BTDT. Read the following, it helps explain WHY he got pulled in to this. Also the outcome. Also, one other thing, this took me forever to learn... you will not be able to TALK him into changing his mind about the A, you, or what he wants. There is no rational or irrational argument you can make that will make him "wake up and do the right thing." Your BEHAVIOR is what will determine what he does. Read what Frank Pittman says about 'romantic infidelity'
Quote:
ROMANTIC INFIDELITY
Surely the craziest and most destructive form of infidelity is the temporary insanity of falling in love. You do this, not when you meet somebody wonderful (wonderful people don't screw around with married people) but when you are going through a crisis in your own life, can't continuing living your life, and aren't quite ready for suicide yet. An affair with someone grossly inappropriate-someone decades younger or older, someone dependent or dominating, someone with problems even bigger than your own-is so crazily stimulating that it's like a drug that can lift you out of your depression and enable you to feel things again. Of course, between moments of ecstasy, you are more depressed, increasingly alone and alienated in your life, and increasingly hooked on the affair partner. Ideal romance partners are damsels or "dumsels" in distress, people without a life but with a lot of problems, people with bad reality testing and little concern with understanding reality better.
Romantic affairs lead to a great many divorces, suicides, homicides, heart attacks, and strokes, but not to very many successful remarriages. No matter how many sacrifices you make to keep the love alive, no matter how many sacrifices your family and children make for this crazy relationship, it will gradually burn itself out when there is nothing more to sacrifice to it. Then you must face not only the wreckage of several lives, but the original depression from which the affair was an insane flight into escape.
People are most likely to get into these romantic affairs at the turning points of life: when their parents die or their children grow up; when they suffer health crises or are under pressure to give up an addiction; when they achieve an unexpected level of job success or job failure; or when their first child is born-any situation in which they must face a lot of reality and grow up. The better the marriage, the saner and more sensible the spouse, the more alienated the romantic is likely to feel. Romantic affairs happen in good marriages even more often than in bad ones.
Both genders seem equally capable of falling into the temporary insanity of romantic affairs, though women are more likely to reframe anything they do as having been done for love. Women in love are far more aware of what they are doing and what the dangers might be. Men in love can be extraordinarily incautious and willing to give up every-thing. Men in love lose their heads-at least for a while.
BW 43 me
FWH 39
M 1992; DD 18. 13
OC 8-05 - no contact
In recovery 8 years
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Mrs, I read that quote on another thread and actually sent it to myself in an email to maybe send to WH. I understand he is like an addict at this point, but I feel like I am too. I am an addict to his B*llSh*t and his handsome face.
I feel like this is too new and that I am just not positive enough. Gosh, I need strength right now. I need to respect myself enough to take control of the situation. He obviously has the upper hand right now.
He is a bad man. I just feel like I don't have enough to prove anything. I really think I may stake out his car - gosh I hope I can find it. and I hope I can get the key from him.
I will try anything at this point...
Separated: 12/18/2005
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He told me that if people asked him if he was having an affair that he would just say, "yeah, why not" -- so this says to me that he can just pawn off my 'exposure' to me being "crazy" or because of my post pardum depression.
So, I am thinking that I must get photo or taped proof to be able to really prove this affair is going on. Until then, I feel that I don't have enough solid evidence to expose.
It is getting very difficult for me right now because I am so anxious about the trip to CA. I am thinking something is definitely going to happen there. I want so much to have my proof soon, so I can get on with saving my marriage.
I am so scared. I am still trying Plan A, but it does get really hard when I think about them together, and I practically have to bite my tongue in order to not say something hostile or sarcastic.
I also feel that it is difficult for me to try to meet his EN's right now because I feel like he has disrespected our family and our marriage so much that I should just not speak to him at all. I feel like that maybe would shake him up a bit.
Please help. I am struggling today. I did get a great nights sleep though - first in about 9 months since he has DD last night.
BTW - he did speak about other ways we could help our marriage last night. does that say anything? He did seem sincere about that - or am I just blinded??
Separated: 12/18/2005
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Alison -
There isn't much anyone can do for you that they haven't ALREADY done. Not until YOU stand up with your back straight and your head high and stop with the antics. You have received advice from some of the best and brightest experts here. These people KNOW the only hope is to walk a specific path out of this mess. There's no guarantee that you'll win your H back but without taking these specific steps you're sure to lose.
So what's it going to be? Become a warrior of strength and determination and fight the good fight for you and your baby or continue to waffle and be played and then come back and second guess THAT WHICH YOU ALREADY KNOW?
This friendly 2x4 provided by one who cares.
Be well.
FIGHT!
Me (BS) 36
FWW 35
Married 5/25/91
DS-7
DD - Born 11/8/05 !!!
PA #1 12/1996
PA #2 4/01 to 1/04
NC 1/04
There are people in the world so hungry, that God cannot appear to them except in the form of bread.
- Mahatma Gandhi
Don't think exposure is a good idea? Go here...
From Harley Himself
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Thank you Fluke. I know what I have to do. I am trying very hard to muster up the strength to do it. I love and appreciate the support I am getting here. I AM LISTENING, I SWEAR!!
I am doing my homework so to speak, and planning the best strategy FOR ME. I will come up with it, God will help me, I know he will.
Separated: 12/18/2005
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Yes, God WILL help you Alison. Just ask.
Lastly, remember this please:
The courage to do something comes FROM the doing, not before.
Go get 'em and don't second guess.
Praying for you.
Me (BS) 36
FWW 35
Married 5/25/91
DS-7
DD - Born 11/8/05 !!!
PA #1 12/1996
PA #2 4/01 to 1/04
NC 1/04
There are people in the world so hungry, that God cannot appear to them except in the form of bread.
- Mahatma Gandhi
Don't think exposure is a good idea? Go here...
From Harley Himself
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Thinking about your fear, Allison, and remembering my own - afraid to do anything, rock the boat, drive H further away. All the wrong things, btw.
Consider this - my situation: After the full-blown PA was discovered by me, H "broke it off", promised NC, and we were in (false) recovery. Working on our M, feeling closer, thinking things were on the right track, starting to trust him again, I was troubled when, without warning, I saw THAT look on his face again; this was 3 months after he broke it off. Something told me to do a little checking. And I found the e-mails between H & ow. H and ow had restarted e-mail C, resuming the EA aspect of the A.
I was terrified. And, up until that day, I had not found MB. I found it that night, thank God. And I started to learn to do recovery the right way. It took all the courage I had to confront H with what I knew. Believe me, I prayed so hard before the confrontation. I kept the mantra going in my head, "Let the chips fall where they may".
H was furious. Projecting it all back to me. Defending the "friendship". Making it all about my "snooping" and not about the renewed C/EA.
Fortunately, I had read enough to know about Fog, WD, etc. I stood firm, calm. I told him we had to have NC with a NC letter. It took 2 long days, but he wrote it.
We have been in a true Recovery with NC for 16 months - and I know this because I keep checking.
It is harder for you because your H is not living at home. We know that. So, part of your challenge will be to get him back home.
But, do not believe his claim that he does not care if you expose. He is bluffing, hoping to manipulte you into stopping your challenge. When he says, "If I give up this "friendship for you, what will I have to give up next?", you could ask him, "What would you want if the tables were reversed? I want no more from you thatn you would want from me."
Be strong. You can do it. Pray hard. Ask God to send His angels to sit on your shoulders to strengthen you.
Praying for you.
me-FBS M-6/84 3 great kids
A-2/03-5/04 DDay-5/8/04 WD - severe-5/04-9/04 with continuing C; NC ltr-9/3/04
In Recovery with God's help
Praying for all WS/BS. Blessings!
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Alison,
I am new here and as soon as I saw your post I thought OH MY GOD this is my twin!
I do not have any children, but I can definitley relate.
Your husband sounds alot like mine used to be.... a con artist!
How is his family taking all of this? Do they know the details?
I saw that you said that you were going through post partum depression and that your mom was sick. I am so sorry for what is happening to you. You WILL GET thru this. GOD WILL never leave you nor forsake you. Everything you are going through is for a reason. You may not understand that right now, but in time you will.
Know that all these people have been where you are and we are all behind you, infront of you, and beside you.
take care,
Ferra
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Ferra - I would like to hear more about your story and your WH. Please fill me in. If you would like to email me feel free!!!
Alison
Separated: 12/18/2005
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