Yes Cat, I did. I'm still trying to work out what's feasible for me.

[quoteI get the feeling that you see his need for an attractive spouse that isn't obese as somehow invalid. Is that true? You are comparing obesity to armpit hair . . .
[/quote]

I think it's a fair comparison because MH isn't saying he's worried about his W's health, he's saying her size is repelling him sexually. Just as, I suspect, armpit hair would someone else.

I don't know how I feel about emotional needs, as described here. Or maybe I should say that I don't know how valid I think it is to use a lack of an emotional need being met as a reason to divorce. Needs change, and in respect to something as superficial as looks, I would think they would have to.

Either way, it comes down to this: if his wife never changes (because again, we can only change ourselves) what will this man do? What would you (any one of you) do?

I would like to add this thought, as well. It seems to me that the issue comes back to "intent" of the wife. Can she help that she's fat? Most say yes. If she couldn't for some reason, would anyone's reasoning change? Would the H's needs change? If she got cancer and lost a limb or breast, would his needs change? Knowing that she had no control over cancer, would our responses change?

Absolutely! Cancer is different - she has no control over it. Losing weight is all about intent - if she intends to lose weight and takes the actions necessary, MisHubby will find her more attractive. Star even spelled this out about her and her H - he loves to see her in sweats, whether or not she has made progress yet, her intent is to lose the extra pounds, and he loves her more for it.

lmjs

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you. No reason to. You're entitled to your opinion and shouldn't feel the need to "argue" that its right, anymore than anyone else should have to. But you know, I've noticed that most times when someone gets so bent out of shape over another's opinion, its because that person feels there is some truth to it, and that's what really ticks them off. You can go off on this one if you want, but keep in mind, you're more likely to be heard when you talk instead of rant.

Wish you all the best
Tama

reality checque,

I think it's a fair comparison because MH isn't saying he's worried about his W's health, he's saying her size is repelling him sexually. Just as, I suspect, armpit hair would someone else.

No one has told this man to divorce his wife except a few ladies who feel as though his attitude about wanting to be sexually attracted to his wife is shallow. The rest of us....who see this as a VALID need, would also try and help him to deal with an armpit issue if that were the issue. Anything that destroys love and interferes with the meeting of ENs...big and small is a valid concern and affects marriages.

I don't know how I feel about emotional needs, as described here. Or maybe I should say that I don't know how valid I think it is to use a lack of an emotional need being met as a reason to divorce.

Again....who is saying divorce? Go back and read who has suggested divorce....it's the not the folks saying this is a valid need....it's the folks who are saying it isn't.

Needs change, and in respect to something as superficial as looks, I would think they would have to.

"Superficial" is another way of saying "shallow" and there are a whole lot of men out there that are getting pretty dang tired of hearing how wanting an attractive spouse is a crime. I am telling you right now....if this were a woman complaining that her H was obese and that she was repulsed by him....the responses would be entirely different.

Either way, it comes down to this: if his wife never changes (because again, we can only change ourselves) what will this man do? What would you (any one of you) do?

The gentleman already answered this question. He said he's stay for his child. He'd do the right thing and stick with his wife, but he wouldn't be sexually fulfilled or especially happy. He even said he'd probably take anti-depressants that could lower his libido. I'm not sure what you want? What is probably NOT within his power....is to "become" sexually attracted to someone who is obese.

I would like to add this thought, as well. It seems to me that the issue comes back to "intent" of the wife. Can she help that she's fat? Most say yes. If she couldn't for some reason, would anyone's reasoning change?

Attractive spouse is NOT about normal changes, aging, illness etc. Weight gain...that is about self control and not illness....is worth tackling. Other things...are not. Again, no one (who is making an attempt to understand his need) is suggesting divorce.

Would the H's needs change?

No, they would not change....but probably if he was a good man who loved his wife, he would do what the serenity poem says: "God give me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference."

If she got cancer and lost a limb or breast, would his needs change? Knowing that she had no control over cancer, would our responses change?

Of course....this is a no brainer chere. Overeating is not the same thing as cancer or a lost limb.

I really think that men for the most part are willing to accept the natural changes in women's bodies....not all...but most. Even the gradual weight gain associated with natural aging and having babies....but when a woman gains over 50 lbs or more....she no longer resembles the woman he married.

And something that hasn't been mentioned AT ALL....is that there is a DIRECT relationship between depression and obesity (again...we're not talking about a few extra pounds here)....so the majority of the women themselves are JUST as unhappy about their bodies. It's bad for her health. It's bad for her psyche. And it's bad for her marriage. Even if her husband has a low AS need...those things are still going to be true.

starfish,

Why the hostility?

I was asked if I believed it was a need, and I said that I question the validity of "emotional needs not being met" as a basis for divorce. Not this one man's situation, but the idea of emotional needs as a whole.

And for the record, cancer wouldn't change his needs, if I'm understanding the concept correctly. So, in that example, he would have to change his needs, or accept it (whether he stayed in the marriage or not). I am suggesting the same is true in this case, or any other where the need isn't being met. Someone, somewhere, must change. I suggest it be the person who has the control: SELF.

One more thought:

This man changed the rules after the game began. It's been said before in this thread, but bears repeating.

He knew who she was and married her anyway. No matter what the reason for her weight gain, whether she 'controls' it or not, whether we agree or not, HE changed the rules.

He expected (and expects) her to change. Why should she? She thought she was being loved for who she was, not who she might become.

I think that's brutally unfair.

This is very true. A dramatic change such as cancer won't change his need. But, I think most people appreciate that their partner recognizes their need and validates it by trying to meet it. In this regard cancer recovery and weight loss could not be different. In most cases, weight gain is a lifestyle issue that can be modified. Seeing your partner try to meet the need speaks volumes, even before physical changes occur.

I meant "could not be more different"


In regard to when he married her, he has stated that she lost some weight, and he thought it was the beginning of a trend that would continue. That was a foolish assumption that seems to have been based on his unspoken expectations, but not quite what you accuse him of. this is in no way a defense of his actions, but most of us have unspoken expectations of our partner (at least before coming to this website and following the materials).

RC and star- I don't think your opinions are that far off from each others. It seems you both agree on who really needs to change- MH. Okay, MH wasn't honest from the start (with his wife or himself)- that's true. But that point is moot. He's here for advice on what he can do NOW. I think he's been given great advice on steps he can take to change HIMSELF. Hopefully by doing so it will bring his wife to look at changes she can do (however, it is not a certainty that this will happen). MH has three choices (already stated by another poster I believe):

1) Get out of the marriage in which he feels trapped to a lifetime of depression as a result of unmet needs.
2) Remain as status quo in a "depressing" marriage.
3) Attempt to make changes within himself and how he interacts with his wife and see where it leads. The results of the changes results can define whether he reverts to #1 or #2 OR possibly find a new option where the marriage is actually better than its current state.

It's up to you MH- you've got choices. We can make that choice for you. I wish you the best.

Hi MH,

I realized you never answered some questions I posted back at the beginning of the thread, so here they are again:

It's true you can't help her lose weight or do any of it for her. But you can negotiate ways to deal with the challenges she faces getting that done to find options you're both happy with. Are you willing to learn to cook special meals for her that are both tasty and fit a healthy diet plan that works for her? Are you willing to take up whatever form of exercise she finds fun with her if that makes it more fun for her? There are lots of options.

realitycheque,


I'm tired of hearing this lie repeated over and over in this thread.

What bears repeating is that she LOST the weight before I proposed. She was about 25lbs away from what would be considered a normal, healthy weight (not model-thin, but *normal*), and still losing weight.

POMH

So when he first started dating her, he should have just taken her at face value then & never went out with her again. Even if she said that she would try to lose the weight.....b/c people should not change after they get married. OK so the blame is on you MH. bs

You have a legitimate issue MH. Peoples needs can change. Your need is not invalid at all.

In a word, yes. But she and I have been down many of these roads before. There seems to be a misconception here that this is some secret issue I've been hiding from her for ten years; nothing could be further from the truth.

I know that she'd *like* to lose weight. The question is, where will she find sufficient motivation to stick with the effort? How can I make *this* time different?

It doesn't appear that I have much influence; my being several large steps beyond unhappy is *obviously* not sufficient motivation. Which kind of sucks, eh?

I think I must give this a rest for a bit as I'm in a crappy mood --- just got back from the vet's office --- and I'm likely to say things I'll regret later.

But thanks everyone ... I appreciate the input. I'd have spoken to her last night, but she had to get up early this morning for a short trip, and needed sleep, not conversation.

Miserable,

One thing I am noticing is you are mainly replying to those who are getting on your case or arguing with you or each other BUT you are rarely replying to those who have offered solid advice or suggestions. Why is that? You've gotten some good advice from some good people here.

Symphony

PS: It's general practice since this is a public message board that you take what you can use and ignore the posters or posts that aren't beneficial to you. I think you would be better served to practive that and stick to the issue you have and what you CAN do about it rather than endlessly defending yourself against other peoples opinions. It's a big waste of energy.

"It's general practice since this is a public message board that you take what you can use and ignore the posters or posts that aren't beneficial to you. I think you would be better served to practive that and stick to the issue you have and what you CAN do about it rather than endlessly defending yourself against other peoples opinions. It's a big waste of energy. "

I totally agree with this notion. There will always be those that will flame you or give advice that won't help you. Two years ago when I came to this site, I was told that it was my fault that my wife had an A. So expect to get advice & logic that is counter productive.

So? That doesn't stop you from buying healthy food, refraining from buying unhealthy food, cooking a nutritious healthy dinner everyday for both of you, doing physical activities you know she likes and asking her to join you...


I really don't see how that notion, it's validity aside, has anything to do with what I asked you. If you're going to mentally lump different posters together and treat them as one, a public message board really isn't a useful tool for you.


You can only make what YOU do different; you know that. And you've gotten piles of good advice on how to do exactly that, but you seem more interested in arguing with flamers than discussing the good advice people are offering.


How much influence you how much you currently perceive yourself to have are two different things. The kind of influence you have and the kind of influence you think you should have are two different things. People are trying to help you with this, but you're not helping them help you.


Yes, it does.


Good choice! Wait until you've got your Asbestos Underwear of Sense of Humor on. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> As you've noticed this is a flamey topic. There's still lots of good help here if you can ignore the non-helpful parts.


Another good choice.

reality checque,


I'm not understanding why you thought my response was hostile? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> yikes <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I tried give you a real comprehensive answer that took your point of view seriously, kind of line by line....and sometimes I admit that can seem confrontational....but I only intended to answer you as completely as possible.....sorry for the confusion. Unfortunately this medium is really kinda crummy about projecting "intent" or real feelings....it's always a challenge and frequent misunderstandings about intent occur quite a bit. Folks who know me here know I'm pretty even tempered, compassionate and generally fair after 13,000 posts LOL. Sorry you got that impression, the best I can do is assure you that I respect your opinion, don't think we disagree on many fronts at all, and that I feel zero hostility chere.

I also want to tell you a kinda funny story about my first post on MB (back in 2001) it was called something like "Attractive Spouse is a Bogus Need" LOL! I got hammered....hehehehehe....or at least I thought I did....hard to tell in this medium.

Thanks for posting.

Thanks for describing my situation precisely. My SO is a hyper-educated (3 degrees, 2 post-grad) stay-at-home. She goes to sleep when I come home and hands the 2 kids off to me. She's a size 22 wearing jeans too big for me. I've tried talking to her to no avail. I've offerred to watch the kids so she can exercise but she prefers to sleep. At some point, I'll have an EA and she'll be on here screaming about what a lout I am. I guess she's right because I promised for better or for worse. But I simply cannot perform with all those rolls of fat in front of me. It's nice to know that I'm not alone. It sucks to make 6-digit income and exercise regularly myself and this is where I end up. I'd be long gone w/o the kids in the picture. Thanks again.

Just a couple thoughts... I know a lot of you have posted similar thoughts on my thread. I keep hearing this common theme of "cook them healthy meals, exercise with them, only have healthy foods in the house."

From a dietitian-in-training's perspective, I think this is great advice. In fact, it's exactly what we're taught to tell clients when they're trying to manage weight.

But I know from working with my own husband that you can only hold their hand so much. I can bend over backwards to make healthy food available, motivate him to go to the gym, go with him and try to make it a fun experience, encourage him with support in every way possible, and if he doesn't want to do it, none of it will help.

I don't know if that really helps MH at all... I know its frustrating on my end to hear the same advice that I would give, and to know that I've been doing those things already, and they should work, but they aren't enough...

So I guess what I'm saying is, you can be your own little Richard Simmons or John Basedow, but if your spouse doesn't want it for him/herself, they're not going to do it. That's probably not the most encouraging thing to say, but maybe it will help MH to have his feelings validated by someone in a similar situation.