Starfish, I find it totally incredible that you say you have sympathy for men who's wives gain weight and/or ithhold sex and then they use porn rather than cheat.....are you implying men are wild animals with no conscience who must do one or the other...Why must it be use porn or cheat????

HOW CDARE YOU ASSUME THAT THIS IS THE CASE ..I NEITHER GAINED WEIGHT NOR WITHHELD SEX, YET MY H USED PORN TO COMPARE MY BODY
SAYING THAT MY BODY WAS NOT GOOD ENOUGH DUE TO STRETCH MARKS AND NATURAL .....READ NATURAL CHANGES THAT OCCUR AFTER 4 KIDS.......\\\

If you have sympathy for sleazy men thats your problem but dont dare imply that my h pornuse is in ANY WAY acceptable or my fault.......you clearly have no idea....

To others that post here I apologise for my last post but I must admit it made me FURIOUS...The complete ignorance of the degrading nature of porn is one thing....and if people choose to live their lives in denial that it degrade women then that is their choice...BUT when someone gets on here and offres 'reasons\ to make p[orn use ok...(IEBLAME THE WIFE ON NOT ENOUGH SEX OR WEIGHT GAIN) then frankly that makes me sick..\
For a person to truly understand the impact that porn can have they really must need to expoerience it firsthand and it makes me so angry that starfish (whos posts I have always read and respected in the past implies that
a) men use it because there wives either gain weight or withhold sex\
b) that men do it as an alternative to cheating(IMO IT IS CHEATING )
c) That it rarely creates problems...lol....thats odd because the websites I vist continuously have new cases like my own EVERY day, I also have 2 close friends who's marriages are experincing 'issues' over porn????

Sympathy, sympathy........I have NO sympathy for people who participate in acts that degredate ALLLLLL women and destroy many relationships.

Starfish here is a quick question that may help you see where Im coming from.
Let say SF was high on my list (which it is) and as my h ages his does not get as 'hard as when he was youger. (no med problem just natural results of aging. Say I start complaining about this and even if he seeks to satisfy me sexually in other ways nothing short of him having the rigid penis of a 20yr old will satisfy me so I complain continuously and look at porn with these men and compare him....Do you have sympathy for me in this case?????
Because this is EXACTLY what my h did.....complained about changes that occured due to age and pregnancy....The only difference between what I described and what happened in our case was the fact that the changes in me were created by bringing his children into the world.....

lmjs

WHOA! Stop, backup, deep breath.....calm? Try again.

I was afraid you were going to blow my monitor with all the steam coming off those posts.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I don't know you're sitch, but its obvious you're very resentful toward your H (or exH?) and why. But honey, that resentment needs to stay in HIS basket, you shouldn't put the pooh in Star's for voicing her thoughts or opinion.

JMHO
Tama

tama, It is true that my resentment over my h behaviour should remain with him however I also have a bit of resentment towards people (and yes there are quite a few) who imply a h use of porn is in any way his wifes fault... I think its disgusting that pple think there is any way a w can be blamed for a h who allows his m to be destroyed through participating in porn. Starfish clearly offered reasons why wives can 'lead h to this and Im sorry but that type of thinking p's me off. If a man is going to be a sleazy pig that is his choice and he and only he is responsible for it

Miserable,

Really sorry about your dog. I've had to put a good, young dog down once and it was a really sad time.

Glad you are taking a little break. When you decide to get back in it I hope you will find some real answers. In reading this thread I am not seeing you get alot of help. Lots of arguments and disagreements but not alot of real help about what you can do. Sadly when so much of that goes on the good advice gets lost in there.

Again I want to offer up the idea that you contact Dr. Harley himself. He's the man who created the concepts on this sight and he's a phone call away. He does understand and will have some good insight and suggestions for you.

Doesn't matter who's right or wrong or who's "good or "bad". Doens't matter what facts we can bend around or manipulate to make our points. What matters is you are unhappy with something in your M and you feel the way you do. I hope you will consider a call to Dr. Harley and get the help you need.

Symphony

MisHubby,

I spoke to my H last night about how to bring up the subject of healthy weight. He told me that if I got too heavy for him, that he would simply tell me that he doesn't find heavy women sexy. He continued, but I told him that if he ever has to say that to me, that he should stop there, because I would want to be alone to think about what I could do to get fit again. I did not take offense to his statement.

HOWEVER, I should spell out the fact that H and I have accepted Dr. Harley's MB concepts as fully as possible, and I know that he would only say something like that lovingly. I know that he wouldn't say it to hurt my feelings, and I know that he wouldn't say it unless it was hurting his attraction to me.

I believe that if you're going to be able to talk to your wife about her weight and her health and how it's affecting you, first you must embrace the MB concepts WITH YOUR WIFE. Learn POJA. Learn Radical Honesty. Start spending 15 hours a week together alone doing things that you both enjoy. Read HN/HN and Love Busters. Let her read them. Then, once you've applied the concepts for a while (maybe a few months) you can talk to her about how you feel about her weight. Don't tell her she needs to lose weight. Tell her instead that when she doesn't make an effort to exercise and eat healthy most of the time it makes withdrawals to your love bank. Tell her how sexy she looks when she gets all sweaty after a workout.

Use "I" statements. I feel less attracted to you as a heavy woman. I feel a drop in libido when you eat high fat foods. I feel disappointed when you turn down an opportunity to work out.

But wait until you have the rest of the MB concepts in place in your marriage, otherwise she'll just see you as nagging about the same things that you've been harping on her about forever.

I also feel that couples should schedule relationship talk time. That way, if one spouse has an issue, the other spouse can prepare for a serious talk, no distractions. If my H just blurted out something during a commercial of my favorite TV show, I would be taken aback and disappointed at his timing. If you want to start applying MB concepts in your M, tell your W that you need a few hours one Saturday afternoon to talk to her. That way you can arrange for a babysitter, make sure that there are no pressing chores, that you can have some undivided attention. It's important that neither of you are thinking of something else that you should be doing while discussing the marriage.

JMHO.
Cat

Star*fish & Cat_A are right on the mark. Talk to your wife about your feelings. I too think you have a legitimate complaint.

But the question to ask...what if you tell her (in the way that others here have suggested) about what your feelings are regarding this subject .....and she refuses to do anything about it?
If she doesnt want to do anything about it then marriage counseling is probably the next step.
But what if she still refuses to work on the marriage then what to do?

I keep trying to ask this question: WHAT IF HIS WIFE NEVER LOSES THE WEIGHT? Can he accept her the way she is RIGHT NOW?

He can't change her. He can only change himself.

What can this man do to CHANGE HIMSELF and become a confident, caring and content H?

Every time I've asked this, it's ignored and the discussion returns to how he can ask her to lose weight. What if she never does?

MBFW,

Thanks for the input. It sent me on a frenzy of internet research.

But in this case, I don't think it will pan out. We've changed his diet several times over the last four years, and at one point he was on a lamb and rice formula that should have been pretty much gluten-free, for about 1 1/2 years.

Later we switched him to IAMS Weight Control feed (has barley, so it does have gluten) because with the drugs he was both lethergic AND hungry all the time.

The best he's ever done was 24 days between seizures, at least ones that we knew about. And we're talking grand mal here, full-out tonic/clonic episodes, followed by 45 minutes of twitching, then 20 minutes of blindness, coupled with a restless desire to wander. The seizures seem to want to occur on a roughly eight or nine day cycle, or at least they used to. As we've tried elevating the dosages of his medication, the patterns have changed. Now most of the seizures are short, non-violent ones, with little to no post-ictal symptoms, and he will have several a day. But even now, he still has the occasional grand-mal doozy. Like last night, right after dinner.

After four years, as sad as it is, this is the right thing to do. Just hurts, is all.

MH

P.S. A special "thank you" to all who've expressed their sympathy .....

Multiple personality disorder? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> You are kidding, right?

It's not MPD, but beer-goggles!

I have no idea how much experience you have with dating, but both men and women sometimes resort to this kind of excuse... "Well, it was not me...it was my evil twin that resides in my body" You must be only guy who actually believes that when a woman turned him down that she really does have a MPD.

Reality,

I think that I danced around your questions in an earlier post, I will be more direct.

You ask: "I keep trying to ask this question: WHAT IF HIS WIFE NEVER LOSES THE WEIGHT? Can he accept her the way she is RIGHT NOW? "

I think the answer is an resounding NO. He doesn't want to remain married to a fat woman . . . so I don't see him just sucking it up and becoming resigned to his fate.

"He can't change her. He can only change himself."

This is somewhat true. He can't make her lose weight, He can certainly express his displeasure with the situation. He can be honest with her at let her know that this is a boundary issue for him . . . that he will not remain married to an obese woman. She has all the control after that. She can lose the marriage or lose the weight . . . it is her choice.

"Every time I've asked this, it's ignored and the discussion returns to how he can ask her to lose weight. What if she never does?"

Well I think the focus of the conversation turns to her losing weight because it appears that the weight, and his views on what he finds attractive are the issues here.

If you were advising someone that was married to an alcoholic what would you focus on? Would you tell her to just accept the way he is or would you try to help her find some help so that her husband can free himself from that terrible addiction?

I don't think many would tell her to just accept it.

In this case, the problem is that the wife is obese. I think that is why attention is payed to him finding a way to help her return to a healthy weight.

MiseableHubby, if you have told your wife in a honest & loving way about your feelings....then she will have to respond.
Either she will understand your feelings & try to work on the marriage...OR she will choose not to. Either way it is a choice on her part.
The ball is then in your court. If she wants to work on it, then you both have some hard work ahead. If she doesnt want to work on it, then you have two choices from there. Either you can live with the situation or you can leave. Both outcomes are essentially sad in their own way.



I'm in a similar situation as you are, but not married yet. It is an issue for me & I have talked with my SO about it several times. Things look promising, but it may be too late.

Then it becomes the old case of "stay together for the kid and try to make the best of it". Wouldn't be the first time in history that it came down to that ...

"Try to make the best of it" .... hmmm ... I'd probably look into an anti-depressant, and I'd definitely want one with "sexual side effects". That would probably help. I've read that Amitriptyline (Elavil) has also been found to help with chronic lower back pain, so what the heck ... I could kill *three* birds with one stone!

There is indeed such a thing as "reactive depression", which simply means you're depressed because you've got something to be depressed about, and I've certainly been flirting with that on and off throughout the last few years.

Star gave a good perspective. I also have a H with a high AS need. I have been around this site for awhile and understood the MB principles. So when my H approached me with the statement that I didn't do it for him anymore (due to my weight gain and resulting stretch marks after our second child) the blow wasn't as hard as it might have been had I not realized his radical honesty. It still took me a month to change my view from "poor me, my H thinks I'm ugly" to "it's time to start showing my H how much I love him by meeting this EN". It only took barely a week into my efforts for my DH to respond (in which he started to meet my top EN's, even though he had never officially found out what they were).

MH- your AS need is as valid as any other on the list. My best advice I can give is to reiterate another poster's suggestion: start fulfilling her needs in spades the best you can and remove the LB's. Once the current dynamics in the relationship improve, only then will you be effective in your radical honesty. It will take time. You obviously care deeply for the state of your marriage and the love of your wife- your being here already demonstrates that.

Before I started my efforts in meeting my H's AS need- I was in your situation where my top two EN's were not being met. I could've easily said "No way- I'm not doing anything until he starts meeting my EN's first!" If I had done that, I'd probably be completely withdrawn from my marriage and miserable. But I decided to go FIRST. You're the one here asking for help- so go first!!!

AG,

Nope. It was real alright. Both her, and her roomate Lisa. Later had the dubious pleasure of visiting Anne in a special psych ward in DC after a particularly bad episode.

If I hadn't experienced it myself, I wouldn't have believed it either, so I forgive you for the little dig.

Oh, and I wasn't turned down --- it was *during* the dates that the truth came out! Just totally un-freakin' believeable ... you had to be there.

MH <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for responding, CN.


Actually, this is what Al-Anon is all about, if I understand correctly. It isn't about changing the other person, but changing yourself. If the other person changes, it's a bonus.

Of course we want our loved ones to be healthy and emotionally well. I doubt anyone wants to live with an alcoholic or other addict.

But if there is actually a bottom line here, it's that she may never change and he has to decide if he will stay married miserably, or stay married and find a way to be content in spite of her size.

Of course, he could divorce her.

Let me ask this question. If MH's wife refused to shave her armpits and he really found that disguisting, would anyone suggest divorce? That would be something she has complete control over, and is not an addiction or emotional issue. What would people say to him then?

The armpit question - I believe it would qualify as an annoying habit, which is a love buster. Enough love busters and a spouse will go into withdrawal. I certainly wouldn't suggest divorce over a hair issue, but it could lead to that if they cannot POJA a solution (she shaves once a week instead of everyday, she doesn't shave but always wears a t-shirt, etc.).

Not meeting an EN is a big love buster and I'm surprised that it took so long for MisHubby to get to where he is.

MisHubby - did you read my earlier post about following MB principles?

"Let me ask this question. If MH's wife refused to shave her armpits and he really found that disguisting, would anyone suggest divorce? That would be something she has complete control over, and is not an addiction or emotional issue. What would people say to him then?"

It certainly is a LB - annoying habit. If his 'love bank' is depleted enough.....then D is a possibility. We can talk about what ifs all day long...but love is not unconditional. Bottom line, if your love bank is depleted faster than it is beinf filled...a D is inevitable.

"Let me ask this question. If MH's wife refused to shave her armpits and he really found that disguisting, would anyone suggest divorce? That would be something she has complete control over, and is not an addiction or emotional issue. What would people say to him then?"

I guess it would matter how much it bothers him. It would depend if it was a boundary issue for him. The line is different for each person. I don't see this as the same thing as obesity. Obesity can kill you. It affects most aspects of life. If the obesity is caused by lifestyle choices and not a medical condition it sets a horrible example for minor children living in the home. It may teach them an unhealthy relationship with food. It may teach them that exercise just isn't important.

I wouldn't want to have sex with an obese woman. If I had kids with her would I divorce? Probably not. I certainly wouldn't be planning romantic trips to the beach though. I would be married in name only, but there are worse things in life that a unfulfilling sham of a marriage.

I get the feeling that you see his need for an attractive spouse that isn't obese as somehow invalid. Is that true? You are comparing obesity to armpit hair . . .

I don't know what Al-Anon is about. Frankly I wouldn't stay married to an addict so I have no use for such groups that teach you coping skills to remain in such a devestation relationship. I don't see how it is possible to have a marriage, except in name only, where on person is using that much. It isn't that I think that people are disposable, but I firmly believe that I can chose what behaviors are alright in my life. I would remove my children from that situation asap. I think that even Harley says that marriage issues cannot be addressed as long as an adict is using.