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GG- Good post, thank you. you make a good point, about not "buddying" with XH. We do not have a buddy relationship at this point anyway,but I was starting to wonder if I should call him and come up with a joint plan with him in this situation. However, I think you are right. he clearly has shown that a joint plan will not work. He will just do what pleases him at the moment. he is not going to support me, so there is no sense in trying to enter into a partnership where I am the only one keeping up my side.
I finally talked to YS last night. he was angry and combative. Certainly not normal for him. this is my kind, sensitive child. I could tell that he was trying to be very grown up and his anger was trying to hide his fear. it was like dealing with a WS. He wanted me to leave the house unlocked today so he could come in and take some more clothes. I told him no. I said that I understand his desire to spend more time with his Dad, and he was welcome to have more clothes over there, but he would have to come over while I was home, and talk to me. he got mad and hung up. he called back and said that he would talk to me, but only with a counselor present. Said that he had some very important things to discuss and that he wanted a professional in the room while he was talking. he has a counselor he used to see a couple of years ago, and asked me to make an appointment for both of us to see her. I told him that I would see what I could do. I reminded him that I am his Mom, that we are family, and he would need to talk to all of us. me, his brother, and his step Dad. He got mad and said "he is not my Dad, he is just my Step Dad" I am sure that in his current state of mind he is somehow turning all of this into an issue with his step dad, but I have full confidence that my H has been good to YS. they have become close and share many interests. I suspect that YS is actually feeling sorry for his real father, feels bad that he has become close to his step dad, and he is acting out now. he is the type of boy who would feel sorry for his father, even though he knows his father has made some bad choices.
so today I am trying to get ahold of a Christian counselor who has been recommended to me. I have left a message, and I am waiting.
I continue to pray for all of us. my new H is feeling very bad right now, worried that some how he has done something to upset YS. I keep assuring him that he has been a good step dad, and that we will all get through this. I truly believe that God can use this situation to draw us all closer together, but we all feel pretty bad right now.
Married 18 years D Day June 25, 2003 Divorced December 17, 2003
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faith
i ran off to live with my dad also when i was in 12th grade. i wanted to live with him from the time he left but hewas living with OW. i moved in HIS house when i was older but he still spent every night at OW house.
I'm sorry your son is so confused right now and your family is being hurtstill by your H poor choices.
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Eav - just curious - Why did you want to live with your Dad???
Married 18 years D Day June 25, 2003 Divorced December 17, 2003
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wo,
your young son is about to learn one of the most valuable lessons in his young life. as a parent and previously a kid yourself you should view these as some of the things that all kids have to learn. sit back and enjoy being a parent, all will be well in the end.
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WOF -
I agree with everything you say and your plan to contact the counselor.
I might suggest that at this point you respect the fact that your H, no many how wonderful he may be, is in fact not "Dad".
Perhaps YS feels that new H is trying to replace (not supplement) his real dad? (Just a thought).
Georgia
Last edited by Formerly G.G.; 01/05/06 08:04 AM.
Formerly G.G. and Jeb Me: BS 50 She: xW 50 Jeb: Mini Schnauzer Married: 29 yrs Children: MM25, MM23 Plan B - 12/06/04 Divorced - 11/17/05
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Honestly, I think it is possible that YS felt himself getting too close to my H. the two of them were getting along well. My new H has not been the one to discipline him, I have. So YS and H were becoming buddies, with Mom as the occasional "bad cop". My H has always been very aware that he is not the "Dad".
YS rarely saw his Dad before, and I think that YS may have started to feel like his Dad was slipping away.
update - last night YS stopped by to get some more clothes. he clearly had a chip on his shoulder when he walked into the house. He wanted to rush upstairs to get the clothes and then leave. I called him back down to talk a little, and he said "Can't talk now, I have to hurry, I am on my way to youth group" (he went to youth group at our old church from 3 years ago - I was glad that he at least went somewhere)
I said "you will take a minute to visit. I know you are hurting, I know you feel bad, but you have to face your problems. I am your Mom, I have always been there for you, I always will be, but you can not just dump your whole family to start some new life as if we don't even matter". he looked shocked by that. I said "YS, you can not just dump us. we love you. you have turned this whole house upside down. How would you feel right now if I had just walked out without a word? I can not do that to you, and you can not do that to me. and you have not even spoken to your brother, that is just not right"
that seemed to have some efect on him. he said again that he will not talk to me without a counslor, but this time I was feeling like he was just trying to bully me, and make demands. He says that he will not even speak to me without a counselor present. I told him that he is not going to boss me around, that he is not going to mkae demands, that I am still the Mom, still the boss, I have always treated him fairly, I have alwyas supported him, and there was no reason why he couldn't talk to me now. that if he wanted counseling, that was fine, but that didn't mean the only way he was going to talk was through a counselor.
He says he wants the counselor to hear both sides of the story and give her opinion about our situation. I said "YS, I do not have a side in this. I don't even know what the issue is, so how can I give her my side of the story?"
then he finished getting his clothes, and said he had to go. I let him go, and told him that we would continue our conversation another day.
He seemed to have lost the chip on his shoulder as he was leaving.
I think that being in the house last night, and seeing that we were not angry with him, that we were still reaching out to him, and wanted to help him had an impact on him.
I would imagine he had a few more things to think about as he lay on his air mattress in his step brothers room at his Dads last night.
I truly feel that God is working in this young man right now.
thank you all for your posts.
Married 18 years D Day June 25, 2003 Divorced December 17, 2003
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womanoffaith, Brava! You handled the visit like a parent, like a grownup! You a class act, wof. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Good job, WOF!!!
He'll be back.
Formerly G.G. and Jeb Me: BS 50 She: xW 50 Jeb: Mini Schnauzer Married: 29 yrs Children: MM25, MM23 Plan B - 12/06/04 Divorced - 11/17/05
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feeling a little low today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> It has been 2 weeks today since YS moved in with his Dad. I knew when this first started that it would take some time. In my mind I figured it would be something like a month or two.
But going two weeks without having my son around is really hard on me! Sitting here at my desk, feeling like crying.
an update - On Sunday our pastor offered to talk to him. So I called YS on Monday and suggested that he could talk to the Pastor (they have a good relationship) and YS said "Ok, tell him to call my cell phone" My H called the pastor and asked him to call YS. The other night he called him, and then called us to give a report.
He said that he did not get any big information out of YS, but he was sruprised to hear YS say that he doesn't want to talk to me because "he doesn't trust Mom" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I am not sure what that means - and pastor didn't know either. YS was talking about "having a counselor present when he talks to Mom so that Mom does not judge him". Pastor pushed a little, and said that he doesn't get the impression that YS has some sort of big seret he is hiding, he just doesn't want to talk to me alone. I honestly do not understand this. I have always been very open with my boys. I bring up subjects like girlfriends, and school, drinking, drugs, etc. I ask open questions, and don't act surprised when they talk about some of the things that are happening at their school. I am guessing that perhpas YS is embarassed and or feels guilty about leaving like he did, and feels uncomfortable being confronted one on one about it.
One thing the pastor shared with us - he said that not much came out in his conversation, but towards the end of the call YS said "it is my parents job to make me happy" and Pastor responded with "No. it is NOT their job to make you happy. it is their job to raise you, and to teach you, and that is not always going to be easy, and you will not always be happy. No one is going to be happy all the time"
YS continues to remind me of his father, post D day. This comment, that it is my job to make him happy. Yikes. where did he get that idea? (WxH actaully said that OW made him 'happier than he has ever been before') Also - YS has begun to re-write history. He was very active in our church, and truly enjoyed it. He chose to particpate in many activites, and we never pushed him. He insisted on going to both sunday services to help with the sound, even though I offered to take him to only the later service. But now he tells me, and anyone else who will listen, that he never wanted to be that invloved at church, that he doesn't even like this church, that he wishes he could go to his old church instead.
He also made a comment, the first time I talked to him after he left, that he wanted me to just let him go and start his new life. Doesn't that sound like the typical WS? But this is my son! How can my little boy walk away from me so easy??? I keep thinking of the special things I did for him, and with him.
I am sending a text message every day. Just saying "I love you, have a good day" he doesn't respond to me.
Mostly, I feel like I am doing all the right things. I am letting him have his space - letting him experience his own choices and consequences. But occasionally I have panic moments where I worry that I am not doing anything. When that happens I pray for guidance.
any thoughts?? suggestions??
Married 18 years D Day June 25, 2003 Divorced December 17, 2003
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This is probably no consolation but I will share this with you just in case.
My YS went through a major personality change in early adolescence. I wanted to attribute this to our marital difficulties. However, it seems that he continues to have animosity towards me. We were extremely close before then so maybe it's their need to pull away as adolescents do. I'm thinking that maybe the closer they are to their mothers, the more they need to pull away in order to gain their identity.
My YS was my "sweetest" boy and my older son was more surly. Now it is the opposite...
Hang in there..
Last edited by mimi1254; 01/13/06 02:55 PM.
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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WOF - I heard once (Dobson, I think) that the only job of a parent is to prepare our kids to live without us. It starts the day they are born.
Makes sense to me....
Formerly G.G. and Jeb Me: BS 50 She: xW 50 Jeb: Mini Schnauzer Married: 29 yrs Children: MM25, MM23 Plan B - 12/06/04 Divorced - 11/17/05
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Dear WOF,
If you'd like some hints into his personality I'd be happy to try and help you find his Enneagram type and yours too. That might be a clue as to the dynamics between the two of you from both your perspective and his. You sound a lot like me actually. I have a son who did this push/pull thing with me too...also my youngest. He never moved out or anything (no split in the marriage), but he would get so angry with me at times for no apparent reason. Now that I understand his personality type (and so does he...he's 22) we can see what happened during those times.
Let me know. I'll check back a couple of times. I'm usually over on the "In Recovery" board, but it's slow over there so I was lurking here.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Stillwed
Me-BS age 48 Enneagram type 1w2
H-FWS age 49 Enneagram type 4w3
Married 30 years
3 grown kids
5 grandkids!
D-day 1: 11/86 1 affair
D-day 2: 1/4/03 H revealed 8 more affairs
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Mimi - Thank you for your comments, they are helpful. it is interesting...you mention that you thought your YS's personality changes were likely associated with your seperation from FwH. I have been concerned that my YS is reacting to his postion in a "step" or "blended" family. I have been reading books about step families, and talking to other step parents, and gettingadvice from my pastor, and searching for counselors who speicalize in blended failies, you name it. In reality your YS and mine are likely going through some "normal" adolescent issues, but as Moms we look for a cause, something to blame, something we can work on and hopefully fix.
I know,in my heart, that I have been a good mom. I have been his rock. And eventually, one day, he will come back to that. It is just so hard right now. I see people on TV who talk about how important their Mom is, and I think "why doesn't my son feel that way?" I know, deep down, he does feel that way.
GG- Good point. Thank you.
Stillwed- I don't know a lot about Enneagram types, but I suppose it is worth a try.
Married 18 years D Day June 25, 2003 Divorced December 17, 2003
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Interesting...
MY YOUNG SON AND I HAVE THE SAME PERSONALITY TYPE....INFJ...
Maybe TOO CLOSE..
He has said in the past that he feels my same feelings....
Interesting....
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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it is interesting. I am sitting here thinking that my YS and I are not really similar personality types, but I am going to give it further thought this weekend. Older son looks exactly like me. Brown hair, dark brown eyes. so I have always had the impression that we are similar. Also, OS and I have a smiliar sense of humor.
YS is definately the more sensitive type. He also tends to be a day dreamer (which I was too - when I was young) He used to play a lot of make believe when he was younger. One disturbing trend that I see him falling into - he feels the need to always have a 'girlfriend'. So far his girlfriend relationships have been limited to talking on the phone for hours. No actual "dating". But he goes from one "girlfriend" to the next. this summer he spent many hours on the phone with a girl from church. They really got along well, and he made comments like "she looks like an angel to me". He called her sweetheart when he talked to her. The only time they actually saw each other was in church on Sundays and Wednesdays. At one point, towards the end of August, I realized that I had not heard her call him for several days. I asked him if she was on vacation. He said no, she just wasn't calling him anymore. She wasn't returning any of his calls. Finally, he told me that he talked to her and said "if you don't have time for me, then I guess we need to break up" and her answer was "ok." he seemed a little down about that, but I asked him several times if he was ok and he always said "I am fine Mom, it really doesn't bother me, I decided that she wasn't the one for me after all"
I suspect that this "break up" was one of the contributing factors to his moving to his Dads. he didn't talk about it - but even OS commented that he thinks his brother is uspet about a girl - and most likely it is the gril he was involved with this summer. OS said "I think that he is still upset about her and trying to change his whole life to forget about her. But that doesn't make sense, because at least when he lives here with us, and goes to church with us, he can see her every sunday at church". My thought was "hmm...perhaps he doesn't like seeing her at church any longer"
Anway,I don't think this is THE problem, but perhaps a part of it.
you guys are all so great. Thank you for listening.
Married 18 years D Day June 25, 2003 Divorced December 17, 2003
Newly married to a wonderful man!
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I really feel for you and I will keep you in my prayers. My mom is 50, I am in my 20's, and she is going through a very similar situation with my sister. It is called "disloyal."
My sister always talked about how my dad was a jerk, and hated going over there, but recently, most likely because he is giving her money for college, she has been spending a lot of time over there. On my moms 50th birthday weekend, instead of following through with plans of going to the beach with my mom, my older sister went to my dads! that hurt my mom soooo much...especially since my mom hates my dad still (after 6 years of divorce). Soooo..my mom cried the whole weekend, her 50th bday was ruined, and I felt horribly for her and hated my sister too. I thought it was crewl espcailly since my mom supported us for 6 years while my dad moved on with his life and had a grand old time. my mom also helped my sister with college, and my dad did not. anyway, it is a very similar situation. The outcome is that they talked, and they are on ok terms....but the thing is all of this that is very clear, is that your son is being disloyal, he is being materialistic, and he is being plain old disrespectful to you. Regardless of whether or not he moves back in with you, you need to tell him what he is doing to you. Since you are his mother and teach him right from wrong, you need to tell him "son, when you did this, it made me feel like this. you were being ___ ___ and ___ and that is NOT how i raised you. You should be ashamed of yourself and as a man of God you should know better and not fall for materialism or bribes. etc etc etc tell him what you feel. he is old enough. maybe put it in an email (thats what my mom did) that way you can get all your thoughts out without him interupting you, discrediting you, or being even more disrespectful.
he is defintely wrong in this, and you need to make sure he knows that. if it is done effectively, his consiousness will kick in, and he will come back to you, because that is where is heart and loyalty is and has been for the past few years. Even though he loves his dad, and spends some time with him, you are no doubt the rock of the family. I know exactly what your situation is because you are probably a lot like my mom.
If so and if I am on the right track, I think you are a wonderful wonderful woman and you should treat yourself to a spa treatment or something. I think you are such a strong mom and to raise 2 boys by yourself, esentially, deserves a ton of recognition.
if he never comes back, dont take it personally. he is young. when he is 25 or 30 he will appologize.
you keep doing the right thing and being the great mom, believer, and wife that you are!!
good luck to you. my heart goes out to you. ill be praying for you. it must be really painful. I heard my moms tears (she lives far away) and felt so so bad for her.
your son loves you, dont forget. he is just young and thinks a cell phone is going to solve his problems. trust me, pretty soon he will hate how dad doesnt make him dinner and how dad doesnt give him a shoulder to cry on and how dad doesnt care about his grades etc etc etc (i dont know if his is happening, but thats how it was with my dad!)
about the church thing.....maybe you can have the pastor at your church give him a call on his new cell phone if he doesnt show up to the church service for a week or 2. again, when he is ready to believe, he will, but he needs to get some things out of his system first. just dont take it personally. you are wonderful.
sorry for the redundance, length, and randomness. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
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Here is the test, WOF! It's a very easy test. Simply read the paragraphs and see which one fits best. If you need to pick from a couple I can hopefully help you figure out which one is yours/his. I'll check back! Stillwed Quoted from The Essential Enneagram by David Daniels and Virginia Price:
A) “I approach things in an all-or-nothing way, especially issues that matter to me. I place a lot of value on being strong, honest, and dependable. What you see is what you get. I don't trust others until they have proven themselves to be reliable. I like people to be direct with me, and I know what someone is being devious, lying, or trying to manipulate me. I have a hard time tolerating weakness in people, unless I understand the reason for their weakness or I see that they're trying to do something about it. I also have hard time following orders or direction if I do not respect or agree with the person in authority. I am much better at taking charge myself. I find it difficult to display my feelings when I am angry. I am always ready to stick up for my friends or loved ones, especially if I think they are being treated unjustly. I may not win every battle with others, but they'll know I've been there.”
B) “I have high internal standards for correctness, and I expect myself to live up to those standards. It's easy for me to see what's wrong with the things as they are and to see how they could be improved. I may come across to some people as overly critical or demanding perfection, but it's hard for me to ignore or accept things that are not done the right way. I prided myself on the fact that if I'm responsible for doing something, you can be sure I'll do it right. I sometimes have feelings of resentment when people don't try to do things properly or when people act irresponsibly or unfairly, although I usually try not to show it to them openly. For me, it is usually work before pleasure, and I suppress my desires as necessary to get the work done.”
C) “I seem to be able to see all points of view pretty easily. I may even appear indecisive at times because I can see advantages and disadvantages on all sides. The ability to see all sides makes me good at helping people resolve their differences. This same ability can sometimes lead me to be more aware of other people's positions, agendas, and personal priorities than of my own. It is not unusual for me to become distracted and then to get off task on the important things I'm trying to do. When that happens, my attention is often diverted to unimportant trivial tasks. I have a hard time knowing what is really important to me, and I avoid conflict by going along with what others want. People tend to consider me to be easygoing, pleasing and agreeable. It takes a lot to get me to the point of showing my anger directly at someone. I like life to be comfortable, harmonious, and others to be accepting of me.”
D) “I am sensitive to other people's feelings. I can see what they need, even when I don't know them. Sometimes it's frustrating to be so aware of people's needs, especially their pain or unhappiness, because I'm not able to do as much for them as I'd like to. It's easy for me to give of myself. I sometimes wish I were better at saying no, because I end up putting more energy into caring for others than into taking care of myself. It hurts my feelings if people think I'm trying to manipulate them or control them when all I'm trying to do is understand and help them. I like to be seen as a warmhearted and good person, but when I'm not taken into account or appreciated I ca become very emotional or even demanding. Good relationships mean a great deal to me, and I'm willing to work hard to make them happen.”
E)” Being the best at what I do is a strong motivator for me, and I have received a lot of recognition over the years for my accomplishments. I get a lot done and am successful in almost everything I take on. I identify strongly with what I do, because to a large degree I think your value is based on what you accomplish and the recognition you get for it. I always have more to do than will fit into the time available, so I often set aside feelings and self-reflection in order to get things done. Because there's always something to do, I find it hard to just sit and do nothing. I get impatient with people who don't use my time well. Sometimes I would rather just take over a project someone is completing too slowly. I like to feel and appear "on top" of any situation. While I like to compete, I am also a good team player.”
F) “I would characterize myself as a quiet, analytical person who needs more time alone than most people do. I usually prefer to observe what is going on rather than be involved in the middle of it. I don't like people to place too many demands on me or to expect me to know and report what I am feeling. I'm able to get in touch with my feelings better when alone than with others, and I often enjoy experiences I've had more when reliving them than when actually going through them. I'm almost never bored when alone, because I have an active mental life. It is important for me to protect my time and energy and hence, to live a simple, uncomplicated life and be as self-sufficient as possible.”
G) “I have a vivid imagination, especially when it comes to what might be threatening to safety and security. I can usually spot what could be dangerous or hurtful and my experience as much fear as if it were really happening. I either always avoid danger or always challenge it head-on. My imagination also leads to my ingenuity and a good, if somewhat offbeat, sense of humor. I would like for life to be more certain, but in general I seem to doubt the people and things around me. I can usually see the shortcomings in the view someone is putting forward. I suppose that, as a consequence, some people may consider me to be very astute. I tend to be suspicious of authority and am not particularly comfortable being seen as the authority. Because I can see what is wrong with the generally held view of things, I tend to identify with underdog causes. Once I have committed myself to a person or cause, I am very loyal to it.”
H) “I am an optimistic person who enjoys coming up with new and interesting things to do. I have a very active mind that quickly moves back and forth between different ideas. I like to get a global picture of how all these ideas fit together, and I get excited when I can connect concepts that initially don't appear to be related. I like to work on things that interest me, and I have a lot of energy to devote to them. I have a hard time sticking with unrewarding and repetitive tasks. I like to be in on the beginning of a project, during the planning phase, when there may be many interesting options to consider. when I have exhausted my interest in something, it is difficult for me to stay with it, because I want to move on to the next thing that has captured my interest. If something gets me down, I prefer to shift my attention to more pleasant ideas. I believe people are entitled to an enjoyable life.”
I) “I am a sensitive person with intense feelings. I often feel misunderstood and lonely, because I feel different from everyone else. My behavior can appear like drama to others, and I have been criticized for being overly sensitive and overamplifying my feelings. What is really going on inside is my longing for both emotional connection and a deeply felt experience of relationship. I have difficulty fully appreciating present relationships because of my tendency to want what I can't have and to disdain what I do have. The search for emotional connection has been with me all of my life, and the absence of emotional connection has led to melancholy and depression. I sometimes wonder why other people seem to have more than I do--better relationships and happier lives. I have a refined sense of aesthetics, and I experience a rich world of emotions and meaning.”
Me-BS age 48 Enneagram type 1w2
H-FWS age 49 Enneagram type 4w3
Married 30 years
3 grown kids
5 grandkids!
D-day 1: 11/86 1 affair
D-day 2: 1/4/03 H revealed 8 more affairs
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So, how's it going with your son, WOF? I hope you got to spend some time with him this weekend.
Still
Me-BS age 48 Enneagram type 1w2
H-FWS age 49 Enneagram type 4w3
Married 30 years
3 grown kids
5 grandkids!
D-day 1: 11/86 1 affair
D-day 2: 1/4/03 H revealed 8 more affairs
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STILL:
I took the test and I am a 2. So I would have answered D in the info. above. Correct?
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,886
Member
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Member
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,886 |
That's right, Mimi. Do you know what your wing is? It'll be one of the numbers next to yours...so either One or Three. I wonder if you pick your second choice from the paragraphs if we might be able to tell. Sometimes it works out that way.
Stillwed
Me-BS age 48 Enneagram type 1w2
H-FWS age 49 Enneagram type 4w3
Married 30 years
3 grown kids
5 grandkids!
D-day 1: 11/86 1 affair
D-day 2: 1/4/03 H revealed 8 more affairs
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