Any advice is welcome--I feel as if my marriage is hanging by a thread and I don't know what to do.

I found about my husband's affair on November 17th. A family member of the OW's husband called and told me about it--I called the OW's husband and heard from him what he knew, and I have felt dead inside ever since. It had been going on for about a year (around Sep/Oct 2004-Oct 2005) and, while I knew something was eating at him, I was shocked to hear the truth. We have been married for 8 years and have two beautiful children, and as I sit here I still cannot believe that he has done this.

When I confronted him, he said that it all started with some harmless flirtation at the local coffee shop he used to frequent. A group of his friends were joking about phone sex with a big-breasted waitress (how I hate her), and he tossed out his number as a joke. She took him up on it and started sending him lewd phone messages. This flirtation went on for a few months, before escalating into an affiar. He told me he broke it off himself because he loved me and the girls and wants to have another chance to be a good husband and father. I want my marriage to work. I want what is best for my children, and what is best for me, and I am hopeful that keeping my family together is truly the best thing for all of us.

So ever since I have been trying to piece together how my marriage became so broken. I filled out a copy of the "Emotional Needs Questionaire" but he won't fill his out. He says he screwed up everything, and he doesn't know what to write. I pointed out that, if I don't understand why he was unhappy in the first place, how do I know what to change? His reply was that he was happy, I didn't do anything, and that I should just be myself. No matter how many times or ways I ask the question "why" he just says there was no reason that he did it--it was just a terribly stupid mistake, and that it will never happen again. But this brings me little comfort. And why should it? How can the man I married have done such a devestating thing to me and his children for no reason?

So I am left to piece together the why's for myself, and this is what I've come up with:

Sex: We had our second child in April of 2004 and his affair started about 5-6 mo after that. I cannot help but to think there is some sort of connection there. Our sex life was down when I was pregnant, and after the baby was born we didn't have any for a while (I was healing from a C-section, plus the hormonal changes with nursing make sex very uncomfortable for me.) He tried to initiate sex once after the baby came, but I asked if we could wait a few more months so I could finish up nursing. He said okay and didn't seem upset or distraught about it. But once the baby was about 5 mo old and I weaned her, my husband was no longer interested. Piecing things together--it appears that this is when the affair started. I tried repeatedly to initiate things with him, but he was never in the mood. I got lots of excuses, but never considered that he was cheating. The crazy thing is that we were never a high-sex couple, even before the baby. He would initiate sex once every few weeks, and I never turned him down. He never had any complaints, and neither did I. We even talked about it several times, when we would hear about how frequently some other couples had sex, and he would just laugh and tell me he was perfectly satisfied, and not to worry about it.

Companionship: One other thing I can think might have been lacking was the one-on-one time spent together after the kids came. Of course there were changes to our relationship. When I got home from work (6pm) until about 7:30-8:00pm, I was definately focused on the children (dinner, bath, bedtime, etc.) and maybe he felt left out. (Although he never complained, and he was always welcome to help me with the kids if he wanted to.)

While his affair was onging, the only complaint he EVER made was in response to the questions I put to him about why he was gone so much. He told me hanging around the house was "boring." Another time when I was critical of the amount of time he spent with his friends (at least I thought he was with friends), he said I was a "fun-hater." So now I have asked him if this was the reason for the affair--that he was dissatisfied with his family responsibilties, boring wife, and boring kids. He paused and gave me a contemplative, "maybe." But still not a straight answer about why he has done this.

To his credit, he has made a lot of efforts to mend things. He has made a better (although not perfect) accounting of his time. He planned some family outings, and some date nights for us. He turned over the secret cell phone he had been using to communicate with the OW, and I smashed it to bits (felt nice). His mood has totally changed--during the affair he was withdrawn and seemed depressed much of the time--now is seems his old self. So I feel reasonably sure that he really has cut off all contact with the OW, and that we can be in recovery mode. But I torture myself, whenever he is gone for some reason other than work, I wonder if he is with her and if the marriage I had cherished is over.

The thing that nags at me, and makes me wonder if I can ever forgive him, is the WHY. Evan now, I cannot point to a single problem before the affair that should have made me think my marriage was in trouble. How can I heal this hurt inside me if he cannot even explain why he did it? It seems he just wants to go on as if nothing has happened, and return to the way things used to be. If only it were that easy.

Please help--anyone who has faced this before.

CSJ
Married 1997
Two kids, ages 4 and 20 mo

(((csj)))

I don't have any advice. I'm still raw myself. I'm sure you can find the help you need here though.

There are good parts to your story. H is home with you and your family.

Welcome to marriagebuilders. I've been looking for a quote for you from Frank Pittman (who wrote "Private Lies"), but I can't find it. I'll look some more.

But in answer to your questions, sometimes affairs happen in very good marriages. It often has nothing to do with sex, but more about admiration, adventure, etc.

It sounds like your husband is doing all of the right things. So that is a good start.

I would let him know that you are not going to be satisfied with a marriage the way it was, but want a much better marriage. Ask for some input from him on how that could happen. Don't let him wiggle out by saying he doesn't know.

Also the Harley's suggest 15 hours a week doing fun things together. I would get busy on that.

Stick around and read all of the information here. I'm glad you have found us.

CSJ,
Your husband sounds a lot like mine. He never blamed me, said it was a stupid mistake and would not happen again.

I, like you, tried to figure out why. What needs was I not meeting? I just about drove myself nuts trying to figure it out.

I finally realized that we had to work on the whole relationship, not just what I thought was the cause.

We try to do the 15 hours a week plus. We also talked about the emotional needs and we try to meet those. We even ask one another how we are doing.

He said there was nothing I needed to change, but like you, I knew there were things I could do better. Maybe if you approach it in a way that says, I want us to be better than we were before, so I need to know what you like about the way I meet your needs and what I can do better.

Things are better for us now than they have been in years. It really can happen.

I'm not saying it is an easy road. There are lots of bumps, but I believe the destination is worth the journey.

blessings

CSJ,

None of us really ever hears a definitive "why". Read here in this forum about fog talk and I bet you have heard all the same excuses posted here a hundred times before. Don't try and figure it out it will only drain you and depress you more than you already are. Be joyful in that he is there with you and trying. Paradise and I don't have that opportunity. Make this chance count, use every second to build on the last and don't give up.

If you feel you have to vent do it here, not to your H. We will be here to listen and offer our opinions. Good luck and be patient. Healing will begin as soon as you let it.

Thank you, each of you, for your words of support. I can't express how much it lifts my soul to know that there are people who are on this path with me and willing to pull me along.

I guess the thing I need to move past is trying to find the "one thing" that was broken. Every time I think about it, it makes me angry at him--wondering why he has broken something that was beautiful and good. It is hard to let go of the anger, but I know that I have to if we're going to remain a family. (My 4 yo daughter drew a picture of our family which I hung on the fridge to inspire us.)

We're having a hard time pulling ourselves out of our mutual funk right now. I've got my anger and resentment--and he's got his guilt and regret. We live in a reletively small town, and EVERYONE knows about his affair. He has a hard time even wanting to been seen in public because he is so ashamed. (My one comfort with that is that I am pretty sure if H and the OW were seen together word would get back to me very quickly. But I hate looking at people I see every day and wondering "do they know too???" It is hard to have a private pain be so public.)

Plus, just to keep things interesting, the OW went to our local church leaders and ratted my H out. This was her revenge--she knows that my H has been working on his Master's Degree at a private church-owned school and that what he has done seriously jeopordizes his school enrollment. (H told me that when he ended things with her she threatened him, "You ruined my life and now I'm going to ruin yours.") So our branch church officials have called my H in, and he is going through that process. We are still unsure what is going to happen with his school, which is nothing short of tragic because after 2 1/2 years and $20,000, he is just 4 mo. and 2 classes away from his degree! I pointed out to my H that, even if I had divorced him, I would never have tried to get him kicked out of school because I think it is spiteful. At least now he knows what kind of person hiw OW really is. So H is twisted in knots about what is going to happen, and is not sleeping well. I wish I could cheer him up, but I lack the emotional strength myself to know how.

But, listening to all of your advice, I am thinking that this despair is really a dangerous thing. If we are going to fix things, we need to strike while the iron is hot. Feeling sorry for ourselves is just adding fuel to a destructive fire. I need to plan a "date night" for us to try and get us both focused on something positive.

God Bless,
-CSJ

You might want to read the book "Torn Asunder" with your husband. It is a good book about affairs, especially the part about "The Message of the Affair".

It sounds like your husband is remorseful, and that is the most important thing. My husband was asked not to come back to our church where he has been a member and Deacon for over 20 years, until he talked to the pastors. He declined and hasn't been to church in the 3 years he has been living with OW.

I hope that your church practices mercy for those who are truly repentent.

Unfortunatly, it is usually the betrayed spouse who has to take the lead in recovery. It doesn't seem fair, but I will pray that you receive the strength to do that.

As far as "everyone knowing", I can really relate to that. My husband and I worked together, and live in a small community. Everyone at work knew. Everyone at our church found out. All of our neighbors and friends knew. It was humiliating at first, but you can overcome it, and show them your grace and loyalty.

I think things with our church will go alright. Our Bishop met with just me a few weeks ago to offer his support and to make sure I was okay. He also asked for some feedback regarding how they could handle my H without driving him away, which makes me very grateful. Of the two of us, I have always been more actively religious then my H, so it would be just another burden on me to try and heal my H's chruch problems and our marriage, too. His problems with school may prove to be more complex, but I promised him that I would stand by him 100%, as long as I KNEW that he was supportive of me and the kids. I will meet with the school officials myself, if that is what needs to be done. I want my H to know that I am, and always have been, his strongest advocate.

But all we can do is go forward one day at a time

Thank you, again, for your words of encouragement. It means a lot.

-CSJ

csj...

Time... Time heals. I hope that for you.

The embarrassment, I can sympathize with. I am from a small town as well. Nothing will feel better than proving to them all that you will make it.

We all care here.

Very, very much.

Blessings,

Eibrab

This may be the quote Believer was thinking of???

Read what Frank Pittman says about 'romantic infidelity'
Quote:


ROMANTIC INFIDELITY

Surely the craziest and most destructive form of infidelity is the temporary insanity of falling in love. You do this, not when you meet somebody wonderful (wonderful people don't screw around with married people) but when you are going through a crisis in your own life, can't continuing living your life, and aren't quite ready for suicide yet. An affair with someone grossly inappropriate-someone decades younger or older, someone dependent or dominating, someone with problems even bigger than your own-is so crazily stimulating that it's like a drug that can lift you out of your depression and enable you to feel things again. Of course, between moments of ecstasy, you are more depressed, increasingly alone and alienated in your life, and increasingly hooked on the affair partner. Ideal romance partners are damsels or "dumsels" in distress, people without a life but with a lot of problems, people with bad reality testing and little concern with understanding reality better.

Romantic affairs lead to a great many divorces, suicides, homicides, heart attacks, and strokes, but not to very many successful remarriages. No matter how many sacrifices you make to keep the love alive, no matter how many sacrifices your family and children make for this crazy relationship, it will gradually burn itself out when there is nothing more to sacrifice to it. Then you must face not only the wreckage of several lives, but the original depression from which the affair was an insane flight into escape.

People are most likely to get into these romantic affairs at the turning points of life: when their parents die or their children grow up; when they suffer health crises or are under pressure to give up an addiction; when they achieve an unexpected level of job success or job failure; or when their first child is born-any situation in which they must face a lot of reality and grow up. The better the marriage, the saner and more sensible the spouse, the more alienated the romantic is likely to feel. Romantic affairs happen in good marriages even more often than in bad ones.

Both genders seem equally capable of falling into the temporary insanity of romantic affairs, though women are more likely to reframe anything they do as having been done for love. Women in love are far more aware of what they are doing and what the dangers might be. Men in love can be extraordinarily incautious and willing to give up every-thing. Men in love lose their heads-at least for a while.

Hi CSJ

After reading your posts, I believe your husband is a lucky guy. I hope he learns to fully understand how lucky.

To pick up the mood, how about a mystery date. We use to do this alot. One person organizes an evening telling the other person only; what to wear and where and when to show up.

For example, we have spelunked, sat with ringside seats at a basket ball game, had a roof top romantic dinner by candle light. There are many options once you let your imagination go. I once took my husband on a surprise four day trip down south. Arranging with his boss ahead of time. He drove me to the airport thinking I was going with a friend - not realizing his bag was packed!

Infidelity is such a miserable experience. I really liked Mrs Stowaway's post from Pittman. It is spot on the money.

Ignore the looks, within a few weeks your story will be old news and the gossips will have moved on.

My heartfelt wish for you both is that you find this challenge brings you closer together.

Cheers,

PB

Thankyou, Mrs. Stowaway. I copied it and filed it where maybe I can find it next time.

God bless each of you for your thoughts and prayers. Something about knowing this group is out there has made me feel so much stronger. Last night I went home and when H greeted me with a hug, instead of feeling the anger rise up inside me, I just felt a sigh of relief, like everything was going to be alright. We are planning a night away, and he agreed that even though he doesn't want to fill out the "Emotional Needs Questionaire", he will at least rank the needs that are most important to him, so that I can have something positive to focus on.

This is not a path that I chose for myself, but somewhere I have heard it said that God will never give you a trial that you are not strong enough to handle. So I trust that He will help me through this one.

That is good news! Usually admiration is towards the top of the list for men.

Okay, I know that there are bound to be plenty of speedbumps, but I am ANGRY! My inside source (one of them, anyway) tells me that the OW has been very vocal about the end of the A. She says that my WH is a "f***ing a**hole" because up until the very end, he was promising her that he was getting ready to leave me and the kids for her.

I have read enough of the posts here to understand that men in their "fog" say stupid things, and I had some inkling that my WH was no different. For example, only days after D-Day, the OW had her friend phone me at my office to let me know that my WH was "playing both sides"--telling me that he wanted to work things out, and telling her that he was just biding his time and really wanted to be with her. The friend explained to me how wronged the OW was because "she is loosing everything." I snapped back "she deserves to." And basically hung up on her. When I confronted my WH with this little tidbit, he denied it. He had already told me that the OW was bitter and wanted to ruin his life, so I decided to disregard the friend's call, chalking it up to another lie from the OW.

But now I hear she is still spouting off something that is EXTREMELY painful to me to hear. The idea that this sickening relationship was ever considered to be a replacement to our marriage and family makes my blood run cold. Even during the A--when his behavior was so distant and aloof--when he came home from work our dear daughters (who are much to young to understand any of this, thank God) would run up to him with a big hug shouting, "Daddy!" How can you enjoy the love of innocent, beautiful little girls and still tell that hateful wh*** that you would abandon your family for her?

Are we (meaning my girls and me) really better off with him?

-CSJ
BS 34
WH 31
DD 4, DD 20 mo.
Married 8/97
DDay 11/17/05

So much for admiration.

I think that many WS's are so mixed up they don't know what they are saying. They tend to agree with the person they are with at the time.

My WH constantly told me that he loved me and wanted the marriage. Three years later, he is still living with the OW.

And OW are notoriously bitter and full of rage. If he is with you and his actions show he wants the marriage, let it go.

Why is it that the details like this hit so hard? WH did much worse than say loving things to OW--they had sex in the back of her jeep, in hotel rooms . . . . Why do these words hit so hard?

And why is it soooo easy to hate? Because my anger for WH is mixed with the love I have carried with me always, it hurts ME to be so angry with him! I feel like I am in a battle with myself.

But so easy to hate OW. A friend joked that she would slash OW's tires, and I laughed but inside thought it was a wonderful idea! A big part of me longs to confront her and say many terrible things that I'm only partly sure I would regret later. She has two young girls, too. What kind of a mother could possibly do this sort of thing? I picture her as being without a soul.

And I know that carrying hate is such a heavy burden. At some point I am going to need to find a way to set this load down and forgive--forgive this woman who fills me with venom and spite.

CSJ

BS 34
MH 31
DD 4, DD 20 mo.
Married 8/97
D-Day 11/17/05

Oh, I was the same way. But I did confront OW, and tell her what I thought - basically "Get off your back and go home and take care of your daughter!"

She left her 12 year old daughter to move in with my husband. That was 3 years ago. WH says her daughter is "the most important thing in the world to her". Yeah, right - she visits her about an hour every couple of weeks.

Finally, I only have a feeling of pity for the OW. She cheated on her husband while he was fighting in Iraq. She abandoned her daughter to live with a married man. It makes me happy to be the BS.

Thanks for that. It's nice to know that others have felt this way, too--and survived it all.

That last vent of my was perfect timing so that I could get that off my chest, have a good cry, and get home from work without unloading on WH as I walked through the door. The girls are in bed now and I have a minute to myself.

I did ask WH about my most recent discovery (in a much less hostile fashion, of course). He denied that he had ever promised OW any such thing. Sigh. It's so hard to tell what's true anymore. What I can say is that, all the evidence I can observe with WH tells me that he is REAL and that he is back, from wherever he was. Which is nice, because that whole year during the A, I missed him. But that begs the question, where did he go all that time? Was he really abducted by aliens?

And then I had a lightbulb moment. Just when I had decided that I needed to stop picking at the "WHY did he do this to me" question, I figured it out. A small victory, but for some reason meaningful to me to see that the person I LOVE did not do this to me for absolutely NO REASON.

It all goes back to that quote that Mrs. Stowaway cited, about affairs happening during high and low points in their careers, and that the perfect partner in an affair is the disfunctional damsel in distress. That, together with your observation, Believer, that admiration is often a significant need for men. Right at the time that the A started, WH was up for a promotion at his work. He tested for the position and got the 2d highest score, and had a lot of support from his supervisor. Plus, he was 1/2 done with getting his Master's degree--something the other applicants were not even close to having. We were both really hopeful and excited that the promotion was his. Sadly, it was given based entirely on seniority, so he didn't get it. WH was really disappointed, and discussed with me how he had really missed his chance.

At the same time, I now know this OW was throwing herself at him. I obviously didn't do what I should have to encourage him. And he may have not accepted much from me, anyway, because I have a successful legal career and probably wouldn't have appeared like I really understood him. It's ironic, because one of the first things that really stuck out to me about WH while we were dating is that he was not intimidated by my law degree at all, while so many other men obviously were bothered by it. But now I wonder if it turned out to be a liability after all. I think that WH felt like a failure and didn't sense that I would understand. And OW gave him the perfect stroke to his ego at his most vulnerable moment.

Maybe understanding him will help me forgive him--and get through all of this somehow.

Thanks for listening to my long rant. Good Night.

-CSJ

P.S. Believer, did it make you feel any better to confront your OW? I am considering a letter . . .

Hi csj!

My counsellor suggested writing a letter to the OW (and indeed another one to my FWH), getting all of my frustrations out in the letter and then burning it. I did this and it has helped. I have read your previous posts and I think if you sent the letter to this OW it would only add fuel to her fire. This low-lying adulterer is not worthy of this attention from you.

Cheers <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />