ROSE!!!! honestly, i was just thinking about you this past weekend. you and a few others, like roman, and autumday, neither posts anymore, i don't think. And spiderslayer, i know she still posts some, i just have not communicated with her. and then there is dreamcatcher. she vanished and every so often i say a pray for her. i fear something bad happened in her case. i hope i am wrong.

so you have a new grandson, how wonderful. what a joy.

i must admit, your marriage update is not as good to hear about. this is probably what i fear the most. we will stay together but not really heal, not really recover.

why do you think the sadness will not go away. are you guys actively working on your relationship. did you guys ever do MC or fill out the questionaires ENs and LBs, stuff like that?

i'm thinking that stuff is manditory to really recover a marriage. we are not doing any of it and that scares me, but doing it scares me too!! that's pretty dumb, huh?

God is also manditory for recovery, in my humble opinion anyway. we don't have that in our lives either. do you? i do personally, but we do not as a couple.

so what brought you here to MB today?

FL - Sorry, this is long. You might want to make a sandwich or something before reading it!

“why do you think the sadness will not go away. are you guys actively working on your relationship. did you guys ever do MC or fill out the questionnaires ENs and LBs, stuff like that?”

“God is also manditory for recovery, in my humble opinion anyway. we don't have that in our lives either. do you? i do personally, but we do not as a couple.”

My H and I are both Christians. This is the ironic part of my story. Before my A, I was the only one of us who was extremely involved in the church. My H was an angry person before my A, and of course, the A made everything worse. He went to church about 4 times a year, and felt good about it. He made fun of me for wanting to tithe! After d-day, we both turned heavily to God for restoration, and my H changed tremendously for the better, but he still has his anger issues.

The first year we read the books, did the questionnaires, etc., but my husband got to the point where going to MC and reviewing everything over and over got to be too painful - made him feel worse instead of better. I kept trying to get him to get IC to deal with the anger, but he would just get angrier when I suggested it. I even went with him to tell his parents about my A, just so he could at least talk to his father, who I knew would be supportive of him. He only talked to his father that one time, though, and wouldn’t go to him for help after that. We have become very close to our pastor, who would love to be there for my H, but it’s just very hard for my H to share this stuff anymore (we counseled with our pastor for about 8 months after d-day).

Another mistake I made was that I contacted OM by e-mail more times than my H thought, and a year later when I confessed (I wanted the slate to be clean and to be able to be 100% honest from then on), my H went ballistic (don’t blame him) and almost left then. I thought enough time had past that it wouldn’t be as bad as it was. Now I know how dumb I was. (The lesson here is, if you’re going to be honest, be honest sooner rather than later, right?!)

After a year or so, my H forbade me to talk about the A or anything to do with it, which is unreasonable and impossible, of course, but I did my best. I knew it was not a good idea, though. D-day anniversary last summer (#3) was awful. I decided not to mention anything about the A, since he had very angrily insisted that I not ever talk about it. He seemed to lose interest in me, even sexually, which is his #1 EN, so I knew he was really feeling terrible, but I felt helpless to do anything for him. He hated me, I think. He admitted that sometimes he feels like he hates me.

It was at least November last fall before he said he wished he had said something in the summer about it being d-day anniversary, and that he finally realized that not talking about it isn’t helpful or healing. He said I don’t do anything to make him unhappy; it’s just that the memories won’t go away. I tried to tell him about all the things we FWW’s do to forget (similar to smartcookies’ thread), and that HE would have to find what worked for HIM - that I could not get inside his head and change anything (or change the past, either, obviously). All I can do is be the best Christian, wife, mother, and now grandmother! that I can be. I’ve bought the books, looked up articles on line, made MC and IC appts for years, but he’s at the place where he has to help himself.

To top it all off, my grandson was born out of wedlock, so my H is extremely angry at our daughter now, too. He has referred to us as the “wh*res who scr*wed him over.” (only in front of me, though, our daughter has never heard him say those things, and I told him she better never hear it!)

“so what brought you here to MB today?”c

I’m lonesome and wish I had someone to talk to about all this, but it’s hard to know when and what to post here. I also worried about being recognized if I give too many details, in case friends or people from church might read here. But, what the heck.

We just had our 30th wedding anniversary, and the thoughts about what I did overcame him. He says as long as he’s at work or with friends or at church, he can take his mind off of it, but otherwise it is all still on the surface when things get quiet. So, instead of our anniversary feeling like a victory, it sometimes feels like we’re in a life sentence without parole. He got me a collage picture frame for Christmas, but won’t let me put pictures of our wedding in it. To him, our M was fake, ruined, etc. He doesn’t mind our prom picture, though. (We’ve been together forever and a day already!)

My H has become very involved in church, very well respected and looked up to, so he doesn’t want to get divorced because so many people would be influenced negatively by it. Of course, our children are the other reason he keeps working on our M - to be a good influence on them, and to give them stability. Only our pastor and his wife, my H’s parents, my sister, and a few of my girlfriends know about my A. I help out at church when asked, but have stayed out of the limelight as much as possible. I feel like I should just disappear sometimes, and not get involved. My pastor doesn’t agree with me, though.

I have a friend whose H had an A over 20 years ago, and she keeps saying that it’s time for my H to get better. I think he just really has to find ways to help himself. His trying to just tuff it out isn’t really working. He’s trying, though.

I’ve decided that the way to stay M is not to consider D an option, and have told my H I won’t file, and as long as we’re staying together, we might as well work on it and be happy, not just cell mates instead of soul mates (I read that in Wynona Judd’s new book LOL). He agrees with me. Meanwhile, I also am staying busy filling in my life with interests, friends, work, school, etc. My H is cheerier and more affectionate since we talked on our anniversary, but I know the roller coaster is still in motion.

Anyway - hope this isn’t TMI! (Too much information!)

God bless,

Rose55

Hi Rose,

I am really sorry i have taken so long to respond. Your post was not too long or too much information. I just needed some time. You see, what you describe is my biggest fear of what will happen in my case. staying married but not healing.

if you don't mind me asking, when did you confess the part about the additional contact? (yes, waiting a year was not a good thing to do, but don't worry, i am certainly not going to beat you up for waiting so long, it really is a hard lesson to learn isn't it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> it took me 2 times to confess all, remember, with 7months in between. I also was stupid enough to make contact with the long term friend of the family once, this occured shortly after i had confessed everything, maybe 1 or 2 months later. i was having bad dreams about that family. i tried talking to DH about the dreams, he did not want to hear about it. it was my problem. well stupid me, one day when DH was out of town, lost it and just "had" to call and find out. at least i ended up telling H about the contact immediately, however, it did not matter that one phone call did a lot of damage, H has told me that many times. how he really wished i had not made that contact back then. so we all have our hard lessons that we learn.)

are you saying this was Nov of 2005 or 2004. that was a very good thing that he realized back then. didn't this help?

i am sorry your grandson being born out of wedlock hurts your H. But he has no right to call either of you a wh*re Rose. I hope you know that. that must of really hurt. has he said that to you often? how did you respond? i hope you were able to tell him how that made you feel in a construtive way.

does your H know you feel lonesome??

you are in a very tough situation. but i am very glad to hear you want to stay married regardless. make it a habit of telling you H just that. i do the same. i think that is very important to him. i do believe he likes it when i tell him that. and it is the truth. no matter what. i never had that mindset before. i have learned this from my DH. divorce is just something that he would never ever do and he was very hurt that it was something i would consider. hopefully he is learning from me that staying married is not enough, that having a relationship is manditory too.

although i hear your pain, there really are good parts in your story too. i hope you can see that. do you?

again, i'm sorry i didn't respond yesterday. i kinda went downhill but i'm doing better today.

Hi again FL -

“what you describe is my biggest fear of what will happen in my case. staying married but not healing.”

I imagine that’s the fear of a lot of people who post here. That’s another reason it’s hard for me to post sometimes - I don’t want to discourage anyone. One of the hard things about staying M is trying to figure out if there’s a point where it would be healthier to D, and how long is long enough to keep on going.

“if you don't mind me asking, when did you confess the part about the additional contact?”

Summer of 2004, which was a year after the last contact with OM (and two years past d-day), I told my H that contact had gone on longer than he thought. I really felt like it was time to tell him, and that I “should.” It was almost worse than the original d-day. That is when the light finally went on in my stubborn head that what my H thought about contact (continuation of the affair, even without physical contact) was all that was important - not what I thought about contact (OM and I could be “just friends”). I understand completely now. I think his reaction knocked the rest of the fog right out of me. I regret that it took so long.

I wrote: “he finally realized that not talking about it isn’t helpful or healing.”
You asked: “are you saying this was Nov of 2005 or 2004. didn't this help?”

It was Nov of 2005 after a really bad summer of 2005. It helped him, but after our talks, I always feel worse for a long time, possibly because of his choice of words sometimes? At least he is honest about what he thinks and feels!

“has he said that to you often? how did you respond? i hope you were able to tell him how that made you feel in a constructive way.”

He doesn’t name call unless he is really frustrated and angry, and when I immediately point out that his words are inappropriate, he apologizes and says he doesn’t want me to feel bad about myself. That’s why I wish he would get IC or talk to his father or the pastor and get his angry words out in a safe place. A long time ago, out of desperation, I even suggested that he go ahead and yell at me and get it all out at once, but he didn’t want to do that either.

”does your H know you feel lonesome??” Yes, I tell him, but sometimes he really doesn’t want to be with me, and then it’s not fun to be with him anyway. He has “always” spent most of his time away from home (work and hobbies) and now he has added church responsibilities to his list of appointments. It’s ironic that our pastor who knows about all our troubles is the one who has taken my H’s time away from me by getting him so involved at church! I realize that the pastor’s purpose was to take my H under his wing and support him, though. He also is impressed by my H (my H is a very smart man), and believes my H is a good asset to the church. My H and I try to spend Friday evenings together, though, which usually works o.k., but can be quiet if the mood is blue. It seems like there isn’t even tension anymore most of the time, just that quiet sadness when I know he is thinking about what I did.

“although i hear your pain, there really are good parts in your story too. i hope you can see that. do you?”

Yes - I know there are tons of good parts to my story. My H and I have both changed a lot for the better. We’re headed in the right direction. We both feel that God wants us to stay together, and I can’t imagine that God wants us to be miserable. Recently, my H was studying a devotional and the theme was, “God won’t ask you to do something HE can’t do.” I don’t know what the scriptures were that went along with, but it makes sense.

Well, I hope you're having a good evening!

God bless,
Rose55

“That’s another reason it’s hard for me to post sometimes - I don’t want to discourage anyone."

Rose, you have got to be kidding. I don't think anyone would know me here if i only posted when i felt positive!!!! Post even if you are discouraged. It gives others the chance to tell you what they need to say to themselves too. stuff like, you are doing great, don't give up... didn't you notice how i zoomed in on trying to show you the positives to your story. there are always positives that someone can see, even when we cannot. (JL seems to be particulary good at that, drives me crazy sometimes!!)

"One of the hard things about staying M is trying to figure out if there’s a point where it would be healthier to D, and how long is long enough to keep on going."

yeah i know, i have that thought sometimes, but not so much anymore because i really do mean it when i say i am married for life now. i won't say that a D should never happen. i do believe there are difinitely marriages that should not continue. but as long as each spouse shows some effort, there is reason to hang on.

"I regret that it took so long."

i know you do Rose. i have a ton of regrets too. but at least you are free of all secrets now. that is the important thing. you can't change the past but you certainly did learn from it. right?

"It helped him, but after our talks, I always feel worse for a long time, possibly because of his choice of words sometimes? At least he is honest about what he thinks and feels!"

that is right and that is very important. you have to fight off the urge to crash when he opens up. it's not really fair to him, know what i mean? trust me, i have the same tendency at times but i really fight it now. he has to be allowed to show you his insides. now i still don't think he should use mean and hurtful words and you have every right to tell him how you feel about his choice of words. but even then, letting him know you are strong enough to see his pain and still focus on him instead of reverting inward, i think is good.

"He doesn’t name call unless he is really frustrated and angry, and when I immediately point out that his words are inappropriate, he apologizes and says he doesn’t want me to feel bad about myself."

and then after the apology, do you guys continue to talk so he can learn better ways to communicate with you when he is frustrated or angry?? it seems like that would be important to do.

" ”does your H know you feel lonesome??” Yes, I tell him, but sometimes he really doesn’t want to be with me, and then it’s not fun to be with him anyway."

ok, so when he needs his space, give it to him, BUT not to the extent that you are never together!!!

"My H and I try to spend Friday evenings together, though, which usually works o.k., but can be quiet if the mood is blue. It seems like there isn’t even tension anymore most of the time, just that quiet sadness when I know he is thinking about what I did."

i understand about that quiet sadness. DH and I have been talking about the same thing. I fear it will always be there, just under the surface. He does not really say much about it but i have notice that he is trying to be more playful, by tickling me, and when he does, i make sure i am very open to it. of course sometimes i tease him by not letting his attempts actually result in laughter, that just gets him to try harder until i finally do laugh.

we have had such a hard time for so long (majority of our marriage really) it almost feels unnatural to be happy together. if the same is true with you all i can advise is to WORK AT IT!!! change old habits cuz i think that is part of the problem. you might have fallen into a habit of being sad.

do you have something you both enjoy doing?? for us it was raquetball for a while, although we have really gotten out of the once a week habit, we still play occasionally, more often with the kids than without. (we really DON"T spend enough couple time together right now. something i should find a way to change.)

“Yes - I know there are tons of good parts to my story. My H and I have both changed a lot for the better. We’re headed in the right direction. We both feel that God wants us to stay together, and I can’t imagine that God wants us to be miserable. Recently, my H was studying a devotional and the theme was, “God won’t ask you to do something HE can’t do.” I don’t know what the scriptures were that went along with, but it makes sense."

I'm glad you are able to see the good too. keep focusing on that whenever you can.

and i do hope you continue to post more.

"Well, I hope you're having a good evening!"

Yes, my evening was spent, taking a walk (trying to lose weight still) and then helping both kids with homework, my DD had a project that kept her up till 11pm. DH went out for a bit. It's just about 12:30am here, I'm thinking it is time for me to get to sleep and wait for him there instead of in front of this computer. maybe a quick shower first <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> nite.