"Heard that . "nobody makes you and you can't make anybody"
& believed I believed it."

Gonna hold you to that, toots.

Now...about the money...

I dunno. See, you're in the inbetween...you are legally married but seperated. I don't know legally if that is kosher or not. Are you acting from fear? That usually leads us to places that really suck.

"Do I understand you correctly..that I should need to stop craving H, that you don't see any hope, that I need to just move on. All I have to do now is believe I don't love him, & I can move on with no pain, hurt, etc..just kidding!"

You almost gave me a heart attack!!!

Uh, just kidding. You wuttle devil you.

Have a good day tomorrow. Feel the freedom of not being responsible for other people's feelings, thoughts, beliefs or destinies...you should lose two billion pounds that way, at least.

((((()))))
LA

Now...about the money...
I dunno. See, you're in the inbetween...you are legally married but seperated. I don't know legally if that is kosher or not. Are you acting from fear? That usually leads us to places that really suck.

• No, not from fear so much as a lack of trust. Couple of things H said yesterday makes me wonder..he gave me list of cc bills he paid, including paying off his car, which when we'd discussed what would pay wasn't even mentioned. When him if he'd paid one to XX, which is in my name only, he got sorta defensive, miffed, & said No, HE hadn't; that would be the last one he paid! When these are combined with his not responding to request for us to be honest w/ each other, & no wanting me to have access to his cell phone account..realize I mostly likely should not trust him as much as I have been.

Really feel that "something is in the wind" kinda like weeks/months leading up to Dday! YUKY, YUKY feeling...uncertainly, suspense...waiting for the other shoe to drop!

As for legally, it is a joint account & other than family, couple of close friends that I know are aware we are separated, willing to bet he's not told too many people..for couple of reasons - they might ask questions -he doesn't want to discuss it; wants to keep his "good guy" image, & to protect OW.

Heard that . "nobody makes you and you can't make anybody"
& believed I believed it." Gonna hold you to that, toots.

• Gonna do my best to remember this one! Seems so easy, until actually "in the moment"..then old habits, reactions, etc. just kick in!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hope your Monday is a marvelous one!
Thanks for being you & willing to share your knowledge, experience, understanding & most of all your patience & friendship!
(((()))))

Your choice on the money sounds like a good thing, I guess. I would substantiate what you take in some way...and no, didn't realize he was playing fast and loose while saying he was being reasonable. No shock there, eh?

And yes on the new belief...it is simple, but so far from easy! Practice practice practice...you can do this even when the old emotions kick in as information from your old belief. Nope, this one isn't mine. I'm respectful now, of myself and others. I listen and repeat. No arguing here.

Take care as you take action...I believe in you and all that you're discovering about yourself and how you live your life. You do what you choose to do. I'll be behind you.

LA

And yes on the new belief...it is simple, but so far from easy!
Seems harder for me..due to my not ever having been on my own & alone before..H family was my family, but well aware that "blood is thicker" ; since H has been my life, have few friends, although they are "true friends" & ones had for years, all but 1 since at least HS; & my kids have lives of their own, & to be honest, really have tried very hard not to "bash" their Dad.. so support system alittle weak..so MB & especially you are a true God send for me!
I know your advice is excellent of there would have been others who chimed in by now !! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />)

Whoa...wait...the last belief...that others would have chimed in by now...

I didn't think that. I thought our mutually novel-length posts scared them away!

Oh, no...what if I'm all wrong! LOL

You're terrific and I'm happy God brought us together. You enrich my spirit and tickle my funny spot. Your honesty brings you in close and mine in return is what you're believing...and you can.

Now, I have to go practice what I preach instead of just writing about it...

(((((TGal)))))

LA

Never thought about our novel length post maybe frightening people away..just thought those type of posts were "normal"
(Great minds think alike! Hehe!)
Glad you have a sense of humor & understand my rather "warped" one!
Yep.. you gotta practice what you preach
I have to get ready for Monday!

BTW - are you a writer by profession..is that your day job on top of all the others? just nosey/curious,if don't mind my asking.

Did I tell you for the 50th time how wonderful you are.

You guessed I was a writer.

I'm happy dancing...along with GMTA above...

Yes, I am a writer. I write on MB boards.

LOL

And I write stories, too.

However, I don't get paid for them.

I do, however, pay people for a living.

I'm balanced, eh?

LA

Thinking of you...no rush. Just thought of.

LA

Thought of you alot & wished several times there was way I could talk w/ you...

Know this might not make a lot of sense, but had a really hard time since my last post.
I have tried to practice what I’ve learned from MB & you, done pretty well with no LBs.
But with myself for each step forward taken 10 steps backward! EZ to slip back into life long habits, patterns. Feel ready to give up…want to find place to hide, pull covers over my head..unable to deal with all this – too overwhelming, too much pain, uncertainty, depressed, crying, immobilized, want to shut down. –mentally, emotionally & at times physically from all turmoil. Haven’t been able to shake feeling that Hs wanting to paid off all bills, restore house, etc.) is all leading to somewhere.

Each day I’ve prayed asking God’s guidance, direction & peace, that He knew my heart, my H heart, & my needs better than I

Really bad day I was reading MB post, when I came across this one

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;gonew=1#UNREAD

These words really spoke to me:

".....I realized even the most simple contact had the most detrimental effects on me."
"......At this time you are all over the place."
"..... Does that mean that he will return to you a repetent and remorseful H? Right now, it doesn't seem so."
"....... I recognized that I wasn't worthy of crumbs...I was worthy of the entire cake and if he wasn't willing to give it to me...well, he wasn't having any part of me. I finally got it....and then my recovery...personal recover was to begin."

"The one thing we tend to do when recovering from infidelity is to neglect the blessings....if we paid more attention to these blessings and counted them...personal recovery would come to us so much quicker "

"My selfishness was overwhelming in that I was playing hostess and favorite guest to my personal pity party."



Also read this MB Post - :Giving Up" http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;gonew=1#UNREAD
"Friend, it's time to yank yourself out of the morass, take up for yourself, and start fighting the alien.
I know only one way to ensure things will never get better and that’s for you to keep on rolling down the river, going with the flow and being nice to the alien. Get with the program,... It’s time to get up on your hind legs and fight back, as Grandma used to say."

• This is more like the stronger real me!
  Actually do feel strength when read the words in these two posts..that I can make it..with God's help!

Really made me think & realize alot of things I didn't /couldn't see before, or chose not to see: - have been too trusting, & gullible,
That I’ve been a doormat long enough…
Some of the first things that came to my mind.almost immediately..
• I should start back going to some of the dances
• Ask him to sit down to see where we are at with finances,now, his plan for restoring house & ask what/how he sees our relationship in the future , etc. (Few months back he told me that if I wanted to draft document stating & outlining that he’d take care of me financially, etc he’d sign it in front of notary..interested in seeing if he’s still willing, depending on what he has to say ) Time for me to look out for myself ! All without any LBs !


• After more than year of honoring H’s request that we not tell anyone & being reasonably certain that he’s told some – I feel time has come for me to tell truth, my side-knowing that with H talent for twisting/turning truth to his favor/POV, like a lawyer.to quit protecting / enabling him...by pretending all is "normal" / OK..
That I need to expose to his family, friends, & to grown kids, OW’s mother ( if can get her name – met her several times really sweet lady) & her job - felt this very strongly & the words just flowed onto the paper!-- even though still have no concrete proof
making sure everyone else know I want & trying re-build the marriage. I did not hinder his decisions to move out, although I did not agree or condone, that beginning with his decision to have an affair in the first place - was his decision.
[OK I admit my meanness showing is as want to word it to remind all good Christian church goers (dances) & Catholic family members - that is sinning, & they aren't helping by putting their heads in sand, acting as if his behavior is "normal" maybe include couple articles I’ve found on adultery/infidelity from church view]


Week ago, when Son came home from mall he told me he'd seen OW's daughter at restaurant , that she'd come up to him & ask if his name was AB, when he said yes, why. She told him her name & whose daughter she was - that his dad & her mother were "friends"
Then this Monday night, was at restaurant in mall, & this time she came up to him again, made small talk & introduced him to her co-workers ( she's the restaurant manager) as her new "step-brother" & that his dinner was on her. He said didn't like it but went along with it, that he didn't & wasn’t right to blame her for her mother actions.
He was upset with his dad however, Son said when our neighbor left his wife of 25+ years for girl younger than his daughter, his Dad told him that he'd never do that to his mother !

Today son learned from his grandmother (his Dad’s mother) that his Dad was out state where most of her family lives at dance, wondered if his Dad took OW to meet family & if they stayed with family while there or at motel/hotel. ( All look forward to big 3 day family reunion there every Easter)
Between these events think son realizes that even though his Dad tells him & acts like all is normal between us, that his Dad isn’t telling him truth, which has him really upset with his Dad.


Still working on reply to your 3/12 posts – but took detour, which I believe is way I need to go for me.

As always looking forward to your replies & comments. Thanks for walking with me on my journey, feel it will be a long one – if doesn’t kill me know will make me stronger

I'm behind you on exposure. Understand you have felt like a doormat, just want you to see you made the choices which led to that...he can't make you be a doormat. I don't think you are one, btw. I think you're human.

Silly me, huh?

I'm glad reading here helps you, guides you and connects you with others.

As for your son's experience with OW's daughter...ask how feels feels, what he believes, and inform him first of the A. See, OW's daughter isn't blameless...she is uninformed. He needs to say, "Your mother is cheating with my father on my mother. Doesn't make us step-anything."

He has to have his power, which is truth, right?

Is it mean to proclaim truth? Your son needs to see it; the charade doesn't tell a grown man that he knows what he knows, just allows him to tell himself he doesn't know.

Crazymaking.

So, three huge cheers on exposure and your words flowing and your strength rising. May the block to your O&H statements have been not exposing, you think?

Thinking of you,

LA

Hey, TGal...

I found a thread here I wanted to see if you'd take a look at...here is the link from the beginning...

What do you think of this?

I was wondering if this fit your situation at all?

Thinking of ya...

LA

I read some of this..& do believe it does fit my situation.
The MidLife Crisis site is the first one I found that seemed to offer any explanation ...remember reading somewhere that midlife crisis was usually triggered by traumic (sp?) event - guess his dying twice in 1 day would qualify, huh? Anyway here is my post on MLC site back in March,2005 - if you'd like to read it
http://midlifecrisisforum.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/9846084204/m/6351098631/r/4631079631#4631079631
Hope did right for it to work..might have to copy/paste.
Will try to post more later.
Thinking of you as well..alot.

LA ...

Please clarify what you meant..not sure understand..

• "May(be) the block to your O&H statements have been not exposing, you think?"
  

Since you essentially held your WH's secret, do you think that blocked your ability, your allowance to yourself to be open and honest (O&H)?

I do O&H with "I believe" and "I feel" statements. They are voluntary. They are to share myself with others. I have to do that because I have it in my standards. I share my thoughts, feelings and beliefs. If I didn't do that, withheld (lying by omission), then I couldn't enforce my boundary of not allowing others to lie to me.

Keeping secrets, covering up or ignoring truth (all are the same to me), prohibits me from enforcing my boundaries...so why wouldn't it also keep me from holding to my standards?

LA

Update…on my mental, emotional & physical roller coaster ride….

Trying to get my ducks in row.. will talk with attorney on either 11th or 18th, just to ask questions, get advise, etc.

Friday 3/31 - H is came to house after work to start w/ dejunking garage to use for staging area for cleaning out attic, then wants to put down 5/8-3/4 inch plywood for decking in attic before having new AC/Heat units, ducting & new vent in den installed - which H wants done before gets too hot.
Didn't get to the attic , H was dancing in exhibition at yearly festival downtown on Sat morning & then going to another dance out of town,. All after telling me earlier in week that if club danced in festival as always do on Sat morning they’d have to do it w/o him! I told him that made me when he changed plans I felt disrespected & was inconsiderate of him to do so, since I cancelled my plans in order to have time to get stuff done. Next time to please show me respect & consideration by letting me know ahead of time if his plans change, so I can have option of changing mine. He’d arranged for the trash guy to come to haul off stuff out of garage at 5P, after he’d leave for night dance. No AO, DJ’s.
I also went to festival as I’ve done each year since it started as it’s always fun, & all profits go to the Senior Activity Center. I was early, so I stood in the shade between 2 buildings while waited for it to open at 10a…H & OW walked by, H spoke, she started to, then just walked on. I hung back & watched club dance few tips, few of club members saw me & came up to talk w/ me..then I walked on down street to see rest of festival. After exhibition over, H came back to house, brought me a watermelon. Later on he said that reason he wanted to restore the house was so I, we could be proud of it again; that he wasn’t doing it so could get his things/stuff out.
Trash guy didn’t show up at all Sat. He did came Sun morning as I was leaving,& told him he’d have to call H to make new arrangements as I had plans Then I called H on his cell phone when didn’t get answer at his mothers. He called guy & arranged for him to come back at 2p Sunday afternoon & H met him here.

I ask H if he thought could arrange to have my car worked on before next week & he ask why.
said so I could go to LA for family reunion at Easter. ( it’s his mother’s family) H said that it would be silly to take 2 cars..that of course I’d ride with him & his mother just like always..

Also said I was gullible. Week or so ago he said I was pessimistic, which really upsets /makes him angry with me, as he really is also. I agreed with him, I am gullible, trust him in some things / ways .

In last few weeks, when he’s called has said how his mother is driving him crazy..her singing, humming, her talking on phone & telling each one talks to the same things each time.. His indirect way of letting me know he’ll be moving out soon perhaps.

When I’ve had spare time last few weeks, & my brain was working ..I’ve been researching, reading about boundaries – personal & in marriage, active listening,& other some that I’ve printed off or copied, but not read completely yet.
Here’s sites which has a lot of helpful info: -
Active Listening:
http://www.mindtools.com/CommSkll/ActiveListening.htm

Personal Boundary Info
http://www.bpd411.org/boundariesintro.html

Boundaries in Marriage
http://www.cs.cornell.edu/home/kreitz/Christian/Boundaries/all.html?HTML=Html+Version

Still need to do my beliefs, standards, values, principles, truths, etc. which I started.
Then there are questions from you I still need to answer, which also started.
Slowly, but surely I’ll get there!

From 3/26/06 Post

"I'm behind you on exposure. Understand you have felt like a doormat, just want you to see you made the choices which led to that...he can't make you be a doormat. I don't think you are one, btw. I think you're human. Silly me, huh?"

• Yes, I know was my choice to agree to his request not to tell anyone..not knowing any better at time..exceptions being close friends felt I needed for help & my support, have pretty much honored that for last year.
  I'll admit I was embarrassed, humiliated that by my allowing H to dance w/ OW, having no reason not to trust him, no proof-other than feeling/gut instinct that "they were more than "Just friends" / dance partners" as H told me.. was afraid that if told I'd run him off..& all the other excuses I told myself..
  
  I am pretty sure he’s told lots more than I have..besides finding MB since then, learning about exposing, another reason I want to expose, so can hear truth about the last year, since H has such a talent for twisting & turning things , like a lawyer does want my side, the truth heard, hopefully in such way I don’t come across as jealous, jilted bi$$h also like to work in that know most all belong to & go to church weekly, are all aware adultery/infidelity is sin..even found some info to include from churches !!! So by ignoring, are actually condoning H & OW behavior instead of pointing it out !!
  Will be honest & admit that when I even think about exposure, I get the jitters, tingly all over, stomach knots, etc. as know he will be really angry & upset, especially about exposure in dance circle as likes all think he’s good guy, but know must & will do it .
  I really don’t believe that after us being separated over year now, that exposing will end H relationship w/ OW, think way too late for that to happen!
  Really wished that I'd known about MB lot earlier, but figure there’s a reason I didn’t, wasn’t God’s timing
  My choice to keep silent made me feel really bad about myself..really beat down…don’t like to lie by omission, make excuses, etc. just never like it! Never good at it either !

"I'm glad reading here helps you, guides you and connects you with others."

• What helps, guides & connects me the most is what I get from you..your have great compassion, empathy, insight, etc. and share knowledge, advise so freely & willingly, with no judgement, expectations, etc. just lots of patience..which need w/ me !
  all with a wonderful sense of humor! Couldn’t ask for more.
  From some of other post they are able to express in words ways, things I feel, but aren’t able to get into words as they do.

"As for your son's experience with OW's daughter...ask how feels feels, what he believes, and inform him first of the A. See, OW's daughter isn't blameless...she is uninformed. He needs to say, "Your mother is cheating with my father on my mother. Doesn't make us step-anything."
He has to have his power, which is truth, right?
Is it mean to proclaim truth? Your son needs to see it; the charade doesn't tell a grown man that he knows what he knows, just allows him to tell himself he doesn't know.
Crazymaking."

• Will do this one next time

"So, three huge cheers on exposure and your words flowing and your strength rising. May the block to your O&H statements have been not exposing, you think?"

• Words did flow, but bad news didn’t get all written down & now have writer’s block
  (ask God to give me words if this path He wanted me to take, but guess I messed up or again just not right time..sure words will come when needed)
  When have letter to MIL & other siblings, letter to family out of state & one to dancers will post for review, comments editing to be sure no DJs, etc. & don’t sound like jealous, jilted witch!

• As for my strength – don’t want to give false impression..it been coming & going, mostly goes when I’m around H..seem to revert back to old ways/habits..

• Yep, I’m human, just slightly warped & off center ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
  Next time like to come back as little dog to rich loving family ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
  
  Hope have slow day tomorrow at work so can read some of boundary stuff I printed off...just skimmed over it & sounds like what you've told me..even the "crazymaking"!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
  
  Hope have good night & wonderful day!
  As always looking forward to your reply!

(((Tgal injection!)))

Thank you very much.

"I ask H if he thought could arrange to have my car worked on before next week & he ask why." Uhm, why aren't you taking care of getting your own car worked on, toots? You can do this. No judgment...more self-care.

What did you say when WH dj'd you with don't be silly? Did you stick to your boundary of respect? Tell him that saying you were silly is abusive? That you do not want to drive to LA with him and his mother?

Him telling you that you are gullible is defining you. You may agree with it, but you are allowing abuse for him to tell you are. Ask him to rephrase, "I believe you are gullible." Okay then.

Same with pessimistic, silly, fragile, beautiful, WHATEVER.

"I am gullible, trust him in some things / ways ." Start owning, Tgal (you'll have to look up my recent posts...novellas...on this)...You CHOSE to trust him in some things and ways. Where's the gullible?

Because he didn't earn his side of the trust? You only choose to trust your side; he earns his.

Truth straightening:

"another reason I want to expose, so can hear truth about the last year," Exposing does not get you truth. It shows truth to the light. Your WH twists and lies. You may not receive the truth.

This is why you expose: "My choice to keep silent made me feel really bad about myself..really beat down…don’t like to lie by omission, make excuses, etc. just never like it! Never good at it either !" You no longer make yourself a living sacrifice, an offense, you know. You are worth not beating up, not judging bad, not choosing to lie by omission. You're worth it.

"Yep, I’m human, just slightly warped & off center !"
DJ to yourself!!! Alert, Alert!! Hands off your own self-respect, Tgal. God says you are whole, complete and marvelously made. Stop dis'ing God.

I got "Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud & Townsend. I'm with you on your journey, Tgal!

Are you looking for power or permission with boundaries?

LA

Morning!

Thanks for your responses!
Gotta' go to training class shortly, but have few
things need to clarify / understand:

• "I am gullible, trust him in some things / ways ." Start owning, Tgal (you'll have to look up my recent posts...novellas...on this)...You CHOSE to trust him in some things and ways. Where's the gullible?

I tried looking up your recent posts & under user name
"novellas" & didn't find anything..Guess I'll search
using "owning" to see what get..in meantime..could you
tell name of post/subject &/or poster I need to find about "owning"?

Want to work on my truths, beliefs, etc.
Little confused about these..are beliefs, values, principles, standards, morals, etc. all same things as my truths?

Have a great day! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I guess I mislead you...my recent posts...this week...to a few people...they were long...my "novellas" comment was about length, not subject.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Just click on my name and go back to Monday's date for posts...I think. better_than_ever's thread with my name as the thread title might help you out...same for LLG's thread "Seeking Experience and Attention to Detail"

Sorry I wasted your time by not being more clear. You ARE a search engine, Tgal. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

LA

Found 'em! Don't think was waste of my time!
Now just gotta find time to read all of 'em!
Sorry..have more questions... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
"Little confused about these..are my truths my beliefs, values, principles, standards, morals, etc.? "

Is there certain order that I need to work on these things
in? If so, which first?
Truths / Expectations
Ownership
Boundaries

Time to go home.. later!
Thanks!

Bump for LA