First, I cant access the cell phone records online it asks for a SS#..since all the phones are thru the compnay I dont know who's SS# was used I presume my FIL i dont know his #.

I cant get into the office, I was not able to copy the keys, and my H always has reasons why I am not allowed to come to the office, and even if I was to go to the office, say I just showed up, he would not let me at the records, further they have an accountant outside of the office that handles all of the bookkeeping.

If the odd chance that I can get in and get copies made I will. But the odds are that it would be very very difficult for me to pull that off. His mother decided that she wanted to go back to working at the office again, after taking 6 months off. I was hoping that this would be beneficial to me, but im really not sure. See she used to be the one that handled all of the payables. Then when IL's took time off to move, I was helping H with that. Then OW came into the company, and she was taught how to do it, so for the past 2+ months all of the payables have mostly been left to H and OW. Now that MIL is back in the office she is going to be handling that again, and she is going to be able to scrutinize the bills, such as WH AMEX card.

So then. Either his spending habits are going to have to cut back a bunch because he will not be able to hide it from her. OR my utter worst fear that my IL's already know what is going on would have to be true. I guess.

All of their payroll is done through ADP so, I dont think there is anyway that they are getting ADP to do anything less than legal.

And Im just not sure that the accountant is willing to be putting his neck on the line either. But I guess one never knows.

I just dont know what much I can do, I think that my hands are really tied.........and unfortunately think that means I am screwed.

Thats why I asked if my knowledge of things that they spend company $$ on is worth anything....becuase that is all I have. I cant guarantee that there is anyway possible for me to aquire copies of anything at this point.

I really hope that MIL and FIL dont know what is going on. I pray that they dont know.

I hope that I will be able to fight for my marriage and win, I hope to have my family back together again. My husband home with me and the kids again. Instead he comes up with more and more reasons to spend less and less time with us.

If IL's already know about OW and WH intentions, and they are supportive of that, then I dont think I stand a chance of getting him back.

The not knowing is killing me. And trying to get vaildation is proving to be very difficult.

nope but business records can be supeoned. I would want the last 3 yrs. If you get to go out and leave him hoime with the kids -this is what I would do and havee done. I kept WH's cell pohone and hid it. When he left in the ma he thought he had it in his car. Nope as soon as he left I pulled his numbers- cahnged hiscode on cell phone. They send text to the cell phone to change the access number and you need to have it to get this number then bingo. I was in. He changed it back after a few months and Icalled him right up and told him - he said he did not know why but it was changed back in a few minutes. I would also get groceries and get another 40 or 50 out when you use debit card -stash stash stash.
Is your WH one that can't find his keys? If so maybe tell him your going one place and instead take his keys and go to his office -if you can get in at night and photo copy everything you can get ahold of.

He is attached at the hip to his phone, doesnt let it out of his sight.

He also put a lock on his phone so that I cant view the call histories like I used to. His friend Mike made him wise to locking his phone.

Also, if he suspected for even a moment that I was lying about where I was going, and found that I took his keys, he would have Mike go do a drive by at the office because Mike lives like 2 min away from the office and is apparently more than happy to lie for my WH. Infact I think that Mike encourages him to do it.

I would find it very hard to believe that your MIL, being a religious woman, would support her DS having an A on his pregnant W and mother of his other children, her grandchildren. I know I wouldn't support either of my sons in that. I would be all over their cases...they would need to steer clear of mom.

Would your parents help you out with hiring a PI? I hope they will continue to try to tail him.

My parents are going to follow my WH tomorrow morning from the time he leaves the house. Since his parents are not in the office on Thursdays he doesnt have to be in to the office until later, so these are the days he usually leaves the house at the same time, but goes to the office to pick up OW and take her out to breakfast and such.

So hopefully they will be able to see get some sort of proof, and hopefully he will be too preoccupied to notice them following him.

I hope for some proof one way or another so I can finally not feel like I am crazy and creating all this suspicion in my head.

I too hope that my MIL and FIL dont know and that they would not aide my WH in all of this mess. My MIL is much more observant than my FIL and I am hoping that now that she will be back at work 2 days a week that she will pick up on things that my FIL probably didnt even notice.

If other ppl in the office have commented that they felt that WH and OW had something going on, then their behavior cannot possibly be that undetectible to ppl that you spend a whole day at work with. I also hope that she goes back and reviews the last 2 months CC statements.

I know she doesnt want to loose contact with the grandkids....she loves 'em to pieces....I am praying like crazy that they will be on my side and help me to keep my family together.

If tomorrow I get no proof, I will talk to my parents to see if they can help me with a PI, they are rather pricey, I couldnt afford one on my own. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

We are supposed to go to MC tomorrow night. I dont know what is going to happen. H still hasnt put his wedding ring back on. He says he is not ready to put it back on, and that he doesnt even feel married to me anymore. He wanted to go to bed early because he was tired and said he didnt feel good. I said good night and told him that I loved him. He said "I hope so, I hope I am good enough for you."

I feel so confused.

I have been telling him how proud I am of him and his accomplishments at both work and with his diest and exercise. I tell him how impressed I am with his committment to be healthier and loose weight. I help him pack his gym bag, and help him workout when he exercises at home. I have offered to buy gym equipment so we can exercise together at home.

I tell him how important he is to me and to this family. I tell him how much I love him, how much he means to me, why I love him, how much I cherish him and everything he does for me and for this family. I brag about how wonderful he is, and the things that he does especially things he is good at.

When his family picks on him about his weight and trys to buy him clothes in larger sizes than he wears, I stick up for him and laugh at what they bought, and tell them they are crazy that he doesnt wear that giant size. And then inform them of the smaller size shirt I just bought for him a week earlier.

I dont know what I do wrong, but apparently I do something wrong or I wouldnt be here. I dont understand statements where he says things like I quoted above when I think I tell him and show him that very thing all the time. There is something I am missing, something I dont see.

He doesnt want to touch me, doesnt want to kiss me, doesnt want to hug me, doesnt want to hold me, doesnt want to be sexual with me, doesnt want me to call him, doesnt want me to tell him I love him when I do call him, doesnt want to tell me he loves me, doesnt feel like he is married to me, isnt sure he wants to live with me, thinks we are headed to divorce......but says "I hope so, I hope I am good enough for you." Is this a joke?

I sit and listen to him intently, I hang on every word as if it is the last I am going to hear. I try to focus on everything he says, and act on the things that he says upset him. I have tried to improve myself in anyway that I can. Things that used to make him smile at me, or say wow you look beautiful, or tell me how good I smell, dont even make him blink. I feel like a blur to him.

I dont know what more to do,
No matter how hard I listen he says im not listening.
No matter how hard I try he says I dont try.
No matter how hard I praise him he says I dont care.
No matter how much I encourage he says I discourage.
No matter how much I do he says I dont do enough.
He doesnt notice anything I do except when I cry,
that he notices, but he doesnt care why.

I dont know what to do, I dont know what to say, I dont know how to act.

The baby is due in 3 weeks....I dont want her to be born into this craziness. I want her to be born into the loving family that her brother and sister were brought into.

I dont know what im doing wrong anymore......im trying so hard and it seems futile.

If he's really overweight and feels bad about that, maybe he bought into the OW falling all over him and "wanting" him. It sounds like she's taking him for a ride, planning on getting as much money out of him as she can. When he's living this fantasy, I don't know what you can do. I think the only thing that will help, is to bust up the A by exposing it. Your IL's will probably fire the OW when they get solid proof that the two of them are carrying on. If your H and his OW are raiding the business accounts to finance their adultery, I can't imagine his parents are going to stand for it. Down the line, your H is going to be so embarrassed and sorry for what he's done.

If your family can't get solid, solid proof, then let your parents help you pay for a top-notch PI and get the goods you need. This OW is not only going to destroy your family, it sounds like she's going to do some serious damage to your H's family business.

Your IL's may not want to believe their son would be doing this type of thing, especially if it's totally out of character for him. So, you're going to have to have some real proof that the A is going on and that it's impacting how your son is doing business. Do your IL's know how immoral these other friends of his are, particularly this Mike, who is on the payroll? I'd think that they'd only want to have decent people working in the business.

I think that the idea of leaving your H alone in the house, with it filled with recorders is a VERY good idea. Is there any way that you could tell your H that you are so upset and exhausted, that you need to spend a weekend with your family to help you rest before the baby comes? Can you get recorders all through the house and leave him to his own devices for a weekend or at least overnight? If you have caller ID, you could call him from your folks' house, so he knows that you are actually there and feels safe not to be caught. If his OW lives in a trailer with an air mattress, they would likely head over to your house and your H will at least call her from the house. It's a way to get the goods on him, so that you can expose and get your husband to come to his senses.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. You sound like a wonderful person. You are strong and you'll be ok. You're doing the right things. You might just need to step all this up and get the PI or get the recordings right away, so this can be exposed to your IL's as soon as possible, so you can get their help and not be doing this alone.

Hang in there.

Thank you so much for the advice and suggestions.

I can go out for the night and come home late, but sleeping away would never work he would expect me to take the kids with me. And if I refused to take them with me and went on my own and he brought OW to my house with my kids and her daughter.....no way!!!! I would then have to feel guilty that I exposed my kids to something that they should not be wittness to.

Im going to have to try going out for some time at night and leaving the recorders where I think he will be.

Im going to look into the PI thing a little further today and talk to my parents about hiring one for me.


And he is not really overweight, but he is a diabetic, and the bit of extra weight that he carries in his belly is not good for him. So the thing that the OW is prolly achieving for him that I cannot at the moment (although I am trying to figure ways that I can) is that she eats breakfast and lunch with him daily and helps him to eat healthier and makes sure he doesnt snack on junk during the day. She is on some severe diet and he is feeding into her diet...he tells me about her diet all the time. Which has helped her loose weight, but it is not a healthy diet its not proper nutrition what she is telling him, and she has him sucking on sugarry hard candies all day long so that he doesnt snack on anything else.

Prior to us completely gutting our kitchen mid-Nov., I used to be able to cook for our family, and its not so possible for me to prepare all the fresh food meals for him that I used to because we dont have a kitchen, I have a microwave and a fridge....thats it atm.

This has been all I can figure so far that turned him away from me and to her at this point. Although prior to OW coming around, he was never so severe about his weight and being healthy either, yeah it was a good thing, and he was excited about exercise and weight loss, but he is militant about it now.

On days when he doesnt work and actually eats meals with me, ridiculous things.... 5 almonds for breakfast, plain salad for lunch and plain salad for dinner, and before bed a piece of turkey and cheese. This is not even good nutrition. But he wont hear me on that. Even though the diet I had him on he lost 28# and was very healthy and properly nourished, and no blood sugar problems, and was able to reduce his insulin intake by over half...I am the one not concerned with his health. Now he has to continually take extra doses of insulin because of all of this crazy eating he does and his body is not getting the nourishment it needs.

Especially when he eats this crappy way and goes and spends 2 hours at the gym doing cardio and lifting weights. He wonders why he is dragging himself around by the time he gets off work. Why he is so tired he wants to go to bed at 7pm.

But he wont listen to me at all. Ugh, my frustration levels are going through the roof. I am dreading MC tonight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Heidi,

Sorry that I wasn't more clear. I was never suggesting you leave your kids with your H. I was thinking that you take the kids and go to your folks' for an overnighter and leave him completely alone (except for the recorders... ) and see what you can gather. You can tell him that your folks are incredibly worried about your emotional state and your physical well-being, since you are so terribly upset about what's happening in your life. You can say that your folks want you to come spend some time there, where they can take care of the kids and let you rest, while they pamper you a bit. That does two things -- it lets him to be alone to give you info about the A -- and it might make him feel a bit guilty about the postion that you are in, which he should be.

Talk to your parents and see what they think. And the eavesdropping experts here should be able to help you figure out the best way to set up the equipment.

ok, I still wouldnt be able to do it for a whole weekend, but I could maybe do it for a friday night. My daughter has ballet on saturdays and sunday school for my son and daughter. My parents live too far away for me to have to commute back to get them to those activities, and I have been making strong efforts to not disrupt their lives more than it already is.

If you could do an all-out effort to gather evidence--maybe a GPS unit in his car, as well-- you might get everything you need in one weekend. I know that you're trying to keep your kids' lives normal, but nothing is going to cause more chaos in their lives than their parents getting divorced, having to leave their home and having their dad continue ignoring them and acting like an idiot. I think missing the activities from one weekend is not going to matter in the larger scheme of things. And they may have fun spending some time with the grandparents too.

If your H knows he's going to have time alone to himself in the house, I bet the OW will even want to come over and check out where H lives. So, it's likely to yield huge results. And you sound like you really could use being pampered by someone and allowed to rest and regenerate. You've been through way too much already.

Another thought--if your H is not eating properly with diabetes and exercising without balancing his diet to match, that could be causing irrational behavior. Do you know his doctor well, where you could talke about your concerns? What's your H's blood sugar like right now?

I dont know what his blood sugar is he stopped testing.
He stopped wearing his seatbelt. He leaves so early and comes home so late that he hasnt even seen his kids since monday night when he saw them for an hour before they went to bed.

Tonight he will get to spend about an hour with them before its bedtime.

Yeah I am looking into the GPS right now, I found a place where I can rent one, Im waiting for the guy to call me back. And I already bought a digital voice recorder.

Thanks for the advice...Im planting the DVR in my car for this weekend, he seems to like to call and have conversations with her while I am in taking my daughter to ballet school. So Im just going to take extra long when I drop her off this time so he will converse with her more. And Ill also go next door to the bank to deposit his check so he has even longer to carry on a conversation with her, as opposed to my H who usually goes into the bank. Well hopefully this will yield something good.

Ill try for the granparent time next weekend. This weekend we have plans with his parents, and since I made other plans last weekend they would be really upset if we didnt get together this weekend, we usually see them every weekend. anyhow, i hope to get something good out of this.

Now I just have to hope for the best out of MC tonight. I dread it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Hello Heidi,

I haven't posted to your thread yet but I have been following along for the past few days.

You said earlier in this thread that you had been to MC once:

I know that you have another session set up for tonight.

My WH and I only went to a couple sessions ourselves and one thing that the MC pointed out that sticks in my mind is that she is a MARRIAGE counselor and that if both spouses weren't there to work on the marriage then she would not be of much help to us. In other words, the affair had to be over in order for a WS to be able to commit to the marriage and the BS . Of course my WH said it was over and at the time and probably believed that it was since it wasn't a secret anymore.

We went to the MC after the affair had already been exposed and at both of those sessions my WH gave the impression to both the MC and me that he really did want to work on it. I'm sure he believed that he did also.

He had said that what he'd hoped to get from MC was the tools that we needed to better our marriage. Unfortunately I had a couple more D-days after that. It lasted for a few more months.
I just wanted to say that after the experience of this, I have to agree our MC. We went to the sessions,and he was truly willing to go (he suggested it), but since his heart was still with OW, it didn't really help our marriage.

As I look back, it really did was give me more insight to the fact that he was not over OW. I realized that my marriage was not going to be fixed, no matter how many "tools" we had until he was over OW.

Now, a year later, a person tends to reflect back to the way things were and to see them for what they were. I was hanging on to any thread and to any hope I could find.

I think it is great that you are going to see the MC and I do think you should keep the appointment -- please don't think I am suggesting you cancel it!!!!
I just don't want you to expect to much out of it. What my WH said at those sessions were probably not actual lies but what he believed at the time. He never intended to cheat and had true hopes we could fix things.
He just could not get over OW.

So, with that said, please go to your session and take in what you can. At this time it is normal to take it all in and ponder over every word WS says.
There is a process to finding out, exposure, and recovery and right now you are in the middle of it all. Best of luck at getting through you session tonight. My prayers are with you!

Thank you so much for that, it was also my WH suggestion to go after a whole year of me suggesting to go.

I think some days that its his way of saying well I went, just so that he can have that and then leave me for OW anyhow, with no real intentions of the MC helping at all.

He even told the MC at our 1st session that 6 months was too long for him to commit to working on our marriage, and that he didnt think he could handle feeling the way he does for that long to see if things will get better.

Im going to still go to the MC tonight. I hope for the best, I hope for more insight. The optomist in me keeps praying for something in him to click, but the pesimist is loosing hope.

Its hard to keep getting up when he keeps pushing me down.

He cuddled with me last night for awhile, and then called me this morning like he used to and talked to me for like 10 minutes. Its like oooh I better makes some efforts quick cause we have MC tonight. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I hope you have a good pro-marriage counselor. I doubt that much will come from this and would expect that it will be more hurtful for you than helpful until he has ended all contact with the OW. At this point, your WH has no intention of doing that because he is still trying to convince you that he isn't in an A. He will probably lie to the counselor too. I would expect him to blame you for all of your marital problems and reiterate that he doesn't know if he wants to stay married. Or he loves you but is not in love with you. Try not to take it to heart.

yes in fact he does all of that for sure, I am the blame for everything, and certainly denies the OW, she still works at his office. He does say he doesnt know if he wants to be with me. Thats probably the one thing that he hasnt said to me "I love you but Im not in love with you" that he hasnt said.

He says how much he loves me and how much he will always love me. He tells me that he has loved me since the day we met. That he hopes I love him and hopes that he is good enough for me. But I suppose somewhere under the skin it probably means the same thing. Because without even taking a breath he will ask if we can be friends.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <shrug> i cant make heads or tails out of anything anymore.

It doesn't make sense because he wouldn't be threatening to DV if you don't sell the house by a set time.

I guess your parents didn't see anything this morning.

I hope that I didn't make you feel bad. You seem like such a wonderful person.

I'm still not sure that my WH is a FWH as my 3rd D-day happened on Sept 1st -- happened after months of no contact (as far as I know).

In my situation, I talked to OW on original D-day (and MANY times after ) and I happened to have a real nice (YUCK, it hurts to say that ) OW who honestly felt horrible for ruining our family .


She didn't want WH to contact her anymore. She's let me know when he has contacted her and he kind of stalked her for a time after several months of no contact. He watched her from the bike path outside her office, when she had a cigarette outside her work and also emailed her under a different name.. I know that sounds horrible and why would I want to be with my WH anymore, but all in all he really is a wonderful person and we are trying to get us through that.

OW is now married -- I dont think my WH knows that but I do, from my "sources". I never knew Ow before this, she was not a friend of the family, just a woman he dealt with casually through his work for about 6 years. It's amazing what sources you can find when you need to.

It is amazing what an internet search will tell you. I have even found pictures of OW on the internet once I found out the info about her BF and I was quite surprised to see that she is not a BABE that i'd imagined, but I'm sure my WH feels otherswise, that she is a babe.....

My son saw the picture of her with up on the computer screen and he said, "mom, when did you catch that big fish?" Well, it wasn't me, it was OW who caught that big fish - a picture from two years ago, when her hair was my color.. I am not 100% sure it is a picture of her but I am 99 % sure. It is definitely her BF, now H, and he is a real nice looking guy. Maybe he was out fishing with an OW too, who knows! Funny that in those picture that I have, OW looks an awful lot like me. She is also 5 years younger, not that it makes a difference, but when my son saw the picture he thought it was me in my younger days (lol).

I have also not posted on this thread before, but have been following your story. I just wanted to let you know that each time I read one of your posts, I say a silent prayer for you and your beautiful children--and I'm sure there are many others out there like me--just pulling for you. You and your kids are absolutely going to make it, and if your WH makes it along with you, he is one lucky guy. Keep your chin up.

Hugs,
-CSJ
BS (me) 34
FWH 31
DD, 4; DD 20 mo.
PA 10/04-10/05
DDay 11/17/05