BR, you responded to me about a month ago as I was grumbling about my problem with H's stock trading. (For anybody who wants to get the story, I don't know how to link to it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> so you can click on my name and view earlier posts)

I really appreciate the time you took to help me and it really has been sinking in. I think about it all the time. It was about the time of that thread that I was finally able to blow my stack...let off some major steam...by yelling at my BIL. He is going through a divorce and my SIL is in an affair, post-separation, but as we know, still an affair. Very painful stuff. All the garbage associated with their divorce/infidelity/child really was bringing out the painful feelings for me and I couldn't say how I really felt all the time about cheating scoundrels because of my H.

So, when he told me of another incident with his STBXW, I just lost it. I told him all about the trading and how it made me feel, but first I asked him how he viewed it. And, just like with the alcoholism, others have a very different view from the outside. He said H has always been pretty intense when he finds something he likes (BIL is H's brother) and named all of the things that I have called addictions in recent years.

I have really quit the LB's now, and just trying to focus on me. It is working quite well! I have not made it to a meeting yet, as I was quite busy with Christmas and company all of December.

So, here are a few things I have been wondering. I read your thread about detaching with love, and you responded to LM that your husband is emotionally neglectful. How do you live with that? Mine is also, and that is what I am having trouble with. How can you have your needs met by someone that is emotionally absent?

Does that leave you vulnerable? I feel vulnerable because of it. I have told my husband that too. Over his head.

A big problem I have right now is respect. I do not feel respect towards him. It is very hard for me to feel warm and fuzzy toward him as he is sitting in his robe at 2:00 in the afternoon after having done nothing but trade all day. I have been floating along pretty well with my non-LB ways and attitude until the day before yesterday, when he said something about how he'll make X amount of money for me in the next 2 months so I won't have to worry about the bank account running dry. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I had expressed concern that we have enough money to last till the end of Feb and that is all!

I realized again how big the fantasy is for him. The reality is way different than what he said, based on results. He has been at this for 7+ years and has never once contributed to the payment of the bills or expenses with it. Never. And yet somehow he is gonna make enough to keep us going in the next 2 months. (He was going to write me a check for his gains a few weeks ago but didn't have the right checks for that account. Had to order them. Now that they are here, the gain is not in the account so he is not talking about the check anymore. Nothing new, no surprise. Am I disappointed? Yes. Did I expect it to go that way? Yes.)

He has said that he wants us to just consider it his job. Why can't you just accept that this is what I do for a living? I'd love to say, "Well, if this was like a job, you would bring home, like, a paycheck" Probably not very nice.


So, how do I live with him and not LB him, when I feel almost disgusted that he is like this? That I don't feel respect for him? I am grateful that he does provide for us, and I haven't had to work for 20 years.

Right now I feel like he has me right where he wants me. He has put me in my place and he is one happy camper. I am not nagging him or demanding anything. He is a happy trader. I don't challenge any of his trading habits and/or strategies at all anymore. I just let him ramble on and don't believe a word he says. Occasionally I will remark "you made that rule for yourself a long time ago...you talked yourself out of it then...you don't listen to yourself very well..." and it is all very lighthearted and laughable. Just a little soemthing to show him I notice when he doesn't keep his own rules.

So, I am wondering how do deal with this lack of respect issue and how on earth do you live with emotional neglect? I don't want to.

Leaving for me right now is not an option, as my niece is depending on us a bit as the stable ones and my son is still in school...we are all dealing with the impending divorce of BIL and SIL, so if I up and bail out, a lot of damage will be done.

Whew, I'm afraid this has become rather long. If you made it this far, Thanks!

Let me know what you think.

drop all your expectations that he will change until he is so uncomfortable with his choices that he has to change ...

if you stay, as you say you will, resolve to make the best of a less than satisfactory situation

does he help with domestic chores? if not, start by asking him to do one simple thing every day .... and if he completes your request, thank him. If he does not complete your request, ask him again when you get home , "Honey, you forgot to do XXX. Would you do that now please? Thanks" No attitude of disappointment on your part.

Every day offer him a fresh opportunity to help you ... but in all likelyhood, he will need specific direct and crystal clear instructions.

OK with you?

He is underdeveloped in some areas, and you have long compensated for his shortcomings. You helped him become the man he is today, in a weird way ....

Pep, you never cease to amaze me.

I know my expectations are up there. I don't know how to drop my expectations...or how doing so will make him uncomfortable.

I think I am making the best of a less than perfect situation.

He only helps with dishes sporadically. Acts like he is King dishwasher, but only does them sometimes, in the morning if it is a real light dose. I always thank him for whatever it is and I don't expect it at all...might be let down if I expect.

I have a real hard time with disappointment....it shows all over me...I haven't mastered that one yet. And I have a hard time understanding how to deal with it because I am usually disappointed because it is something HE said he was going to do, not something I asked of him. I just have a hard time when he doesn't keep his word.

And I get what you mean that I helped make this monster.

Thanks for the help...keep it coming...I need it!

He may not be deliberately breaking his word ... he may have adult ADD ... many really intelligent people can only focus on one thing .... Has he ever been tested?

PS

He's not a monster

He a human being with frailties, shortcomings, AND strengths.

Play to his strengths.

Pep, I know he is not a monster. I was using the word lightly and with humor...hard to convey that in words.

I would agree that he is not breaking his word deliberately. I have wondered about ADD. I have wondered about a lot of things. A few I have mentioned to him, some lovingly,some not and he had never considered any of it. Denies anything could be wrong with him. So, I haven't looked into the ADD thing as I feel it would only be another exercise in frustration for me. Right now he had an obvious and painful hip "thing" and has been threatening to go to the Chiropractor for weeks. He hasn't stopped trading long enough to make and appointment. Last time I made an appt. for him after he was complaining about something hurting he read me the riot act. Decided I won't do that again.

You say "Play to his strengths". I'm not sure how, or even what they are. I tend to only see faults. Something I have really had to work on and am trying real hard. I think I have made real good progress.

Sugar -if I might step in. I have been asked to go on trips one to 3 day vacations by my H. Nothing ever happens -lets go out on our boat ect. I get all excited make plans ect. Nothing ever happens -now I just say sure thats nice and do no planning. This is 3 yrs of this stuff. I don't know what I will do if he really means to follow thru? I have learned to say ok sounds good and let it roll off my back. Of course the other side is when he says ready to go? I have to say give me a minute and dash. Happened once I can remember. I think he at times really wants to do things that are nice and not to expensive but when push comes to shove just can't do it like he used to. Maybe it is his age.

Just wanted to add my two cents....

As I read your posts it lead me to think that your H is dealing with a gambling addiction. Gambling addictions can manifest themselves in the trading industry.

Where is he getting this money that he is trading with? Is it household money...the money that you EARN? I would put a halt to that right now. He would no longer have access to the money that it takes to keep a roof over your head...fed...clothed...and all the other basic NECESSITIES of life. I don't think he should be allowed to drive you to the poor house all in the name of this so called "trading" (gambling).

The twelve step program for GA (Gamblers Anonymous) includes trading stocks and bonds. It is a NO NO.

His statement about making a lot of money in 2 months is part of the gambler's dream. They need to hold on to the hope that at anytime they will hit the BIG ONE...it's part of that rush.

You describe him physically and I see a gambler...in a gambling stupor.

Again, it is just my opinion but I would not allow access to household monies for his gambling.

committed

I think this is likely.

Realtor
How do you keep from bbeing disappointed? I am learning to just let things roll, but I can't help but be disappointed sometimes. And when he does it to the kids, oh boy. I can't stand that!

CandL and Pep,
There is no doubt in my mind that this is a 100% gambling addiction. He absolutely denies that. Case closed. Now I just try to get along. Where does he get the money? Well, we have a seasonal business and at the end we have accumulated money to make it through the winter. Sometimes he has used some of that. We have drained our retirement (he says HIS retirement) to put in to the business, of course he wants to set aside some for trading. There have been many of those kind of additions to his account. He is furhter behind than ahead. Hence my frustration. When we run out of money at the end of Feb, then what? No doubt he will find a job as always but he always waits until the last damn minute!! I sweat and stew over finances and then he swoops in at the end and gets some money. I hate it.

I fully understand that his actions are in hopes of the "big one". Did I mention he is a recovering alcoholic of 16 years? So I am not new to this addiction behavior and I realize that if one is susceptible to one addiction, another is very possible without the proper boundaries. Still, nothing Ican do about it. Frustrating.

I have told him I will not agree to putting anymore money in his trading account. He may do it anyway. But I will not agree to it. One time he wanted to buy a stock from a guy who had called him unsolicited. He wanted to invest x amount. I told him I will not agree to it. He can get verbal and nasty so this was a new approach for me. He said he really wanted to do it. He was the breadwinner and he was going to make this purchase. I did not get mad, or try to stop him but I was clear that I did not agree that we should do it. It lost a lot of money. I never held it over his head. It was very obvious it was a bad decision.

CandL-When you say you see him in a stupor, it is quite the opposite. He is usually so excited and happy, sometimes bouncing off the walls...irritating.

Thanks for all your input...it is helping.

Contact an attorney to see about legally separating your money from H's money ... then devise a plan where he pays half the household expenses and you pay the other half.

Cancel credit cards that are in both your names. Get a credit card for emergencies with just your name.

Do you have a separate savings account or checking account?

Pep,
I thought about taking a sizable chunk out a few months ago just in case I wanted to leave. I have watched and listened to H and BIL in regards to SIL's attempts to get half the house and all the divorce chatter. I do not want to be waiting on money while things get settled. I decided not to do it as I know it would be viewed as a hostile move, not exactly MB material.

And that confuses me. MB vs. addiction. And how Bramblerose handles her situation. I can't fathom it.

I do not have separate bank accounts. I can't pay any bills on my own. I don't work besides in our business and it is joint money. I am half owner. I was just thinking about the credit card thing. We have 2 with balances, and they are both in my name. I am working very hard to pay them off completely so that my credit is not ruined if we separate.

We should have a real good year this year if anything goes according to plan. I will be looking to set aside some money then, while we have an active income.

Committedandlovingit ~ you are one smart cookie.

Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I just trained myself to think that was a nice thought -as far as the kids you just tell them he means well but really can't afford to -he is just dreaming.

hey...just to let you know I read this and I'll respond later.

Ok, instead of some long post...

How about I ask you this:

If you are hungry for bread and milk...do you keep going back to the hardware store to purchase it? Do you get angry and frustrated and complain to the power tools person that you are hungry? Do you expect bread and milk to suddenly appear and be served?

Accepting that the bread and milk will not appear at the hardware store is only the first step.

The next step is to actually go to the grocery store for bread and milk.

Well, I am feeling a little dense...but I'm listening.

I promise to pay real close attention if you will elaborate.
Thanke!

Aren't you trying to get ENs (bread and milk) from an addict (hardware store)?

When I stopped demanding bread and milk from the power tools counter where it was not available, and started looking for it at the grocery store were it was available, I wasn't starving anymore.

In other words....my husband is who he is. He can't meet all of my needs as I need him to. It's not OK. But it is what it is. I get my needs met in other ways in different parts of my life. There is more to my life than revolving around my husband as the central figure - I have beautiful wonderful children, a good job, and interesting friends.

Just because he can't meet my needs doesnt mean I have to sit around moping and miserable - or starving/craving what I don't get from him.

CandL-When you say you see him in a stupor, it is quite the opposite. He is usually so excited and happy, sometimes bouncing off the walls...irritating.



That is what I meant by drunken stupor. He doesn't even bother to get out of his robe. More than likely he is looking quite disheveled too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

I think that you should take whatever money is left in your account and pay off the 2 credit cards that you have. You can use those credit cards for living expenses month to month. When money comes in...immediately apply it to the new balances on the credit cards.

Those credit cards are in your name and you are the only user...so he cannot get to that money.

If it forces him to look for gainful employment where the dress code isn't a "robe" so be it. He can use that money to throw away...but not before he contributed his share to the necessities of life.

Susan,

Thank you for the compliment. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You aren't lacking in the smarts department yourself!

committed

BR, thanks for the explanation. I almost understood but not quite. Now I do.

I'm not sure I am trying to get my needs met by my H. I realize he is not capable. The hard part is that it is his choice to not meet my needs. He chooses (by not recognizing addiction) to trade and talk about stocks all the frickin time. I will give you an example from a few minutes ago. I told him about something my mom told me over the phone yesterday about my dad. I told H all about it, moms concerns, my confusion and worries. And then I was done. Silence. He said, and I quote, "Well, the good news is 2 of my stocks are at 52 week highs". I just got up and left the house.

Now why did I even bother to tell him? Because he is the only one I have to talk to about my parents, I don't have a friend that I can talk to about this stuff (it used to be SIL, but she is now a WW). And, sometimes he listens and maybe even responds. This leaves me feeling vulnerable to the next available listener or just not saying anything to anybody and holding it in. I don't want to hold it in.

And, I also have wonderful kids. One is at college and one is working across the state 7 days on/7days off and the other is a sophomore in HS. The older 2 are doing their own thing and I have less and less daily interaction with them. I don't have a job outside the home and if I go get one it would have to be part time and temporary as our business will get going in the spring. I have decided that my time is more valuable here at home for the moment. But, like you, I reserve the right to change my mind. When I told my son last week that I was going to check on a job (and I did) he said "mommy, are you going to divorce daddy?" They all are paranoid of that because we separated 4 years ago after d-day. Now, when the road gets rocky, they ask me that. They don't know about the A 4 years ago, so they don't know the severity of the infraction at that time. They only know we were fighting and unhappy. So, if we are fighting they fear the same result, magnified by the fact that BIL/SIL are going towards the big D.

CandL,
I get what you mean now. Yes it is rather unsightly, unbathed, giddy, got nothing done, thinking he is king of the world.

Those credit cards are in my name as primary, but he is an authorized user. One is for personal, one is for business.

Paying off the credit cards/using for living expenses won't work. This is business money with business expenses/debt. I don't really have the liberty to do that. Winter in these parts doesn't end for a very long time. And, like I said, we will be lucky to make mid-March with these funds if nothing drastic happens. So, I need to be careful. He is not going to get this money for trading. I would take it then. He knows that is not an option.

The employment thing is showing positive signs the last few days. His brother is out doing all the leg work, got a job, and now H will do his end of the deal and get equipment put together on this end. This is a good opportunity for the long term and fits in with our seasonal business. I ain't holding my breath, but there is a little movement in the right direction.