I would like to know when & how are the best time to define my boundaries. How do you set the boundaries without LB.


Cliff

Hi CLiff,

First you have to identify what they are for you,personally.It could be something as "simple" as you will not tolerate smoking or being with someone who smokes.Or you will not tolerate disrespectful acts such as physical abuse or swearing,etc.

Then you decide how you would handle someone who breaks those bondaries you have.In most cases I would say that they have a chance to redeem themselves or then they lose the friendship and no longer can contact you.Some people might feel comfortable with giving more than one chance to make up for any transgressions.Giving repeated chances is not something I ascribe to.

I think in order for the boundaries to be upheld you have to have consequences in mind for those that break them.For example,repeated contact with the homewrecker was a boundary I had with my WH.I made this clear to him,he had a chance to make things right,he KNEW it was his last chance and that I would D him if I found anymore evidence and he went ahead anyway.It was one of the hardest things to do: not give him just one more chance.But,I respected myself too much enough to let him keep walking over me and wondering if he would ever be truthful.I wasn't willing to keep going through the same he** over and over.I still loved my WH but I was not willing to be a participant in his trampling of my worth.Does this make sense?

It's not an LB to stand up for what you believe is right.You don't have to disrespect anyone else either to uphold those beliefs and values.Your personal boundaries are there forever if they are clear to you.

O

A boundary is telling a person what you will do if they violate your boundary. It is NOT telling them what they must do. You can't make them do anything.

I established a boundary of spend 15 hours per week with me or move out. He said I was controlling him. I said I wasn't. I had decided not to cope with a marriage of neglect. I was not trying to convince him or coerce him to spend 15 hours per week with me. I was telling him the consequences of what would happen if he did not spend the 15 hours with me.

It's probably not the best time, but I set the boundary when I got good and fed up.

Cherished

OK so the main boundary Im talking about is one of commitment to working on the relationship obviously the consequence is divorce. she is still in some withdrawal & is very angry, at the OM for breaking things off & at me because I have made a commitment to our relationship. She still will not talk about our relationship & thinks everything is OK because we are being nice to each other. She likes to sweep things under the rug & pretend they never happened.

Here is an example to how oblivious she can be, these last couple of months have really taking there toll on me, the other night we went to visit her father in the hospital & I had stepped out to get a magazine for him to help pass the time when I got back he was in the restroom & my wife told me that while I was gone her dad had asked if I was OK that I looked really tired, at this point she agreed with what her dad had said & had asked me why I looked so tired, How could she not realise that what she was putting me through was taking a toll on me?

Back to my question how long do I wait to set my boundaries about what needs to happen towards the repair of our relationship?

Read the book Boundries in Marriage. It will answer some of your questions about boundries. Reading that book was one of the things that gave me the strength to be able to start setting some boundries.

You can not set a boundary for anyone else but yourself...

you can not force someone else to work on a marriage..

you are much greater served to release her and yourself from that idea and work only on yourself...

making changes in your marriage that serve it and you and her...

too many people approach this with frustrating themselves in to self indignant pain and demands...

you need to release ALL expectations of her doin A N Y T H I N G.....and I do mean anything...

infact the more you free yourself from worry a rats behind what she is doing...the more you will be energized to make the changes you want....

then you set your boundary as your time limit....
you should work on your marriage releasing her of any responsibility of doing a thing.....and set a time limit...and that time limit is your boundary....and you don't tell her your time limit...
you just do

each day..
doing and making and serving the marriage...with the goal being that she has full glimpses in to how this marriage can and should be...and sees someone who offers light and hope and belief in her ability to be a good good person and loved.....
and she either...

1. decides to join in on the rebuilding...
2. or you have your answer to the question is she willing to try with never asking it..

expecting someone else to enthusiastically work on the marriage will never ever work...
it is the same old tit for tat

show a new way
a way never even imagined...
a loving humble way....
and WS who are really processing what they have done...will have the freedom to bring their burdon to you and will trust you enough to be vulnerable and sorry.....

FWS are very very hurt
they don't trust their own judgements and thoughts...
they are confused
they are sad
and they are usually deep inside somewhere horrified by the person they have become...

they don't have much to offer...so standing in front of them demanding change and commitment from them can be futile....if they aren't there yet...

recovery is a great act of compassion and humility..move slowly...
she is very wounded as are you....
and you can not get water from a stone..

you want her to heal you...yet she herself is not healed and forcing a false healing from her to you will feel good at first in the empty moments....and then be gone...and empty...

WS spent a lot of time disconnecting from their spouses to justify their affair...
they don't immediately reconnect once it ends...
and better served are BS that show compassion and love even at times from a slight distance...giving them breathing room and time to process then those that stand before them and demand change...

it is unfortunately the nature of the beast

ARK

I guess my perspective is that I got tired of giving up expectations and got tired of not being on his priority list and gave him an ultimatum to spend 15 hours per week with me or move out. But you have to be so fed up and so at the end of being able to cope that you would prefer separation and divorce to how you are living now.

Cherished

Ark,

I understand what you are saying here, but shouldn't the WS be taking some responsibility for working on the M? My H went with me to MC, and has told me that he would take the EN and LB questionnaires. But we have not done these because I have not pushed him on it. When I bring it up, he says we will do it, but then we get too busy with the kids and everything else comes before actually sitting down and doing it.

He says that his actions speak louder than words, and that he needs to prove his commitment to me with his actions. I say that is true, but that he needs to act on the MB so that we can begin communicating better. I am working on myself and have let ALOT of things go without LBs.

My position has been since D-Day that I need to believe he is truly working on the M by going to MC or by reading the MB plan. Shouldn't I be able to push him on this without it turning into an LB??

cnam says she is in withdrawal which is different than someone going to counseling etc...

no excuses with the kiddies on the questionairre...

MAKE TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!

run the kids wild...
put them to bed...
spend time together...

and focus on you TWO!!

ARK

Hi Ark,

Ah, withdrawal... I understand now. That makes sense.

My H just called me to say that he will have the MB info out ready and waiting for us. So, we will be doing it tonight. No more excuses!!

Ark,
I really appreciated your comments about boundaries! It really made sense to me at a time almost nothing does...
thank you!

Hey ARK
I read what you wrote about boundries and thank-you, I really needed to read it tonight, funny how those things happen.

HI ARK & everyone, I understand what you are saying about the boundaries & setting a time limit for myself but how do you decide what is a fair time limit. I have made a lot of changes which she admits but she does not believe the are genuine or for the long term.

As far as the withdrawal its an assumption on my part because of the way she still reacts to me with anger & contempt, I think she is withdrawing even more from me if that's possible, I feel like she is just here because its easier for her. she was very withdrawn & depressed for about 6 week after NC, than she seemed to be in better spirits & we are being nice to each other but arent really talking about that much.

At what point do I stop blaming it on withdrawal & when shoud I start to see her taking some responsibility for working on the M. Do I just set my time limit & if it expires move on? As I said earlier how do I decide on a fair time limit? Im not expecting a major break through or change I just want to know that Im here for a reason & if she is not willing to contribute than whats the point.

I could really use some more help here even if its just 2x4 to clear my head or encouragement to stay on track, Im really trying to learn but its starting to take its tool on me emotionally.

Cliff

This is a lovely post, and helpful for me, too. Thanks Ark!
It is so difficult having gone through the turmoil of being the BS ... not having our own ENs being met, continuing to give and heal ... running on empty. Boundaries, rewarding oneself for deeds well done and goals met, taking care of oneself, an understanding support group... these things are important now.

At what point do I stop blaming it on withdrawal & when shoud I start to see her taking some responsibility for working on the M. Do I just set my time limit & if it expires move on?

what are the other alternitives..

force her in to recovery...
it will be doomed...

lead with hope..
lead with belief in her ability to change
lead with not power struggling her insane outer blame routine...

and then remove yourself from her chaos once you know you have acted with grace and conviction that life can be good...again...

and even then you don't move on..
you gently lay the balls in her court....
and wait and watch...

and she will never ever ever be able to say you forced or controlled her...

you just said that you have decided that you can not and will not live this way anymore...

ARK

Thank you for your input ARK , I have been doing as you suggest I guess Im just getting impatient. I tend to vent her so hopefully I don't make the mistakes with her. waiting is a very tough thing to do when you have no support, I get most of my encouragement from these boards & my IC.

Thank you once again.

Cliff

I have been reading these boards for a very long time, and I see in most instances one common thread among BS's, and that is the codependant traits of the BS's. The struggle with boundries issues is a very common one among us. Guess I should not speak for any BS's here, but I will admit that I have alot of work to do in that area. And since I have been reading about the problem in marriage with boundries and codenpendancy, I can see that this business w A's is like dealing with any addiction. (Harley's have made it very clear that A's ARE USUALLY an addiction) And when a BS deals with an A or an addiction it really is the same principal as dealing with an alcoholic or a drug addict. Thru the pain of watching the WS betray you for an affair partner, (just as they might betray you for another drug of choice) the BS must detach with love. Must start to look at themselves as part of the problem by not setting boundries, not taking care of themselves, and feeding into the A by "hanging on", covering up, (not exposing) and trying in vain to "fix" the addicts problem. It is the same thing as the wife or husband of an alcoholic goes thru.
The problem with an A is the problem of both the BS and the WS, however, the only way a BS can even begin to "fix" anything is by "fixing" themselves. Getting healthy, developing healthy self esteem, setting healthy "boundries" that they are not forcing on anyone. The boundries are for the good of the BS.....and ultimately for the good of the WS MAYBE. Like an alcoholic, sometimes they see the light of day, and sometimes they don't. EITHER WAY THE BS IS HEALTHIER AND HAPPIER WITH THEMSELVES, AND ULTIMATELY ONE WAY OR THE OTHER THE BS BEGINS TO REALIZE THAT THEY ARE WORTHY OF HAPPINESS, AND WORTHY OF LOYALTY, AND THEY BEGIN VERY SLOWLY TO REALIZE THAT THEY ARE HAPPY WITH THEMSELVES. And though it is a heartbreak to "loose" the WS to the OP,(just as it is a heartbreak to "loose" their spouse to the bottle or to drugs) they are in a much better position to "fly on their own". Their boundries are set in place, they are, because of this, no longer willing to "go down with the ship".

I truly believe that the "addict" (WS) had addictive tendancies all along, maybe they were not addicted to drugs or alcohol, and maybe they were but their addictive nature got them into trouble with the A in the first place. No, they did not "choose" to have the A but the "drug" was too powerful for the addict to withstand. I also believe that the BS has codependant tendancies right from the getgo. (boundry problems, caretaking problems, "loosing" themselves in their spouse) Somehow I am seeing this "tendancy" over and over again on these boards.
MAYBE THE WS'S WERE NOT HAVING THEIR EN'S MET BY THE BS BUT INSTEAD OF BEING RESPONSIBLE AND INSTEAD OF WORKING THRU THE PROBLEM WITH THEIR SPOUSE, THEY STUMBLED UPON THE "DRUG" TO FIX THE PROBLEM...ADDICTS ARE IRRESPONSIBLE BY NATURE. And just as in any other addiction, they expect the BS to "hang in there" with them even in the depth of the addiction. They lie, manipulate, and control just as any other addict, for as long as the "enabler" (BS) allows it to go on.

Therefore, the job of the BS is to start taking care of themselves. Detach......Detach with love but DETACH!!!! BS's cannot control the addicts drug abuse or drug of choice. Set boundries as to what YOU want those boundries to be. What feels right for YOU. Trust yourself. Trust your feelings. YOU ARE WORTHY OF RESPECT AND LOYALTY AND LOVE!!!!! PERIOD!!!! AND IF THE WS DOES NOT RESPOND, THEN THE WAYWARD SPOUSE DOES NOT RESPOND.........TIME TO MOVE ON.
YES IT IS SAD, YES THE WS IS GOING TO SUFFER, AND YES THEY PROBABLY ARE SUFFERING A GREAT DEAL NOT WISHING TO BE ADDICTED, BUT THEY MUST COME TO THEIR BOTTOM AND MAKE A CHOICE, THIS IS NOT THE JOB OF THE BS.

Yes, set a time limit, but set a time limit WITHIN THE BOUNDRIES THAT YOU ARE COMFORTABLE WITH, NOT WHAT'S COMFORTABLE FOR THE WS!!!!!!!!!! THEY ARE YOUR BOUNDRIES!!!! THEY ARE NOT THE BOUNDRIES OF THE WS'S!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to rant....just my 2 c's on the addiction analogy.

Blessings,
Tare