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You said this to me: Wayward Spouses DO HORRIBLE THINGS......WHY DO YOU ALWAYS FEEL A NEED TO QUALIFY THEIR ACTIONS....ALWAYS....?
Your continued liberal use of the "addiction" theory and framing everything a WS DOES as being tied to this is now bordering on pure lunacy. Pure and unadulaterated delusion. The GENERALIZED statements that you make about me are just not true. The namecalling is also not called for. You have a prejudicial viewpoint of me. So what's the use of me answering your questions. I would not stoop to talking to you at the level at which you are choosing to talk to me. I wish your supporters would help me understand how this is acceptable. So why should I answer your questions. It seems that whatever I say will be framed in the prejudicial light in which you view me.
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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just want to say that, despite your flowery language, you basically called me "CRAZY"...
I find your statements to be extremely offensive...
I assume you already know that but I needed to say this out loud...
Given your previous ASSUMPTIONS AND GENERALIZATIONS about me, I would think that you are ASSUMING that I am upset because I am expressing my discontent about this...
This is being typed with calmness and conviction... which behaviorally is beyond the capacity of a lunatic..with delusions...
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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posted by lemon on eav's thread [color:"red"] lemon quoted Mimi [/color] "I still see DENIAL regarding how AWFUL a WS can be..."
[color:"red"] then lemon''s comments
[/color]
??????????
I don't think anyone is in an DENIAL of how awful a WS can be. What is your point with constantly reaffirming this...WE ALL AGREE.
Wayward Spouses DO HORRIBLE THINGS......WHY DO YOU ALWAYS FEEL A NEED TO QUALIFY THEIR ACTIONS....ALWAYS....?
[color:"red"]Your continued liberal use of the "addiction" theory and framing everything a WS DOES as being tied to this is now bordering on pure lunacy. Pure and unadulaterated delusion. [/color]
What the issue is (with me at least) is the analogy that the Dogs are like children.
OK, would you trust that it was a "bluff" that a Wayward Spouse was threatning to hit a child (after he has done it once) or that he was "ignoring" him or that he was threatning to kidnap him. MIMI please answer this question.
If your WH abused your son (EVEN ONCE) and then threatened to do it again..would you take any chance with this...even if you thought is was a "bluff"? Would you?
Mimi, honestly I think you are the perfect person to be advising Eav. I think your advice and view of her situation is spot on. I think the rest of us providing opinions may just be "confusing her".
I have seen a very interesting trend here.
"ONLY give me opinions that I want to hear" otherwise you aren't being "supportive"...
YOu want this......you got it.
Fair enough. posted by mimi I don't think it's OK for Lemonman to call me a lunatic and delusional while referring to your WS as being a BULLY...
That seems hypocritical...
I'm sorry, Eav...
I don't need this...
I've been expressing my opinion in my attempt to help YOU..
I have not directed any painful remarks towards others...
I just don't need this sort of thing in my life...
I guess LM calls himself being helpful to you but it is HURTFUL to me to be called names that do not fit at all with who I really am... posted by lemon on another thread just last night You NO DOUBT would/will get a completely different response from others who may believe that your WH actions are based on an [color:"yellow"] "addiction" [/color] to the OW.....maybe <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />....you should realize that...there are others who don't believe in the concept of "co-dependency" (for which you are undoubtedly a practioner of) and will actually argue FOR that in a marriage.....I am not saying that is "right" or "wrong"...just stating what has been said. posted by eav avoiding angry outbursts and making disrespectful judgments is something that i believe should not just be saved for you relationship with your spouse but also applied to everyone that you interact with.
I wonder, if you only practice this belief in parts of your life with certain people....how successful are you really being with those people because then it is not a way of life....
i believe that i have come far with this but i have miles to go before i am where i want to be
i'm sure that often my "honest" feelings that i share with people who have used angry outbursts or disrespectful judgements with me (not just disagreed with me)are not worded in such a nice way either
I have read many posts by mimi...on many threads....and i agree with you completely she is one of the VERY LAST people who anyone should be saying unkind things about because from what I have read, she DOES avoid these kinds of things even if you disagree with her....
if you doubt this...go back and read what she wrote to me just this morning... [color:"red"]especially about lemonman's comments about her... [/color]
they were absolutley uncalled for and they were ment to hurt her...from her words you can tell that they succeeded to do just that...and they were ment to teach others a lesson by ridiculing her...
[color:"yellow"] how sad that lemon thinks this is helpful to anyone..........how sad that ANYONE would be unkind to someone who comes here for no purpose other than to give to others as others gave to her..in the hopes that her help might in some way repay the gift that she must believe that she was given by people at this site [/color]
[color:"red"] and Mimi STILL did not respond in a hurtful, anrgy, or judgmental way did she????
[/color] posted on eav's thread A note to Mimi - you are an inspiration to many on this board. You saved your marriage and give great advice in a caring way whether you agree or disagree with what the person posting is doing or saying. [color:"red"]so lemon i ask you? why are you here? it is clear to me and i have read others posts saying the same thing, and you even say so yourself.....that you do not believe in many (or any??) of the harley's beliefs or plans. SO why are you here? Who are YOU helping with you judgmental and angy, not to mention sarcastic, comments??? I for one would appreciate you not responding on my thread anymore. I am here, as are others, because we DO believe in and support the harley's plans and beliefs. That is what we expect support with when we come to this site.....THAT is why we are here. maybe you need to figure out what it is you are really getting out of hurting instead of helping. go back and re-read your own posts to me and others and see how many, if any, people you have helped. and might i suggest that as you read your own posts, you look for angry and rude outbursts and disrespectful judgments...they will be easy to find...and then in your spare time....go back and read what others...even the "wise ones here" think about what you post to people who are in need of support......and ask your self....WHY ARE YOU HERE??? [color:"yellow"]IS IT TO PROVIDE SUPPORT AND HELP PEOPLE WITH THIER DESIRE TO RECOVER FROM AN AFFAIR OR RESTORE THIER MARRAIGE BASED UPON THE HARLEY'S BELIEFS AND PLANS??? BELIEFS AND PLANS BASED UPON THEIR THEORY THAT AN AFFAIR IS AN ADDICTION????? [/color] in my opinion...(and i wonder how many people agree)the answer to that is no! so then lemon....why ARE you here?[/color]
Last edited by eav1967; 01/09/06 10:03 AM.
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This is being typed with calmness and conviction... which behaviorally is beyond the capacity of a lunatic..with delusions... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I have never carried a tag line... but THIS may be it.... (hands off pep)!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> I'm gonna try it on Mr. Ark first.... sorry you may return to previously scheduled programming ARK <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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I have to say: Wow Mimi! I'm proud of you girl. You've come a long way. Good to see you express your feelings in this way. I remember the time you would have just made an *exit*. Susan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Money can buy you a fine dog, but only love can make him wag his tail.
~ Kinky Friedman
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Yep...
Lemonman has helped me more than he may know...
I wish you guys could have heard how ASSERTIVE I was with my H regarding a disagreement we had yesterday...
After my calm, collected yet forceful comments to him this morning prior to leaving, he made sure to call me this morning at the office..light and cheery...apologetic...LOVING...
In the past, I would have been hesitant about expressing my discontent to him...CONFLICT AVOIDANCE...YUK.....
SO THANKS MBers...
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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"Duke it out" Mimi .... it's excellent training and challenges you to self soothe during a heated discussion, when in your past would have run away. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
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I've got $5 on Mimi...knock-out in the first round. Now...where is that Mr. Lemonaide guy? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Georgia
Last edited by Formerly G.G.; 01/09/06 10:53 AM.
Formerly G.G. and Jeb
Me: BS 50
She: xW 50
Jeb: Mini Schnauzer
Married: 29 yrs
Children: MM25, MM23
Plan B - 12/06/04
Divorced - 11/17/05
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eav ....you said: so lemon i ask you? why are you here? it is clear to me and i have read others posts saying the same thing, and you even say so yourself.....that you do not believe in many (or any??) of the harley's beliefs or plans. SO why are you here? Who are YOU helping with you judgmental and angy, not to mention sarcastic, comments??? Lemonman is here to give and take... like everyone else who comes here. And even the OW/OM who might occasionally pop up here to snipe at MB concepts, and even the former posters who return under a pseudoname after running themselves off the board .... everyone touches the rest of us in a special way ... either to challenge us to stand up for ourselves, or challenges us to re-examine our rage, or invites us to come up with new ways to express ourselves in a disagreement. What lemonman gets out of this board is equal to what he puts into it. Know what I mean? He pushes, he gets a push in return. And, maybe getting pushed back will cause some relationship connection to click into place for him <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ya never know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Somedays I ask myself why i am still here after all this time .... reminds me of the old Woody Allen joke about the man who went to a psychiatrist and said: [b]"DOC, ya gotta help me. My brother thinks he's a chicken." The Doc says: "Well, why don't you bring him to see me. It may take a few weeks to convince him that he's not a chicken." The man says: "But DOC, you don't understand !!! I need the eggs." [color:"purple"] We're all here because we need the eggs !!!! [/color]
Last edited by Pepperband; 01/09/06 11:11 AM.
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I have to defend Lemmonman here a bit.
I can remember a time when quite a few people were on him about not giving his marriage another chance. He took what he could handle and he would not be btreyed again. Plain and simple! He gave his wife another chance and her second betrayal was a deal breaker.
I see people on here that go through dday after dday and continue to be betrayed, and want more advice on what to do. What price are they willing to pay to have a marriage like this. I am sure it does nothing but frustrate him to no end.
The word addiction is thrown around here quite often. Reread Dr. Harley's comments again. He himself states that not all affairs are addictions.
People need to start taking the middle ground. There are addictions and there are rotten, nasty WW spouses as well.
Look at Cherished for one minute. Her husband has nearly killed her before. Broken bones and a cracked skull. For God's sake when is she going to wake up. He is a rotten , nasty pr***!
This is why the Lemmonman responds like he does at times. At times I don't agree but at times he is equally spot on!
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Mimi, good job on taking care of YOU and not running. I've run out of here (usually with very nice goodbye messages <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) so many times, you wouldn't believe it. The last time, I disabled my account so I couldn't write... but I lurked (who said 'you never leave Hotel Marriage Builders?)... and I saw a thread I just HAD to respond to... and so... uh... here I am.
I was reading and responding to eav's thread too, but after the first thousand pages, didn't know what else to say. Since it was her thread that sparked this, I have to mention that threads like hers bring out the fighter in most of us... it's (unfortunately) drama... there's infidelity, undying love, abuse... of course people will feel passionately about it.
What Pepperband said is true. I'll have mine scrambled.
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thanks to mimi who posted some of harley's beliefs on my thread today. I do see that some affairs are not addictions. However he also says: To be on the safe side I usually treat most affairs as if they are an addiction. If I'm right, we get to the root of the problem without wasting valuable time. If I'm wrong, going through the steps necessary to avoid seeing the former lover, which should be done whether or not it's an addiction, is simply easier to do. and based upon the other information that is shared by harley, in my case, it IS an addiction and on my thread is where lemon made his comments to mimi. His comments to both mimi and myself completly disregard that as a possibility and critisize us both for believing that it is and/or our beliefs how to address it, what to think about it, and how to feel about it he keeps posting to me that he has nothing to offer in my situation...he is right....if he cannot see that my H is a man who is horribly addicted...and sufferring...and may be going through withdrawl or fighting against losing OW, then he cannot help me and should stop critisizing those who are or even giving his opion about my situation and yet...he keeps posting on my thread doesn't he? and so...at least when he appears on my thread i ask myself "WHY IS HE HERE?"
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pepper this is wonderful What lemonman gets out of this board is equal to what he puts into it. Know what I mean? He pushes, he gets a push in return. And, maybe getting pushed back will cause some relationship connection to click into place for him
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I just wanted to say, in case Lemonman reads this:
Lemonman, I appreciate your posts to my threads. You have helped me break through my own delusions of who I married, and I appreciate that. I think if I did consider reconcilation with my WH, I would hope that Lemonman would ask me the questions that would require a well thought out and realistic answer.
I do "buy" the addiction and the fog stuff, mostly because I am an addict and a FWW. But, being an addict (alcoholic), I would not expect gentle treatment if I decided to start drinking again. Being a FWW, I am completely aware of the devestation I caused and would not expect gentle treatment should I have fallen off the fidelity wagon again.
I do envy the spouses that can so unconditionally love their lost, wayward mates. I also think there are situations that require a more heavy hand. For me personally, when Lemonman has asked me about my approach, my inability to reply with a good reason made me think and analyze my own thought processes.
I don't see anything wrong with someone asking us to really think about what we are doing. We are free to ignore anyone we want. I welcome the challenge to my feelings.
Me-41 BS (FWS) DH-41 WS (FBS) 2DD's- 10 and 12 Married 15 years Separated for 2 years after my A Reconciled for 1 year before his A D-day for his A 8/23/05 WH moved out 9/16/05 Divorce final 1/23/07 Affair ended or month or so later My Story
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Well then let me propose this. Were you his first addiction? You freely admit he is addicted to OW. Why couldn't you be marijuana and she is cocaine? Replaced one addiction with another.
And eve until he gets help if it is an addiction, it will never change. Ever! You can plan A your [censored] off or plan b your [censored] off. If it is an addiction, without help there will be no change. That help must be his to seek.
Is the rest of his personallity addictive in nature?
Remember, addictions are at most times realized when rock bottom is reached. Is he there yet? If intermittent contact with you or OW continues rock bottom cannot be reached.
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Lemonman,
I am a great admirer of yours, but I have to tell you I think you are ADDICTED.
Yes. You, Lemonman, are ADDICTED to quotation marks. Please cease and desist. Quotation marks are disapproved of by the Chicago Manual of Style when used to designate ironic usage, which covers most of your abuses. Irony should be signaled by word choice and writing, not by quotation marks.
If you work on your quotation marks, I will work on my dashes and ellipses.
"Virtue -- even attempted virtue -- brings light; indulgence brings fog." -- C.S. Lewis
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Sigh......another post entitled "Lemonman"....
Ya know.....I don't have it "in me" today to do this. Still on "vacation"...in my mind at least.
I made some statements that were said in the "heat of the moment"...and I will leave it at that.
I am kind of chuckling right now, as I literally am "floored" that there are these posts here...<uyy veyyy>...debating yet again my VALUE as a contributor....as IF any one person has any more "value" than anyone else....LOL. It is ALL in the eye of the beholder.
I fully admit that I am not gonna ever win any "popularity" contests here...I am ok with that. You are what you are.
What is ironic too me is that there are undoubtedly some people that think I derive a sense of gratification from this type of stuff....whatever. "duking it out"...."1st round knockout"......LOL, that is kind of funny I have to admit...
I am trying to be on a self imposed post limit diet ....didn't do to well last night. We'll try it again tonight.....I will however continue to post my views on things. While it may not always be on the "Harley" plan, it is said with intention to "help" some people. There is NO DOUBT in my mind whatsoever that my view on things has helped some people with their "recovery"....if I didn't belive that...I'd have quit posting months ago.
If one doesn't like what I say or disagrees.....simply IGNORE IT. If you see my name attached to a post...DON'T READ IT. It is kind of easy. I will try and take my own advice.
Good Day
Lem
P.S. BKkarl, thanks for "defending" me, but honestly it is NOT needed. I trust that the people who can be helped by my presence here will be helped. They KNOW who they are.
Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.
I had the right to remain silent.......but I didn't have the ability.
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yes b the rest of his personality IS addictive. nail biting...until they bleed at times, used to be chewing tabacco-he tried to break that addiction at my request as i am allergic to tabacco or something and got sores in my mouth when i kissed him...but he would still sneak and do it...so i stopped kissing him! after awhile he must have gone through withdrawl and recovered because i never saw any other signs.
he could have been addicted to me i guess if you look at itthat way....but my hope..no my belief would be that since he stayed with me for 17 years...if it was an adiction at one time, i developed into more
and he may be hitting rock bottem now as there is achance OW may have left which is what may have prompted all of the things that transpired this past week and especially this weekend.
i have had minimal contact by e-mail only with my H about dog visitation ( i try to limit my response to 4 words or less if possible) as suggested through my suggestions with Jennifer Harley.
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IMO, Lemonman does provide valuable feedback and direction to some folks on this forum.
However, he OFTEN but not ALWAYS makes derogatory and inflammatory comments both indirectly and directly to me.
He is ARGUMENTATIVE AND PROVOCATIVE by virtue of the FACT that he uses broad, generalized statements to describe my posts..such as "YOU ALWAYS"..
He makes the ASSUMPTION that I think that I am ALWAYS RIGHT which is not true AT ALL...
IMO, he considers his point of view as being FACTUAL and, if I don't agree with him, then he begins to lash out..
He does not want to engage in an intellectual debate.
IMO, he is much too intelligent to resort to such means of expressing his opinions.
He has deemed it upon himself to state that I have a TREND.
This is my statement regarding HIS TREND.
I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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I am trying to be on a self imposed post limit diet No, no, Lemon. Just a diet for quotation marks.
"Virtue -- even attempted virtue -- brings light; indulgence brings fog." -- C.S. Lewis
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