Posted my story on "Just found out" on Friday under “At a crisis point”.

Went and spent the weekend with my family as was already planned. I got a message from my WS on my cell phone Sunday morning at 4:15AM. She wanted to let me know that she was going to be at home when I got there, she loved me, and wants to try to save our marriage.

Came home and she gave me a huge hug. She says she is now willing to get joint counseling. She had told me this before, but this time she said that she actually means it and is not reluctant.

She told me that she had planned on being gone when I got home and had even written a note. She said that even though she had planned on being gone, she could not actually pack. She said she was going to pack Sunday but woke up at 4:00AM and had a revelation or epiphany or something and knew that the right thing to do was to stay and try to make this work.

We had a long discussion and I asked her what she was going to do about the OM. She said she was going to take it one day at a time, just like the book “Her needs, His needs” says. She also said she didn’t think it would be an issue as he had told her Dec. 22nd that he didn’t want any part of breaking up a marriage, and Friday night she got drunk and tried to call him twice and he didn’t answer/respond to either call.

My questions are is this sort of epiphany normal or is it just a response to the OM’s apparent rejection of her? I believe her that she now wants to try to make this work but what do I have to look forward too in the short term? What should I do and what should I expect?

Hi randomthoughts and welcome to MB,,

This is the place for you. I'm sure that you will get advice from many of the vets, but here is my 2 cents.

The epiphany you refer to your wife having is normal for a WS. You need to read Surviving an Affair and HIs Needs Her Needs. If she is going by this book to go "one day at a time", she needs to go by it for No contact, and commit to that. No calling the OM when she is drunk, etc.

You will also find answers on how to behave and what to look forward to. This site and the writings have helped me tremendously in understanding my H and the reasons for the A. If I were you, I would start with asking her to fill out the Emotional Needs questionnaire with you and see how it goes from there.

Good luck!

Mamafish is right...spell out CLEARLY and UNMISTAKEBLY for your wife that contact has to end right now with OM...and it has to end FOREVER. This is non-negotiable. A letter needs to be sent to him, copied and approved by you, from her indicating that she is now working on her marriage, and that any contact of any kind between the two of them is unacceptable.

She needs to take ACTIVE measures to ensure that contact remains ended...change her cell phone/email/IM accounts, change jobs if she works with OM.

She needs to now become ACCOUNTABLE to you...free access to all those accounts etc...so that she can begin rebuilding the trust between the two of you.

Counseling is definitely needed too...and make sure that this is a counselor who is both PRO-marriage and has a clear understanding of how to assist a marriage that has been damaged by infidelity.

This sounds promising...make sure you read up on this site about withdrawl, no contact, and many of the other tools that you can implement to improve your marriage.

Finally...make sure she understands that actions speak far louder than words...she SAYS she's willing to do what it takes to rebuild the marriage...now she needs to roll up her sleeves and take the actions I've outlined above to show that she means it.

I started reading the book this weekend, but have not finished it yet and have been lurking on this site for the past week or two. We discussed the emotional needs survey yesterday and I left a copy for her at home that she said she will start filling out. I plan on doing the same.
It seems to me like she is sincere, I think though that if he had answered her call on Friday that we would have had a completely different outcome.

Random

Welcome to GQII. Thanks for bringing it over here.



Yes, it is completely normal. Like I said on "just found out" occasionally OM's do the right thing. Yes, your wife tried to call him (notice she had to get drunk to do it which means she was very conflicted)...she likely thought she could "sell" OM that she had separated from you and was going to pack her stuff up and move out...anything to keep the affair alive and growing...to maintain her addiction. But OM rejected her. More likely because he is just not interested than because he's just not that into her rather than he wants her to work on her marriage. Her epiphany is convenient, yes...but priceless just the same. Your wife was/is fogged out and for her to come home and declare she loves you and wants to work on the marriage is quite extraordinary. It is not seen here all that often as most WW's vacilate btwn "I'm leaving anyway" to "I don't think I can ever love you again" as their PRIDE and GUILT intermix with the Rationalizations and Justifications they conjured up for allowing themselves to get caught up in the affair in the first place. Your wife is confused no doubt but apparently willing to work it out. As strange as this may seem, I'd say you got a keeper.

What do you intend to do with your kinda backwords good fortune. I strongly recommend calling the Harleys for joint phone counseling. It may sound ridiculous but the Harley's are the best marriage counselors in America at dealing with this issue and they will help you and be worth the money. There counseling and the MB program is supplemented with all you can both read and discover here on this site as well. Of course, you could try to find a very Pro-marriage counselor locally or go to your church for counseling but that is a gamble and you only get to really work once a week for an hour or so...whereas the phone counseling is more convenient and this site is here to back it up 24/7. I'm no sales rep for MB, I just believe in the program as does everyone else here.

You also asked about what to expect in the short term. I'd expect her to go through some withdrawal. Read up on the subject on some of the other threads here. I think I even saw a thread entitled "withdrawal" pop up a few days ago and can be found on the first few pages. In withdrawal you may experience your wifes moods facilating between remorse, regret, anger, blame, happy, sad, guilty, etc. If so, you just Plan A and continue to try to meet her needs and allow her some time to process this. In your case this should only last about a month as the affair does not at first sound as though it was that long or intense. On the other hand, some couples experience an immediate push for heated reconciliation wherein she throws herself back into your relationship in order to compensate for the pain she caused you or a plethora of other reasons while trying to avoid discussing and working out anything...I caution you...although this will seem great at first after about 3 to 4 weeks there is often a crash wherein all the real problems in your relationship (beside the affair) on both sides come racing to the forefront in a big blow out. Be prepared for either.

Do the Emotional Needs questionaire. Talk to her but more importantly just listen as she processes what has happened. You may get a quick apology but I would hold off forgiving right away. Instead indicate that you are processing all that has gone on yourself and you are working on "acceptance" first and just as she is moving towards full repentence you are working on a full forgiveness. Unfortunately, there are no shortcuts in recovery. Respect that this is a process and if you keep a journal you will be amazed looking back how things just get better one week at a time. It's trying on your patience at times but stick to it. My marriage is better than it EVER was prior to my wife infidelity. It's all about intimacy, an intimacy I didn't believe I could ever develope and learn how to grow prior to my bout with infidelity. I wish you success as well.

Good Luck,
Mr. Wondering

This is exactly what I mean. This is part of the PROCESS your wife is going to go through in the coming weeks/ months. Right now she believes she had sincere feelings for OM...she believes they were real feelings. No matter what you say or do right now YOU can not convince her otherwise. Problem is her feelings were not real...it WAS/IS a fantasy relationship HOWEVER she must come to that conclusion herself and it is pointless for you to try to argue or teach her that what wasn't/isn't real, wasn't/isn't real.

At the same time, while she's processing that it wasn't real it won't help your situation if you doubt yourself and buy into her fogged out comments that it WAS REAL. You must stay strong as you are Plan A'ing her and attracking her back to your marriage and attempting to deposit Love Units into her Love Bank. If you consume yourself with self-doubt or feelings of being second best that those deposits become more difficult to make. You end up lashing out with L.B.s because you are "hurting". I know you are hurting but that's not going to help your marriage any to express it (unproductively that is---I'm not suggesting you suppress it just don't REACT inappropriately when she says hurting things recognize it as part of the process).

If you've been hurt before, say in High School. You know the feelings of desperation that goes along with a break up with a girlfriend. Those feelings will surface again and those immature feelings should be suppressed. This is not your high school girlfriend this is your wife. God's perfect gift to you. God has a purpose for this and it can be for you two to wake up and grow in your relationship. The devil wants you to wallow in self-pity and insecurity. God wants you to be a strong and faithful husband. In God's eyes...you are number 1 in this marriage. OM isn't even on the radar. In a few short months, your WW will become completely repentent and realize just how dillusional her so-called feelings for OM really were and her REAL feelings for you will have QUADRUPLED based upon how you conducted yourself today and the coming weeks.

Godspeed Random,

Mr. Wondering

P.S.- Great advice above...No Contact letter, transparency and keep your eyes and ears open

That's pretty amazing predicting MrWondering. She apologized last night and she wants to go away alone together this weekend to work on our marriage. After she said she was sorry I told her that we both have a lot of work to do and that this is going to be very hard on both of us. I didn't say that I accepted or rejected her apology.
I am still planning on keeping my eyes open.

Owl,
That is kinda what spurred the whole scene this weekend. I made it clear Friday that I had a very good idea what was really going on and that she needed to have NC with OM.
I know she was shocked that I knew as much as I did and I think that she had to leave to get a handle on it. I know that she did not want to give him up, but I think that she has accepted that it must be done.
We have not discussed specifics yet about how to have NC and I am expecting that I will get some resistance.

She apologized but she is not yet repentent. But go away with her. Spend time with her. Talk it out but try to listen, listen, listen. Don't teach. Let her progress. When she makes fogged out statements tend to agree and move on. Find an ORCHID post and read up on reverse babbling...it is an effective tool.

For example,

WW: "I am so sorry I did this too you but you have to admit I gave you so many warnings that if you didn't do this or that that I was going to seek attention elsewhere"

RT: "Yes dear, but you've certainly got my attention now"

WW: "This is kind of your fault"
RT: "I can see where your coming from" (deep space nine but you don't need to say that)


You get the drift.

Good luck...If your situation is like mine your in for an intense couple of weeks my friend. If the fog babble gets to hurtful just try to go out and distract her by actually putting aside the heavy talking for a bit and HAVE FUN. Spontanious (sp?) fun has a way of depositing a lot of love units and is probably how you attracted her in the first place years ago.

Mr. Wondering

An update.

My wife and I went away for the weekend of the 13th-15th. We had an incredibly great time. It was somewhat weird, but we both really enjoyed being together and hanging out.
We started marriage counseling on the 18th. The first appointment was pretty generic, basic fact finding and background info. The counselor told us to basically take the week off from discussing our issues as we needed help communicating.
On the 21st my wife wanted to talk and told me that she wasn't very hopeful and didn't think that we could get over all the hurts of the past. We had discussed her writing a NC letter and I asked if she had done so yet. She said that she had started one 30 times, but had not been able to finish it yet. We talked for a long time and suddenly a light went on for me, that she had had contact with the OM. I asked and she admitted that he had emailed her and she had replied. She said it was basically "Hi, how are you", but she certainly would not provide any details. I again reiterated that there couldn't be contact if she hoped this would work.

We had our second session with the MC on Wed. the 25th. We each did an hour separately. My hour was pretty brutal as the M/C hit me pretty hard on the things that I had done that opened the door into our relationship for OM. It was all stuff I already knew about ignoring my wifes needs, but it still is not easy to have a third party lay them out for you. She brought us back together at the end and talked about us "giving up our ambivalence to divorce". She said that divorce is a train wreck and nobody comes out unhurt. I didn't need to be told that, but I think my wife did. I was pretty crushed Wed, Thur and Friday.

My wife told me last night that she is really angry with me. She wants to go away for a week by herself on vacation and I suggested that we discuss it with the M/C. She said that she is sick of people telling her what she should and shouldn’t do. She talked about wanting her independence and not having to get approval for things like that. I explained that my concern is that she would not go alone. She told me that there are really a lot of great things and times in our past, but that she is not sure that she can get over the bad things that have happened. Part of her wants to chalk our marriage up as lessons learned and start over again by herself, with her taking the kids.

Our next session with the M/C is on Wednesday the 1st. The M/C suggested that if we have any questions we should write them down and we can discuss them on Wed. I am trying to figure out what I should ask at this point? Any suggestions?

Me husband- 40 years old
Spouse – 38 years old
Married 16 years
Son-16
Daughter-11

She said that divorce is a train wreck and nobody comes out unhurt. I didn't need to be told that, but I think my wife did. I was pretty crushed Wed, Thur and Friday.

Blessed are you to have a marriage counselor NOT out to sugar-coat and deny the realities of divorce...

She said that she is sick of people telling her what she should and shouldn’t do.

babble babble babble..especially when one is held close to a candle.....they often react with great demonstrative declarations...and this type of escalation.....to take focus of how uncomfortable the truth tastes in their mouth..much easier to spit out vile things to deflect the pain on to others....

she says...
She said that she is sick of people telling her what she should and shouldn’t do.

your turn to babble back..

AMEN SISTER...you are preaching to the choir.....

Now can I get you a cup of tea.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

DON'T power struggle this stuff..
don't give it more than..
I hear ya..
or
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm I see.......

people zig and zag at first when the truth hits them a little too close to a nerve....
then they find power and strength in facing themselves and what they have caused....

ARK

ark,
Thank you for replying. Our MC is pretty tough so far. We both thought that our second session was brutal and maybe the M/C got some kind of bonus points for making us both cry.
I asked the MC whether there was any point to counseling if the WS was still in contact with the OM. She replied that that was a great question and that I should ask my wife this session.

Has this Affair been exposed?? To family, friends?? OM's S/O (if applicable)??

NC must be established....

Send me on my way,
It has not been exposed. OM is single. I was thinking my wife was going to establish NC without this step being necessary.

What do you think now?

She wants 'time off to herself'. This almost always ends up being 'time with OP' rather than anything else.

Don't agree to it.

Tell her that you'd be more than willing to let her take some time for 'herself'...after this crisis period in your marriage has past. But, taking off NOW is the worst possible thing she can do. DO NOT AGREE TO THIS.

Be honest with her on the trust thing too...she's destroyed your trust. And you're very confidant that she'll rebuild that trust over time, she's not done so YET. So going away 'by herself' isn't something you're comfortable with accepting just yet.

Send me on my way,
I feel like an idiot. I do not want to embarass her in front of her friends and co-workers. I do not want her to lose her job. I do not think exposing her to her family will do anything as they are not close and I did not want to make her feel bad around my family.

Owl,
How can you keep a grown woman from doing what she wants?
One of her issues with me is that she says I am controlling.

I told her my problem with this is trust and that I am not comfortable with it. She is planning on going anyways.

To begin with, the BS is ALWAYS "too controlling"...it's one of many war cries used by those involved in an affair...right up there with "I know...but my situation is DIFFERENT!".

You're too controlling to her right now because you're not agreeing with her behaving in an immoral way that is destroying your marriage. Big shock, huh?

As far as how do you stop her....hmmm...well, that's up to you really. It depends on what you're willing to risk too I guess.

My wife was all set to fly away and live with OM...even though she'd never met him face to face. I told her that it was her choice to get on that plane...but if she did, she could NEVER come back. And I meant that...and she knew it.

Calmly, politely, lovingly explain to your wife why you don't want her to go. Make it very clear to her what she's risking. I'm assuming you've been in plan A here, so hopefully she's starting to see what she stands to be losing. Tell her that if she leaves, she's not working on rebuilding the marriage, she's working to destroy your family. Try to get her to understand that...perhaps offer some type of compromise instead of her leaving or going someplace.

If she still refuses, then have a plan on how you're going to deal with that. I know MB does NOT condone using 'ultimatums'...but sometimes you also have to let the WS suffer the consequences of their choices or they'll never have any reason to go back to doing the appropriate things they should be doing.

Just my thoughts.

Random, this is going to seem harsh but I really can't think of any other way of saying this: Why would YOU be embarrassing her? She has embarrassed herself has she not? It is a result of HER actions not yours.

Look, Random...you are no different than the many men before you who fear their WW's reaction to exposure. What many have learned is that there is no BETTER Way to stop an Affair...

You need to read the principles of this site, get the book, surviving an affair, and read....and start a plan of action.

You have lost your wife sir, she is gone. This place, these people can help you get her back but you MUST understand how it works, YOU must understand that there is NOTHING unique about your WW or her affair....it is all nice in the confines of the cave her affair lives in, show it light, lots of light and it can die. The choice is all yours sir. We are here to help only if you really want it. There is not a betrayed spouse here that doesnt understand your fears...but only feel stupid if you allow it to continue...