Thanks for the responses.

Loving. I am really avoiding LB's. I play nice everyday. I try to engage him in conversation and I get my typical head shake or a one word response. He was upset yesterday because I am throwing a baby shower for my SIL on Sunday and had asked him to do a cover for seed packets. (He is a creative director, very talented) I asked on Saturday and he said he would help and then never offered. So I did them myself. Of course they weren't as nice as his would have been but I really couldn't wait anymore. I told him I knew he hadn't been feeling well and that I really knew he had a lot of work to do and really didn't want to bother him with something so trivial. Trying to be nice again. He was upset and said fine bye and hung up. He knew I was working on them 2 days before because I had sent him a sample at work to print out and it didn't work so I kind of hoped he would come home and offer but he just came home and locked himself in our room. Our DD had friends over and I guess he wasn't feeling social. His new term.

I also don't see recovery in our immediate future. He will fence sit until I finally can't take it anymore, but what he doesn't understand is that I am feeling better about myself and I will sit on that fence with him quietly holding his hand until he is ready to jump down.

My SIL used to say he had a corncob up his but little did we know it was a fence post. LOL

MLC/Depression what ever it is will pass someday and when that fog lifts he will see that what he wanted was always right in front of him.

I think I know something that might work though. I have been thinking about it alot. I think if I were to get a job he might just come around a little. Only because kind of like a plan B he would freak out that I may be able to do this on my own. Right now he holds all the cards. SAHM's don't get paid very well. LOL I am taking paralegal classes right now and just need to get my butt in gear and finish. Goal: finish my classes and get a job. After this baby shower.

Thanks again

TxGal...

I'm laughing at the corncob. And I haven't done that before. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I am glad you're feeling better yourself. The less focus on him, the more on yourself, your growth (including an job) will help you be you and him be him.

I want to point out something:

"I told him I knew he hadn't been feeling well and that I really knew he had a lot of work to do and really didn't want to bother him with something so trivial."

Playing nice can be interpreted different ways. The above quote could be you not being nice to yourself in an effort to be nice to him. I caution you against doing this. You were great going ahead and doing the project because he wasn't. That's perfect. However, saying, "This shower is really important to me" is enough to say why you did it instead of waiting on him to the last minute. There's no accusation, no punishment in that. What you did was rationalize and I don't want you to betray yourself.

Is this a normal thing for him? To agree to something and then not do it? Or is this new with the MLC/Depression?

Did you fill out an EN questionnaire on him so that you can rank his ENs (to the best of your ability)? Could Financial Support be a hidden one? I hope it can tie in with you finishing school and going to work, like a bonus. I hope you're doing the paralegal vocation for you.

How about your resentments for your H? If you want to explore those, I'm good at them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thinking of you and cheering you on.

LA

Loving

Glad I could make you smile. I am doing the paralegal classes for me. I started 10 yrs ago taking classes at the local community college My plan was to finish my Bachelors and go onto Law School, but at the time my H was against that. He felt that if I became a lawyer I would D him. How funny that was. I told him that wouldn't happen. So definately becoming a paralegal is my idea. Put my investigative skills to good work.

I have tried to figure out his EN but when I think I have it right he changes. MLC monster at work.

I'm not sure what you mean by resentments for your H. Does that mean my resentments or his?

He is usually really good about doing creative things for me. I just think he wanted me to ask him again. I'm not really sure what he wanted. I never know what he wants anymore. I don't think he knows what he wants.

Tonight I am going to Trivia Night at our High School. I did exactly what you said. Told him I would really like him to go but if he didn't want to I would be going with my friends. He said he didn't want to go. So now I am going with friends and can't wait to make a fool of myself with my lack of knowledge in trivia. LOL

Thanks again for all of your advice. I really appreciate it.

Hey, Sweet;

How are you doing? Great to know you're doing the school for yourself. How was Trivia? You're no fool no matter how much trivia you do or don't know!

I see something in your post that does concern me. I have this thing that helped me a lot in figuring myself out. I had to create standards and boundaries; standards are what I won't do to other people; boundaries are what I don't let other people do to me. They are the same things (balance). Also, standards are how I have to treat myself, also. Equal stuff.

In your post, you say that it was funny to you that your H feared you becoming a lawyer because he believed you'd divorce him. If you had a fear that your H would leave you because he was secretly always looking for someone better than you, would that feel funny? See, he has a fear and he told you about it. That's intimacy. It doesn't have to make sense--it's a fear. They usually don't. Laughing it off because it is so unreal to you would be a little harsh. Just my opinion. I don't want him laughing off anything you share of your fears or dreams.

Do you really believe that people change their emotional needs? Or that MLC can do that? You know this man. You've seen him light up and shut down. What do you think his top five ENs really are? What are yours?

And I meant what do you resent your H for? Over the years, I resented my H because he didn't appreciate what I did for him, wouldn't compliment me, praise me, support me, give me enough attention or focus. I would resent him for not sharing, for not putting his degrees to use, for, well, heck, lots and lots of stuff. Does that give you a better picture?

When's the baby shower? How are your kids doing with his withdrawal and your pain? How was your Friday the 13th and Full Moon, anyway?

LA

LA

What would I do without you!!! Thanks for getting me to think. I really love that.

Let start with Trivia night. Out of 32 tables our table came in (drum roll please) 32nd. Not the brightest crayons in the box. We did have a disadvantage though. Only one guy at our table and I don't think he has watched a sport in his life. I almost knew more about sports than he did. Pretty sad. Thank god for the Spongebob and Rugrats questions. Got those right.Still had fun though wish we could have drank I might have got more answers right. LOL And also for a table of ten we only had 6. Not good odds. Next time I am going to study. Yeah right. Thank god the food we brought was good and I did get some great deals at the silent auction. My family will be eating out for months.

I think he always felt less than me. One time he said " You could do twice as good as me and I could only do half as good as you" Of course that was before the MLC monster took over his brain. I held him and told him that was the sweetest thing anyone has ever said to me and told him he never had to worry because there wasn't anyone that was even half as good as him.

We have had so many great memories, but I am coming to realize the fog just takes over and clouds even the best times.

I really do believe that MLC changes EN's almost on a daily basis. I know he likes a perfect house. (never gonna happen with 3 kids but I try) And I really try to make everything look good before he comes home. Never a word. ****** I did a while you were out on our bedroom in July when he had a business trip. Let me tell you that was the most exhausting 3 days of my life. He had done a design for our bedroom and it was gorgeous but to perfect. I knew that room would have to be kept perfect at all times. Well needless to say I shot it down. (2yrs before) But I did it almost the way he had it. He walked in the room shook his head and said why did you do this. I said I wanted to do something nice for him. This was before I found out about the OW. It is beautiful, but that night he went out with his brother and sister. didn't ask me to come along just went. Thanks for all your hard work, but I am leaving anyway. I was really hurt. We have since finished the room together and it looks incredible. Would be quite the love nest if he were willing.

Resentments against him. Wow this could take a while. He and I started out rocky after the first year together I found out I was pregnant. I didn't want to get married because I was going to have a baby. I pretty much let him off the hook. Told him I would take care of us and that he could be free. I did love him though. I went through ****** during that pregnancy. At one time he said that he understood why i wouldn't have an abortion, but he prayed that I would miscarry. (This is something his mother had done when his sis got pregnant and it worked) I have forgiven all involved in this but still think about this. It all worked out we moved in together she was born everyone did a 180 that day (his family, mine were very supportive) his mom didn't come to my baby shower cause she thought it was wrong for a unwed mother to get a baby shower. I do get along with her now, but that hurt. She is really on my side right now.

I also resent that he didn't compliment me enough, of course now I know that I was going about it the wrong way. I used to say. If you were at work and noone said good job ever do you really think you would want to continue doing anything for them. People rave over him at work and always have. He is superman to them. And I too have told him he is the most talented person I have ever met. I resent how he treats me. Like I am less than human. If he gets angry about something I get the silent treatment. Ok probably also went about this wrong. Cuz I would also not engage for a while and then slowly he would come around. And anything to avoid the conflict. (both of us.)

The baby shower is Sunday. I really can't wait for this baby to get here. I love them babies alot. My H will probably not like how much I will get to watch this little one but I am a baby freak (you know that unconditional love they give) I will want to hold her forever. Hasn't been a baby girl around here in a while. My DD is 18.

Oooh a little background on my DD for you. Actually think her issues might of helped push my H over the cliff to MLC. 2 yrs ago last Aug we caught her with a girl. Someone from a town about 2hrs away. Well the issues we had with this girl were that she was a huge liar, I could get over the fact that my D said she was bi but this girl was bad news. Needless to say anything negative we said just fueled the flame. DUH Now I know better. Told my H that we needed to back off and let this run its course. We did family counseling with her because she was also cutting. Lots of issues and I know he couldn't take much more. Then all of our friends started getting divorced because of A's. Enough to send any man over to MLC land. He never did accept the issue of her being bi, but what we did was (bet you'll never guess) avoid the issue. As I knew would happen the relationship did fizzle out and now our wonderful DD is in a new relationship with (drum roll) a boy. Well he is 20 so I guess he may be considered a man. He is sooo nice and completely entranced with our DD which she is also with him. He is very cute. Of course I get the see you were going to accept her being gay and now she is not. What were you thinking? I was thinking I love my DD and want her to know that. Her and he are alot alike so they clash alot. She doesn't have alot of respect for him because during all of this he didn't accept her. Thank god she still talks to me. So maybe with this you can see he hasn't had the greatest time of things add that to a very high stress job and you are bound to have troubles.

He is out tonight God knows where. I have drove all over looking to see if I could find him and if he is with OW. Hard to know. Her car was not home but that is kind of confusing because she is a flight attendant and she flies out of Hawii. We are in Illinois. I never know what it means when her car is there or when it is not. I have never caught his car there. God help him if I do. That would probably be the last straw.

Well my DD's dog has run away again and I must catch him at almost midnight. I hate that dog sometimes

Thanks for all of your support.

Oh, thank yourself for thinking. You've been wanting to distract from your loop and I'm convenient. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Okay, you're welcome. Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me.

You had a good time, win or lose. Seems like you like to win more than lose, huh?

Back to bootcamp.

"I held him and told him that was the sweetest thing anyone has ever said to me and told him he never had to worry because there wasn't anyone that was even half as good as him."

Seems you cherish that memory. Does it feel like you did a loving, kind thing for your H? I'm sorry to say, to me, it feels like you disrespected him horribly.

He stated his insecurity, not his adoration of you. He said, "I feel half as good as you" and underneath, if you'd asked how that felt, he might have said, "Pitiful. Lonely. Angry. I hate myself." Then how would your words make that better? He was looking at himself, through you. That does give you the power over him, but instead of handing it the power back to him, you used it by assuring him that you could protect him from himself by comparing him to others! Oh, darlin. You guys are really intertwined.

One of his ENs is domestic support? He's stated that? And why it is a need? Or did you assume? Sweet, here is where that enmeshment gets really messy. You do something for him to show your love and then don't get the reaction you want, which wipes away three days of your life. And you think it was his poor reaction that did that? You had the expectation. OW or not. Everything else aside. You did something and you wanted praise for it. Nothing wrong with that. But it is an ambush, a set up with a big selfish demand attached. "Why did you do this?" "Because I wanted to show you my love." Good. If you wanted to show him your love, you did. No reaction required. No tit for tat.

I'm not attacking you, I'm trying to show you the patterns I lived and hurt by. I had no idea I was doing this to myself.

I thought he was the one hurting me.

Now, your bedroom is something you can enjoy. For you. Concentrate on what it gives you if you removed those old expectations. Share it with yourself for now. Inhale it. Find what pleases you in there. Then see how you feel.

Do you feel strongly you know where you end and your H begins? That you are two wholly separate people? How much do you do for H that you wish he would do for you? What do you do for yourself that you need?

I'm reading your resentment timeline (you began at the beginning and that's perfect!). Have a question:

"I have forgiven all involved in this but still think about this"

What exactly did you forgive?

Why did you feel you let him off the hook and what gave you that power? (Again, I did all this myself. I did. I'm not coming at you sarcastically or attacking. I want to know your reasons.)

I feel you keep looking for reasons why your H caved into stress and MLC (like it is a separate monster) and finding them. I have a suggestion, a totally amateur and uneducated guess to the bottom of MLC...

:::tiny drumroll::::

Respect. What I've noticed is that men and women reach a point of wondering how their life got this way and that they might not have much more left of it. I don't see a lot of single men and women having MLC. I see married ones. If you are enmeshed with your spouse, and everything that happens is about you and them and you are them, then what has happened is that autonmy has left the building. The MLC person goes out to find it. Like it is out there instead of inside of them.

Respecting another person involves knowing thoroughly that another person thinks, feels and acts differently than you do and accepting that. Much more difficult than it seems. If you feel his abandonment issue can be cured by saying you're not leaving, then that's enmeshment. That reinforces that someone outside himself has the cure. On the other hand, if you acknowledge you know and understand that he fears abandonment, that leaves his power to cure it in his own hands.

What if MLC is the extreme reaction to giving your power away (because you believe that becoming one in a marriage is the right way) and you wake up and say, "Who am I?" and overreact to get it back?

The infidelity issue isn't separate, I think. His choice. But if he believes he has been choiceless all these years, no wonder the fog gives him the feeling that he is finally in control of what he wants, but that he's justified because of his spouse?

Total nonsense, but it doesn't fix the non-sense that went on in the marriage. I lived through my H. My H lived through me. To break that, we tried to break each other, when we only had to begin respecting each other instead.

My heart feels your pain in driving around, trying to find answers, where he is, what he is doing, because I did that. Then you have to do it for a dog and it feels like doing it for the same reasons. You're looking for a dog both times. :::insert weak grin here::::

Have you exposed to OW's employer about the affair? To H's family? Just wondered. Does your DD know?

I want to take you backwards through the relationship to unravel the intertwining. You, a separate person, with choices. Him, a separate man, with his choices. Somewhere in there, I found relief, comprehension and peace.

I'm not ignoring your DD. I would feel the same in your shoes. I have three sons and hope for granddaughters! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> What did you learn in family counseling?

LA

bump

LA

Sorry it has taken two days to get back to you. My H has been around too much for me to really answer back.

The baby shower was a big success although I wonder why people RSVP and then not show up. My SIL family said 40 people from their side well 16 showed up. I had food and stuff for 80 people I think we had 35 there. UGH!!! She did get alot of nice things. Something very strange happened to me though.

While we were setting up my upper leg started to itch. Almost to the point of being unbearable. My mom asked if I had taken a pill that day (Xanex) for my nerves. I said no that I had not, but thought she might be right so I ran home and took one. Seemed to help the itching stopped anyway. Well yesterday I look at my leg where the itching was (thought I had gotten bit by something) and here is this huge bruise over the entire area that itched. I showed my H and he actually seemed concerned for once. Told me I should contact the Dr. today.

Yesterday the library had a book I had put on hold in "You Don't have to take it anymore" LA is this where you have learned all you seem to know. I started it last night and wish I owned it. I would have been underlining like crazy. I am definately going to write some of it in my journal so that I don't forget it. I know that he won't do the Boot Camp section but at least I will have some knowledge for my self.

It talks about sleep patterns and how it can hurt you physically and emotionally. Well my H has had terrible sleep issues for years. Big lightbulb moment for me.

The bedroom "no i didn't get the reaction i was looking for, but I am enjoying it. I really didn't think I would. You know too pretty. Has to be perfect all of the time and trust me when I say not the greatest housekeeper in the world, but am doing alright keeping my side picked up. Sometimes I feel there is this imaginary line there. His side my side. My DD put necklaces on his side of the dresser he immediately moved them to my side. He is a perfectionist and I know this is an EN for him. I really am trying, but i know it will never be perfect. 3 kids and 2 dogs and us there is always something to clean. Today it is make the dining room perfect day. God help me. Why does a room we never use collect so much junk. LOL

I bowl for myself. I work out for myself and to meet his EN of an attractive spouse. But I am always thinking about what everyone else wants or needs. If I go to the store when thinking about buying stuff I buy for them. Sure I get my Oreos for breakfast but other than that it is what will H want for breakfast or dinner. Oh DS's won't eat that have to buy this. I'm sure most if not all mothers and wives do the same thing. But lately I guess with all of this it has really stood out for me. All of the things I do for everyone else and what do I get in return. Granted i don't expect anything but could they at least throw away the paper plate when they are done eating. LOL
I have tried the thanks for throwing that away thing. It is actually working on the 6yr old the other 2 forget it. They'll get to it when they get to it. My 6 yr. old has been saying "mom, sit down let me be your maid today" Really glad I had that "oops" He is the light of our lives. My MIL says he is a special child. (old soul)

I exposed to my H's mom and sisters and my DD knows. She gets home early from school and caught mom crying one to many times. Figured it out on her own. I think the oldest DS is figuring it out also. My H treats them like me. Yesterday my DS where are you going dad. He said I don't know. My DS said if I make this basket will you tell me. My H said" I said I don't know" Well where ever it was he was there 3 hours. I don't ask anymore, but I think he went to work because when he came home he had work product with him that he didn't have earlier.

LA-I am going to start giving you my $20 a week. I think you are doing more for me than my IC.

I never realized that by forgiving someone for hurting me I was giving my power away. I can see how that works and would love for you to elaborate on this.

I don't know that I actually ever came out and said I forgive you for hurting me. I just think in my heart I let that go. Of course there is still resentment for the things that happened so many years ago. Guess I am going to really have to speed read that book. Think I'm going to see if it is on ebay. Think I need to own this one.

Keep questioning me LA. I think you are helping me and others by what you are saying and asking. You don't realize what you are doing for me. The are parting a little and I am starting to see a little light. Thank you for that.

Your apology isn't accepted. Whenever you have time to come here, I appreciate it. No sorries required. You might have the expectation to give people what they want when they want it, but I don't. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Let's talk about expectations. Your post is full of them. The whole RSVP thing is in place so that you have reasonable expectations, right? And when people still don't show, then your expectations aren't met. How does that feel to you?

" he actually seemed concerned for once."

You expect that when you have a concern your H should also. And you should be able to feel his concern, so that it mirrors your own, in intensity and priority, is that correct?

Do you see your statement as a truth or as a disrespectful judgment?

You believe your H is a perfectionist and that is an EN for him--having his environment a certain way to meet his expectations.

Did you contact the Dr today?

"But I am always thinking about what everyone else wants or needs." You are caught up in the mother/wife/daughter role of providing for every one's desires, not necessarily their needs. You recognize this. You do not sacrifice by denying yourself stuff (you regard your wants as well as others), so it doesn't feel like a bad thing to do, am I correct? Feels normal, nearly automatic. How much of what you're providing are stated needs and wants, and how many are assumed? Sounds like your kids and H have a lot of boundaries. What are yours?

I hear you bowl and workout for yourself. Good to know! You also get strange itches. (just kidding) Did you contact the Dr? I ask again, like you could have answered me. This would be an act of self-caretaking, in my book.

"I never realized that by forgiving someone for hurting me I was giving my power away. I can see how that works and would love for you to elaborate on this." Whoa...I had to go back read what I wrote to you again.

Oh yeah..."What exactly did you forgive?" I asked. About your first pregnancy. Tell me not that you forgave, but what were their offenses? What WAS there to forgive?

Very important. It is not a past issue. Very alive in the present.

Like the book, in real life, you do give your power away when you stop yourself from saying words or taking actions based on what might or might not occur. Absolutely. When you say, "Oh, you know not what you did, I'll let it go," you are being horribly disrespectful and dishonest. But my question was let's look at the offenses first, and then at your action.

LA

LA

The offenses to me were from my H and his Mom at the time of my 1st pregnancy. We were not married and so a big accident, but I was going to have the baby. I was gainfully employeed and did not believe in abortion and could never give her up. So I chose to have the baby. I told him that if he didn't want to be involved I would go ahead and have her and he didn't have to be a part of our lives. At one point he said to me "I understand why you will not have an abortion, but I have been praying for a miscarriage." His mom said "I understand why you won't have an abortion, but can't you just give her up for adoption." Those two statements hurt me. My response at 22 was probably not correct but told them both again I am not asking for anything from him. For 5 months I walked on eggshells as to not upset anyone. My parents finally said we will help you by getting you a place to live about 30 minutes away. I told my H and that weekend without even telling me he started moving in with me. Told me then that I don't want to lose you.

His mom would not come to my baby shower because she didn't believe an unwed mother should have a baby shower. Also hurt. Her son was living with me at the time.

But the day she was born it was like everyone did a 180 and all of sudden they were supportive and telling me what her last name should be and how she should be raised. She was the first grandchild on both sides. My family was extremely supportive through the whole ordeal.

We got engaged a year after she was born and I knew it was going to be fine. We had gotten through a very rough period and I felt nothing could come between us that we couldn't handle.

While filling out the invites for our wedding his sis started talking about how hard it was on my H while I was pregnant and how upset he was. He and I had put that all behind us and were in love as we always had been just not ready to commit our lives forever. I did not come from a broken home and believe that once married you will do all you can to stay that way. But it just brought back all of the bad memories and some of the things she said I really didn't know. I went home crying and told him what she had said. We talked it out and he said yes, I didn't feel ready to be a dad at that time and said things that I no longer feel. We worked that out.

I guess I wonder how at that time it was so easy to work out problems but now after years of getting the silent treatment from him every time he feels I have wronged him we can't.

Did you get your H to do the Boot Camp section of the book?

I did call the dr. but they put me on hold forever so I just thought I will wait it out and see if it happens again.

My other resentments: not appreciated for things I do, no comfort when I am upset, that stupid silent treatment, feeling not good enough no matter what I do, the keeping score (if you go out I get to go out), how he is nice to strangers on the street but I feel like a pariah. I am sure there is more and I am still reading the book.

Yesterday was spent on the computer (ebay) trying to get our oldest DS the perfect gift for his birthday on Sat. Finally won an auction about 7 last night. Whew.

I finally know where H went on Sat. Went to see a band that we both love. I know he knows that I would be upset because I love to see them so this email i found may make sense but I am still upset by it. It was to a mutual female friend that we have known for years (19) Saying it was nice seeing her and wondering if she wanted to do lunch. She emailed back saying also nice to see him and wouldn't say anything. And sure lunch on the 31st would be great. What is she not going to say anything about. This is from his work email and has no idea i can get into it. my thoughts are that he was there he knows I would be hurt. And he never actually told me where he went because I didn't ask. Starting to not care what he does, but still love him.

Thanks again

"I understand why you will not have an abortion, but I have been praying for a miscarriage."

"His mom said "I understand why you won't have an abortion, but can't you just give her up for adoption."

"Those two statements hurt me." I read you as saying that their offense that you need to forgive is that they said their belief and it was not the same as yours at the time. They both acknowledged that they did not hold the same feelings as you did. They did not say you were wrong, bad, awful, uncooperative, selfish...they didn't define you--they stated their beliefs. They just weren't the same as yours. You expected/desired them to be the same (agreement can feel supportive), but they weren't. There was no offense; it just felt like one.

You wanted the father of the child to feel the same as you did. No offense. At first, you didn't get what you wanted or expected. That does hurt. You're not crazy, but my opinion is that you weren't wronged. No forgiveness required.

"For 5 months I walked on eggshells as to not upset anyone." You felt rejected because of this. You choose to not demand that they be different. You did that. Then your parents supported you (and I noticed the "finally") by getting you your own place. And your H decided his love for you was enough to commit to moving in with you.

"His mom would not come to my baby shower because she didn't believe an unwed mother should have a baby shower. Also hurt. Her son was living with me at the time."

It hurt that your MIL didn't meet your expectation of acceptance and support. That does hurt. She was behaving to her belief, not in an attempt to embarrass or deprive you. May have felt intentionally harmful, but if her truth was what she said, then it wasn't. She was respecting herself and did not choose to fulfill your expectation. Hey, expectations can be reasonable and unreasonable. Knowing what they are isn't easy.

I am not telling you not to feel that pain and anger. You felt what you felt and relive it a bit when you think of it. What I'm asking you to do is to let go of the resentment that you made because two important people in your life believed differently than you wanted them to, and to understand you created that resentment. You did that. Your choice (though you didn't know it was one) and your choice remains to hold onto it because it still hurts.

Now from a respectful perspective, does it hurt as much? You didn't cause them to fail your expectations. You didn't harm them back at the time. You just made a little pocket of angry sit for all these years inside of yourself. Humans desire to hurt back when they hurt. Resentment takes that desire and gives the illusion that someone else put it there.

And I do feel how you felt...honestly, I had two kids out of wedlock. No bull here!

"nothing could come between us that we couldn't handle." I hear that is how it felt. May I point out, though, that there was already something coming between you? The first of many resentments had already begun and like stones in your pockets, as they accumulate, will drag you under.

About his sis--you remembered your feelings, reactions and then actions and described them beautifully. And your H owned his part, stood by his belief, and that it changed. How gorgeous! One part--did the sis say stuff you didn't know he thought and felt? That's what I got. Did you feel deceived by her knowing and not you? Did you feel some rejection, or pain? Betrayed?

"it was so easy to work out problems" I believe what changed was the stones in both your pockets. Hard to get to enthusiastic agreements with resentments. It is not a fix-all, but it is a great start to sort through each and every resentment, find out why you chose to resent, and realize that they weren't done to you. Some might be grievances and not resentments. You can tell those apart because they will feel like something taken from you not done to you. Double check them against your expectations at the time, and if they remain, then those are different, and must be grieved.

Both will lift and leave. You'll be lighter. Your H's silent treatments were abuse, in my book. And in "The Verbally Abusive Relationship"...very important to read to see all the ways the pain comes in and what you yourself dish out. I love how E.B. White said, "And they didn't speak of it and that was still saying something." You're not crazy. Withdrawal (passive resistance to truth) hurts. Searingly hurts. Felt like complete rejection to me. My H was the same as yours is.

Also, in the early days, it sounds like your H would share his truth with you--even the hard ones. Silence is lying by omission because it has no truth in it.

"every time he feels I have wronged him" Do you see how he feels as you did, that your MIL and H wronged you when they didn't? You clearly acknowledged that he feels you wronged him (countless times) but not that you actually did. You validated his feelings. Very cool. Big kudos. I couldn't even do that. I told mine not to feel that way!

And by doing that, you understood that your H created resentments just as you did. The more you examine, understand and let yours go (resentments really are invalid), the better the chance he will also. There is the way back to intimacy and each other's truth.

"Did you get your H to do the Boot Camp section of the book?"

LOL...I can't get my H to do anything! Okay, I'm overdoing it again. But seriously, Stuck...the answer is no. My H said, "You find out and tell me about it, then I'll decide." But he's been in counseling for over a year, so I no longer choose to be his filter, mother and guardian. His counselor can choose to do that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I don't take on those roles anymore. My answer is "I know you can find out this information on your own. I appreciate the opportunity to share with you what heals me."

When I stopped pressuring (look up Crystal43's thread for this part of my story, please), defining, mothering and being responsible for him. He says he began to feel light, free and willing to do what he needs to heal himself. His choices.

No more silent treatments, withdrawals, one sentence cut downs or defensiveness. When he does feel defensive when I tell my truth, he now says, "I'm feeling defensive." "Okay. Do you want to take a break from talking right now? What do you need?" That's it. I was just telling my truth, not trying to get something from him (support or agreement) or for him to do something. I don't feel any pain stopping and resuming another time. It used to trigger all my abandonment fears (and he usually wouldn't talk again, either). I felt nuts!

You are in the deathly dance that won't end unless you stop dancing. That doesn't have to mean leaving. You're reading, learning and asking questions. You're sharing your truth. You are well on the road to getting to a place that is unreal to you right now. It will bring you clarity to make a solid choice in divorcing or not. It can bring better than the early days. You're growing. You are brave, courageous and if you show as much determination in finding yourself as you do in trying to make your H be the man he's darn well supposed to be...well, it is sure success you're looking at.

"(if you go out I get to go out)" Tit for tat...enmeshed couples (are there any that aren't?) do this. If it feels childish, that's because it is. Your wounded inner child and his do a dance, too. They aren't discussed and agreed upon mutual beliefs from your adults; they are hurt, blind and bottom-line justice decisions for your actions. Been there. Even slip into that now sometimes. Very painful. Incredibly so.

"My other resentments: not appreciated for things I do" Look to yourself to find out why that is as big of a need as it is...reasonable or extensive? Do you love what you do for others, or do those things to feel included, accepted or even alive?

"no comfort when I am upset" You have an expectation here that you could examine. Is it my adult belief that I cannot comfort myself enough, or that my H is breaking a promise to me that he would be responsible for that?

"feeling not good enough no matter what I do" This is solely your own. As you take these steps to grow, more and more, you will feel like this less and less and it will have nothing to do with how your H reacts or what he does. Definitely painful gain here. Good stuff that kicks in immediately, I promise.

"the keeping score" Counting resentments are solely within your choice. You don't have to, nobody can make you create or keep a resentment. That's the good news!

"how he is nice to strangers on the street but I feel like a pariah." Oh, I know that one so very well. Same answer though as the not feeling good one above.

Now, the biggest present hurt. Very real. Very dangerous. You're not crazy. You and your H have not had boundaries individually or for your marriage. You are going to learn what they are, how crucial they are to protecting the marriage, yourselves and each other. If you're asking is it wrong? My belief is that it is terribly destructive of your H to have a female friend (no matter 19 years or not), not for email, lunch or concerts. No. This is not jealousy which is about you; this is about him and his choices to destroy his marriage.

My heart feels for you. The anger (because though you haven't understood your true boundaries, you have one...that you will not allow others to lie (by omission or not) to you and intentionally inflict harm on you. You inherently know you're worth more than that.

A lot of what he may be doing is back to tit for tat. You hurt me so I hurt you. Even Steven stuff. By not telling you is not to keep you from being hurt (though that is what WS say). It is from him not wanting to feel the hurt in your eyes in his heart. He wants what he wants and he wants it now. His innerchild is running his life. He is in pain. Part of it is his own doing. When we are enmeshed, what hurts us hurts the partner. And if it doesn't do it enough, we darn well try to insure that it does! Would you consider that is what you felt also, when you first posted? That you weren't running your life?

You can love the man and abhor the behavior. You can state your truth to him and DO NOT reveal how you know. "I know you went to the ____ concert with (insert her name here). I am feeling anger, pain and betrayal." That's it. Walk away if you need to, but state your truth.

A warning word (I'll be telling you a lot of these over my posts): "I am upset." Upset. We use that almost like it is the emotion don't we? Heard it used a thousand times. What does it mean? It means your emotional balance is upset, not you. Pick apart what you feel and list those emotions. They are information. When you state your truth, be specific, both in your thoughts and words. This helps tremendously in letting you feel your power again.

The rest of it is hearing the information and tracing it back to the source...your beliefs. Ugh! Worth it, but...oh, my.

In your corner and along on your path, Stuck.

LA