Thanks Ahuman...and all,
I appreciate the good thoughts and advice!! I think just realizing that anytime stresses and transitions are taking place in marriage there will be some added strain... I don't have a crystal ball but I can try and make each day better than the day before.Keeping this in mind will help relax me abit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Ok..nuff about my stuff.

Hi Newstart!!!Welcome. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good morning ladies! I'm trying to get caught up on the last couple of days...

faithful follower

I feel the same way. I am a Christian and I've asked God for forgiveness and I believe that he has forgiven me. I know that it's not something I deserve, and I accept it as a gift from God and am thankful for it.

What's hard for me, is that people don't forgive like God does. My husband is a Christian too, but his faith has been shaken by what's happened. I feel like as long as I'm stuck here on this earth, I will always be held accountable for what I did.

My moods are very much tied to my husband's. If he's grouchy, especially about the the past, then it makes me incredibly depressed and sad. I don't feel like I can be truly happy unless he is whole and recovered.


dorry

I get incredibly depressed thinking about the past. I can spend hours thinking about how I should have done things differently. For me, the thoughts of the A are always there. I don't have specific thoughts about OM, necessarily, it's just the thought that there is brokeness and conflict always there, just underneath the surface.

Anyway, I just have to choose not to dwell on the past. Thinking about it isn't going to change anything. I just accept it and think, "Okay, what can I do today that is positive and good for my marriage?"

I pray a lot too and ask for God's strentgh and guidance.

Violet, it sounds like you need to do some work on detaching. You are not responsible for your H's moods. All you are responsible for is working to ensure that your past will not be repeated and to explore WHY the A happened and put the safeguards into place. Accept God's forgiveness and pray for your H to catch up.

Violet -

"What's hard for me, is that people don't forgive like God does. My husband is a Christian too, but his faith has been shaken by what's happened. I feel like as long as I'm stuck here on this earth, I will always be held accountable for what I did."

I've felt this way often, too. It is true that it is harder for people to forgive than God - some may not ever be able to (even if they are willing), but give your H time, lots of time. How much time is up to the individual couple, of course, but if you don't want to give up yet, don't give up! Try not to despair or beat up on yourself.

"My moods are very much tied to my husband's. If he's grouchy, especially about the the past, then it makes me incredibly depressed and sad. I don't feel like I can be truly happy unless he is whole and recovered."

This is where I have been stuck for a long time. Recently, partly because of reading here at MB, I realized that when my H is particularly in a bad mood, I need to be extra tender and considerate with him. If he is really taking his mood out on me, and won't talk about it, or talking about it makes things worse - I give him space (go for a walk, or run errands, etc.)

The recent 3-day weekend got kind of long! LOL. We still have trouble spending TOO many days in a row together without a break in there somewhere. However, the tension isn't always A related at this point. We've "always" had a way of getting on each other's nerves.

Not to be sexist, but I wonder if women are more likely to let their moods depend on the moods of the people around them (particulary their H's or children). It seems like we are taught from a very young age that we are responsible for everyone's happiness ("the mother is the heart of the home" etc.) I've noticed that a lot of the women I know have had trouble with this, and it has affected their M's and their self-esteem, even without A's.

HI FF -

"All you are responsible for is working to ensure that your past will not be repeated and to explore WHY the A happened and put the safeguards into place."

I just wanted to add that we're also responsible to make amends as much as we're able. Not that I think you don't think so, of course.

God bless,

Rose

Violet,
Good advice from FF...I need to take it myself...sounds like we are both going through similar emotions/struggles right now.
Take care of yourself.
if you ever want to email me...
mbbranded@yahoo.com
Brandi

I used to always put extreme pressure on myself in pleasing others. My parents, my h, having the perfect home, children.
Even the former OM. I am learning that I can't please everyone. It can compromise my personal integrity. It obviously did. My IC pointed this out to me once. It is not an excuse for infidelity but an interesting point Rose.

B

faithful follower

Yes, you're right. This was an issue (meaning me being dependent on his moods) in our marriage even before the A. Sometimes I feel like I spend too much time trying to sense what mood my H is in, so I know how to act. I don't like being that way, but I'm not sure quite how to detach? Does anyone have ideas on how to do that?

Rose55

Yeah, I understand what you're saying. My H and I carpool to work and see each other for lunch every day, so when we get home, we kind of go our separate ways. I actually don't mind spending time at home, because it seems like there are less triggers and he's in a better mood. The worst part of the day for me is the ride home. It's about 20 minutes, and I'm never sure when H is going to bring something up. I feel kind of trapped.


I think that's a very valid point. I am an overly senstive person to begin with so I am probably taking it too personally when H is in a bad mood. I need to learn how to detach.

((Brandi))
It does sound like we're experiencing similar things. Feel free to email me as well: violet1062@hotmail.com if you ever want to chat.

Thanks again to all the ladies posting on this thread. I find it a great help and support.

check out this thread of mine detachment

Hi ladies - just wanted to say hi real quick and I will post more later - running out to a meeting!!!

Another FWW here....new so I hope you don't mind me posting.

Along with trying to read my H's moods and figure out what he is thinking and feeling about me, I think another problem that I have is with expectations. I have really been trying to work on this, but it seems like I have a way that things should be going in my mind, and when they don't go that way, I get really bummed out. Make sense?

Part of what I am trying to do is better myself, develop more self confidence, and allow my H to be who he is instead of what I want him to be.

That being said, I do need to talk to him some more about ENs and meeting mine. I think there is a subtle difference between my expectations and my needs.

Not sure if that was senseless babble or not, but I appreciate you reading!

Hope you don't mind me joining this thread!

Hi ladies!

Brandi9 and Violet: have you taken an Eneagram test before? Maybe learning more about your own personalities will help in detaching and taking the consuming focus off of the BS. Knowledge has a way of changing an approach to things. Just an idea.

Here is the link: www.enneagraminstitute.com

Also, I can relate to facing the moodiness, withdrawl etc. Sometimes it helps me to read here to maintain insight on how painful and frustrating it is for the BS. It gives me patience and resolve.

Of course, BS pain is not an excuse for developping bad communication skills or abusive behavior!

And it is hard to be braced for supporting the pain and facing the anger, if you have not forgiven yourselves. It is really important to restore your own personal integrity--or you can get sucked in to allowing unhealthy behavior to become acceptable.

One of you mentioned being cornered in the car. Is this because you don't want to talk about the A--or because your BS is expressing his pain about the A in an attacking manner?

mother_earth:

Welcome!


Yep, that totally makes sense. From Nov to December of last year, I felt like things were really taking a turn for the better. But so far Jan has been h*ll. I had expected that since things were going well for a consistnely long period of time that maybe the roller coaster of ups and downs would be less crazy. Unfortunately not, and I feel more depressed than ever.

It's confusing for me, because I need to have faith and trust in God. Yet at times, I feel hopeless and don't see any light at the end of the tunnel.

Ahuman:

Thanks for the link to the Ennegram test. I've heard that mentioned before and I definitely will take it. I think that's a good idea.


That was me. Whenever my H starts talking about the A, it is with anger. I understand the anger stems from being hurt, but when he gets angry he lashes out at me and it turns into name calling and him saying really hateful things. It seems like we can never have a normal, adult conversation with him expressing his feelings in a calm way. Last night was like that. I have to get back to work but I'll post about that later.

Hope everyone is having a good day. It's Friday. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Welcome motherearth! Have you and your H taken the EN questionaire? If not do so. Yes, there is a difference between wants and needs. I too had a problem with trying to turn my H into what I wanted him to be.

All I can say is TGIF!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Thank you for the welcome!

We haven't taken the questionairre......yet. Currently, we are dealing with a long distance situation, so I am thinking about filling it out and sending it to him, along with a blank one for him to fill out and send to me. Thing is, I am having printer issues...grrrrrrrr. Did I mention TGIF?

I think there are some needs not being met, but I hope that there is a happy medium where he can be himself, but still meet my EN's.

I showed him this site and even emailed him a few links, and his response....oh, I have seen that love bank stuff and blah blah blah. I don't think he is taking it seriously. I figure if I fill out the questionairre and send it to him with the choice to fill his out, then he will at least learn something about me.

Baby steps, you know?

Oh, and while I am posting, what does "DJ" mean? I have seen it in several posts and can't find it on the abbreviation list. Thanks!

me

DJ=disrespectful judgement

I think this is pretty common for the BS to lose it sometimes, but if it is a pattern of communication that seems to be another issue--adress right away! Don't let bad habbits form now. Plus as a FWW, I think it would be easy to accept more "punishing"-which is really just abuse rather than uncontrollable angery outbursts, and certainly not progress for the M at all.

I have not posted my story here, but I have tried my damnest to implement a Plan A (well a FWS equivalent to plan A) for two years. Part of this plan for me had to include how to handle angry outbursts--and still deposit ENs!

Infidelity is such a jolt--for both partners--I swear by having a plan. What has worked for me is to have a Plan of Reaction for angry outbursts.

My plan is sort of two step:

1. Difuse and Don't get hooked into an argument.

I usually did this by listening at first (with my body language--open, facing him), then without cutting him off I say: "I want to hear what you are saying. I am trying to listen to you, but I can't hear when you yell and call me names." Then, I say nothing and wait. If he starts to calm down, I touch him (this is particularly effective if your BS has an affection need!)

2. Mark and respect boundaries

If he continues yelling, saying hurtful things, I say: "I can't listen when you speak this way. Let me know when I can listen to you." THEN WALK AWAY....and I do something constructive and distracting like laundry, dishes (this works well if your BS has a household support EN!)

You mentioned he does this in the car, so you can't remove yourself physically. But you can still say this and then TUNE HIM OUT with your body language--like bring a book and start reading it or something. Then, when you get home and he has calmed down, calmly tell him that it hurt the way he spoke to you and that you felt trapped in the car.

If he keeps doing this, tell him you would like to find another way home in a polite and loving manner.

The hardest part of this Plan, I think, is not to get hooked. Recovery is a long and very bumpy road. I am not going to sugar coat it for you, recovery still isn't easy! There are days when I feel like--can we make it!?!

Good luck to you. Maybe other people have some good ideas on how to hanlde angry outbursts?

Ahuman has the right idea.

What i do is have learned not to get defensive and into an argument

I am terrific at defending myself back and getting the last word in - at what cost - getting myself hurt deeply as the wall my H put up in my defences now threw mean words at me.

If he is arguing with you - what I do is I just say nothing and then speak quietly - usually saying I am sorry you feel that way - I stay CALM no matter what I am feeling - then it give him no reason to keep acting like a 2 year old.

If he continues - I usually say I can't continue this conversaton like this - i am sorry - and I walk away and I give him time to cool off. Always walk away.

Habits are hard to break and getting hooked is an old habit that must DIE!

Good morning ladies,

I have an hour by myself and wanted to catch up. The sun has come out today..HURRAY...makes you feel so much better. Still freezing but seeing blue sky is rather nice <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Reading about arguments above reminded me of a huge breakthrough we had last night. My husband is an accountant and has always managed our finances, investments and anything relating to household bills. He has it all in his mind so he knows at any given moment how we are doing. He gives off angry vibes when we are doing badly but won't come out and tell it to me straight. I have been asking for many years to sit down and work out a budget....I need boundaries...boundaries that I've helped set up to stop my spending impulse! My husband is far more laid back but able to curb any spending urges he gets and doesn't understand I have problems with impulse control...ie the Buy button at Amazon. We have tried over the years to sit down on occasion but I never quite feel I understand our financial situation enough....it makes me feel a bit lost and well..useless, like he's a father figure. Yesterday afternoon he came home really early and he'd done a complete spreadsheet on our financial situation and which included the monthly spend on it. It was great, a real eye-opener and just what I really needed. From that and subsequent discussions we then we set ourselves a budget for each of us to spend on whatever we like over the month without any comeback! I was feeling a lot of love for him at that point because he was doing what I needed. I'd explained calmly to him earlier in the week that he may not need to sit down and discuss our finances in such intricate detail but I did. He'd taken it on board. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I had to go and get the girls from school so I gave him a kiss and said "thank you". He didn't understand what I was thanking him for so I told him that him doing this was just what I needed and now I had a budget to stick to I would. I left him to continue his work from home. He surprised me by appearing by the car wanting to come with me so we could continue our financial discussions and make some decisions about non-fixed expenses WOW....this was a first.

Talk about my love bank filling up. I think his was too!

Since practising not Love Busting from around May 04 I've noticed that it has made an impact on how we discuss things. It is now coming naturally! Our old pattern was for me to try and talk to him, he would not understand what I was saying, he'd walk away and I'd get angry. I'd blow up and he'd look at me as if I was crazy. Repeat on a quaterly basis...it wasn't a pleasant way to live.

The re-wiring of our responses may take some time to happen but wow...what a difference.

SF, what did you do to stop the love busting? I had my fill of AO's, DJ's and LB's toward my H last night. He can be very stubborn and closed off. He has not done something important to me that I have asked for the last 3 weeks. I lost it on him and once it starts it gets worse and worse. By the time it ended I was cussing which I hate. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Happy Birthday SF you have a cake by your name <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
It's funny how men react different by us just changing how WE act.

i always thought I was doing it right - that I was a FANTASTIC communicator cause I talk so much and can express myself so well - turns out i was a HORRIBLE communicator when it came to my H

Awww FF - I am sorry you had a rough night. If you need to talk - you can email me chickie...in your sitch its probably hard to stay calm...it's been a long few years for you...