Finally Learning -


I don't think I told her that. I hope I didn't. I do have a tendency to put my foot in my mouth at times.

By non-demonstrable I meant things like her love, her care, her concern. I'm struggling right now with hurt, anger, bitterness, etc, and it's compounded by the fact that she doesn't fully understand my pain, nor does she really care about it.

The list I have is what I consider a living document - I add to it as I think of things. I did tell her to keep thinking and let me know if there were specific things I could do for her.

And I will continue to do things for her that I know she appreciates, as well as thinking about new things that she might.

Thanks for your comments - they have helped me to avoid making yet another dumb move, albeit unintentionally. Sometimes in my pain I forget how to look at things from another person's (my wife's) perspective. That's an important perspective that I can't forget.

Hi BB,

I've followed your other threads and know a little bit about yours and Magpie's story. I know she's taken a beating here on these boards. ((((Magpie))). Actually, now that I think of it, you took a beating from time to time too. I must say, I have been very impressed with your strength and resolve. You've been working your butt off to save your marriage and should be commended for that.

The exercize you're describing is straight out of the book "Getting the Love You Want" by Harville Hendrix. I just happen to be reading the book now on the advice of our MC. Hendrix's approach (known as Imago Therapy) is very similar to MB. But from what I can tell, he goes into more depth about how a person's childhood contributes to the choosing of a marriage partner and eventual conflict in the marriage. His approach is a combination of healing those childhood wounds and "behaving" your way into a more fulfilling marriage. But he strongly recommends that you read the book to understand the "why" behind each of the exercises before jumping into the exercises themselves. You might want to pick up a copy. Just a thought.

Hang in there Bird. I'm pulling for you both.

--SC

Hi again BB,

I'm sorry, unlike SC, i do not know your story. i hope my first post did not come off to harsh. i wanted to respond but didn't have much time so i was pretty short.

so lets just make sure i am clear to you this time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

i am sure you have nothing but the best intentions.

given what i have put my BH through, i have a very high opinion of all BHs willing to work on recovery.

you are a hero of your family.

so, with that understanding, we can continue <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

i believe theses things are VERY demonstrable. i believe the MC wanted you to each make a list because YOU are the best person that can say exactly what actions make you feel loved and cared about.

regarding this comment:
are you really sure about that?? do you really think she does not care??? because unless she has flat out said, "BB i really don't care about your pain" your stmt "nor does she really care" is a disrespectful judgement and a pretty big one at that. and as we all know DJs hurt relationships. please try not to judge her so harshly.

however, i do think you should examine the actions that are giving you the impression that she does not care (i guess i am assuming she has not in fact stated that she does not care). so what actions (or lack of actions) are giving you the impression that she does not care? can you answer that question. because if you can, then i think you can put together a list that will help you start to feel loved and cared for which is the whole point of the exercise <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

as far as if she understands your pain or not. you could very well be right, she may not understand. i'm pretty sure that in time she will <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


HI SC!!! i miss you!!!

SC -

Thanks for the info on the book. I'll have to ask our MC about it tomorrow, though it would explain why he seems to have such an interest in my relationship with my mother while I was growing up, and her subsequent (a few years back) suicide. I've been trying to figure out why he has such an interest in that for a month now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Finally Learning -


Not harsh at all. In return, I hope I didn't come across as defensive. One of the things I've really been trying to do over the last couple of months is not get defensive when people tell me things, but try and meet it with an open mind.


That makes sense, when you put it like that. I only came up with 5 things....either I need to think harder or I'm very easy to please. (If you ask my wife, she'd probably say I need to think harder <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).


We talked about this some 2 nights ago. She asked me how I was feeling, because I'd been struggling with hurt and anger all weekend (angry outbursts are one of my big LBs from previously, and I am literally terrified of ever having one again. Fortunately, while I came way too close for comfort this weekend, I did not completely lose it). I told her that I felt she did not understand how badly I have been hurt by all of this, and that I believed or felt that she was not yet in a position where she was willing and/or able to really care.

Hmmm...if that wasn't a DJ, that was probably pretty close, in hindsight. I would venture to say that a lot of this stems from her lack of remorse, lack of apology, and lack of forgiveness from her for those things that I did wrong (and there were many, many, many of them). I do realize that those things will (hopefully) come in time, and we're still way early in recovery, but sometimes it gets a little overwhelming and I just can't seem to push the hurt, anger, resentment, etc aside.

I will be brining this up tomorrow with our MC (my only complaint with him is that I feel he is not concerned enough about my anger and my inability to effectively deal with it), and my wife is all for me getting it dealt with.

Maybe I should start my own thread, lest I continue to threadjack this one. Thanks for your responses and insights.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi FL. I miss me too. If you find me, let me know okay? LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

deal <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

how are you doing?? i've been quiet but i am here, lurking...

BB,

I'm not sure if you will be back to read this... but i hope so, we certainly do not mind any threadjacking here.

i wanted to comment on a few things, you said:


i see it the opposite way actually, if YOU cannot come up with many ideas of actions that make you feel cared for and loved, how hard must it be for your wife?? if you want to make it easy on her, give her a bigger list to choose from!!!

to me this demonstrates she cares, if she didn't she would not have asked you.

my DH and I were given a trick once to determine if what was being shared was feelings or thoughts. if you can re-place the word "feel" with "think", you are not sharing a feeling, you are sharing a thought.

so in your above example.... "I told her I felt she did not understand...", that is not a feeling, it does not pass the test. "I told her I think she does not understand". it's a thought of yours and it is a thought where you have made a judgement of her. i not so very kind judgement. now you are feel to make judgements all you want. i just wanted to point out, you did not share your feelings, you shared a judgement of her.

feelings can be hard to articulate, i hear it is especially hard for men <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

so let's keep trying!!!

telling her, "i don't think you care for me" is not a constructive thing.

telling her, "I don't feel cared about" is different.

it might sound like the same thing but it really is not.

and then following it up with.... "this" would help me feel cared about.

can you try brainstorming right here right now for examples of "this"?

i think you should really try to answer the question i posed to you earlier:

what actions (or lack of actions) are giving you the impression that she does not care?

YOU need to own understanding yourself to know, and then explain to your W, what you need.

regarding all of this:
that was not just close, that is a true blue DJ.

and so is the rest of what you continued to say to me...
notice i did not bold lack of apology. that is an action and if she has not said those words to you then that is a fact, not a judgement on your part.

however, "lack of remorse"... how can you say you know what she feels in this area??

"lack of forgiveness from her" ... how do you know she has not or at least is not trying to forgive you.

i hope these are things you are both talking about.

anyway, i hope these thoughts help you. i am not trying to 2x4 ya or anything, just give you another's perspective.

That's the 64-thousand dollar question. I'm not trying to be coy. I honestly don't know the answer to that.

I was reading some of my old threads last week, hoping to pull out bits of wisdom I may have missed the first time around... or things I've lost focus of that would help me get back on track. Instead, it just depressed me. I don't feel as though I've made any progress in the last month or so.

I feel like my marriage is sort of... I don't even know how to describe it... on auto-pilot while I sort through my personal junk. Meantime, the weekly IC sessions leave me feeling like Humpty Dumpty after the fall. And to top it all off, all this "working in myself" stuff just makes me feel so self-absorbed. Do you know what I mean? Like I've got this voice inside my head screaming, "GET OVER IT, ALREADY, AND PULL YOURSELF TOGETHER!!!".

UGH.

Sorry to be such a downer. Aren't you glad you asked? LOL

yes, i am glad i asked.

how about some more questions...

define pull yourself together... can you put concrete "stuff" around that thought??

do you think IC is helping?

are you glad the marriage is on auto-pilot or is that a negative thing?

BUMP ^ (yes that is for you SC)

how come we keep ending up on page 2 anyway??

Okay, okay, you big pest! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


From the outside, very few people would know anything is "wrong". I go to work, take care of the kids, pay the bills, plan the birthday parties (Two of them in 3 weeks! Not great "family planning" on my part, lol)... yada, yada, yada. But most of the time, I'm all knotted-up inside. The first thing I do when I walk into my counselor's office each week is start crying. He says it's an indication to him how "tightly wound" I must be the rest of the time. He's right.


As hard as it is, I would have to say yes. I saw a quote yesterday. I think it was "the shell must crack before the bird can fly". I think I must be in the "cracking" stage now. I hope so, anyway.



I have no idea. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

i read this early this morning and the only thought i have is:

i can't help her, i feel the same way!!!! on the outside, holding it all together, on the inside anxious and uncomfotable all the time.

as i was driving in this morning (even before seeing this post) i was thinking maybe i would start a new post for me to discuss where i'm at. but i have not done so.

i see you took a crack at it, good for you!!!

i am not going to IC anymore, i feel screwed up still but i'm not sure i was making any progress there. i feel like i've gone as far as i am going to go with her. seems to me like she tends to try to justify how i'm feeling instead of helping me get to the bottom of it.

and don't even try telling me to find another IC. i really don't want to try to do that!!!

FL,
Here's just a thought for you. What do you think would happen if you took a short break from all the digging and self analysis? For just a little while. Try to take just a couple of days -- or maybe even a week if you're feeling really adventurous -- to simply enjoy life. Lots of deep breathing. Taking joy in the small things. Maybe start a gratitude journal or something. I get the feeling that you've gotten into the habit of beating yourself up. What do you think would happen if you cut yourself some slack and just alowed yourself to "BE" for a bit? Allowed those self-inflicted bruises to begin healing.

And if you can't do it for yourself, do it for me and let me know how it goes. Maybe I should try it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

--SC

ok here's my story. Posted here long ago telling my story, I think under the name, "dontwanttolosehim", I THINK. Wanted to post again for advice. Couldn't get correct password. Password had already been issued under another name, so if you look under prev posts from payingnow, they are from my husband, who I didn't know was on here posting. So I know its all confusing if you look at all the previous posts listed under paying now.
To make a long story short: I had an A. H and I went to counseling some. Did not work. H wanted to quit going. He filed for D. Then decided he wanted to try and work on M with these stipulations...I move with him out of state, I resume counseling, get a job (was staying at home with son at the time, with one on the way), and to get my mother to stop saying bad things about him. I got a job, my mother now keeps her mouth shut. He hasnt moved us, and refused to go back to counseling. This was in Feb 2005. I found out the other day that he was having an affair with a co-worker, although he denies this. He doesn't call it an affair. He now says he wants out, is not happy, does not love me like he should. Yet, he holds me, touches me, makes love to me (maybe he thinks of it as just sex). is it time for me to give up?

payingnow, I kind of figured you were posting under your H's screen name. Do you WANT to give up? If you have not already get the book Surviving An Affair. Read Harley's concepts on the site. If you want to save the M then you need to start plan A. There are some of us here (myself included)who were the WS first and are now the BS. Start your own thread. Get some serious help. Have you exposed the A?

thanks a lot SC, those tears i have felt just below the surface finally came flooding out after reading just 1/2 of your post.

how does a person go about taking a break from themself?

my emotions will not stay calm. too much stress.

i should not be like this!!! i have no reason to be so upset. JL told me once that he wonders "what does this woman fear so much for??"

i've been wanting to answer that question ever since he posed it. unfortunately I DON"T KNOW!!!

I have not exposed the affair? Exactly to whom? Maybe I feel like I shouldn't becuase afterall, I deserved the retaliation. I did speak with the OW on the phone. She denied it as well, said she was a married woman and didn't know what I was talking about and then transferred the call back to my H. All my H has said about the email I found was "I didn't sleep with her", although the email suggests more than, much more, than being friends. I'm not stupid, I already know how the game works. I did it myself. I dont want to give up. But I feel hopeless now. I just dont understand what is going on. He tells me he wants out, and then suggests that we (me, him and our two boys) go away for the weekend. I dont want a divorce, I dont want out. On the other hand, I can't hardly live with his lies anymore. He lies about everything. I mean everything. I want this to work, but if he doesn't then what am I to do? I tried a reverse plan A after my affair was exposed.. But evidently it didn't work with him.

If you have evidence of the A (even if not a PA)then expose to OWH. Just because you had an A first does NOT justify him having an A, ok?

Will this not push my husband further away? The other woman just got married last weekend. I'm not sure if she even knew her husband then or not. I just found the email the other day, but it was dated from August 04. My husband was cleaning out his work email account before he left his other job and by mistake he screwed up and sent the email to his yahoo email address instead of deleting it/sending it to one of his other secret adresses. Out of anger I told him that I was going to contact his regional supervisor and let him know about he and ow, I also asked him if OW was dating her new H at the time he had an A with her. He said "it doesn't matter know anyway", were getting a D.
Can someone explain to me the affection I'm getting from him, now that he has decided that he wants out? I don't know where to turn. I've cried so much, I know everyone at work here is getting sick of my moodiness, crying, bitchiness. I don't want to lose this man. Even after all of his lies, verbal abuse. I know that this is really not the way he his. I have made him this way. Even after all this I still want to stand beside him. Why is it that I'm willing to forgive him but he can't forgive me? I'm sorry to be so "whiny", I'm just at a dead end...or so it feels.

Ok, paying...calm down. It is not over yet. Look up the thread by sendmeonmyway. It will encourage you. If the email was that long ago then at this point don't worry about exposure.

Have you made the changes in yourself? Have you eliminated LB's? Get the book. Do the MB plan. It may still turn around.