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That's what I want to hear! Thanks, Kim.
"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
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Well... he FINALLY got it!
After three weeks since the PBL, we needed to organize something with one of the kids, and WH sent an e-mail. His first! I think it's finally sunk in that I meant what I wrote.
A teeny tiny victory today!
"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
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OK so I've been doing really well and VERY careful not to ask the children what their dad is up to, and I make sure that when they talk to their dad they're in another room. But today I couldn't help it (not that I couldn't help myself, it was an inescapable sitch) and I overheard D18 talking to WH. From the gist of it, I gleaned he's three hours away in the city, doing something recreational (I think a concert of some kind); probably with OW. It's brought me down SO damned low! Particularly since these past couple of days I've been thinking about what a stick-in-the-mud he'd got over the past several years. It was always to ME to organize outings and things, and then I had to give him all this notice so he could free himself up from work. He barely took me anywhere. His inability to nurture our joint friendships meant that we ended up with almost no "couple" friends and I had to have a social life of my own. Sigh... and here is, smack dab in the middle of the week, off work, three hours away, whooping it up, probably with the OW.
Sigh... it's a silly, small thing, but it's kinda wrecked me today. I was doing so well, I didn't think such a small thing would. Maybe I was hoping he was pining for me, missing me just as much as much as I've been missing him since the I went into Plan B. I feel like a real IDIOT.
"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
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Hi everyone, just popping in to celebrate...
THE ONE-MONTH ANNI OF THE PBL!
Some facts and figures. I sent it on the 30th but NC began a few days after that, so we've had 34 days of Plan B. Out of those 34 days, he's contacted me six times about kids, and I think I spoke about a dozen words in total. I haven't spoken to WH in 17 days, and that was only one word ("Sure").
I miss him, but it's getting easier.
The one thing that worries me at the moment is that Plan B is meant to help me move on with my life should he never come back, and I am nowhere near that.
"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
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PBL? What the heck is that? Peanut butter and lettuce. That sounds nasty! How about EHM. Eggrolls and hot mustard! Now that is worth celebrating. Plan B is to detach to retain what love is left. Plan B is a step away from the chaos and destruction. Plan B is for the time to mend your heart and become the strong YOU!
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RT -
Hey - way to go!! See, you CAN do this too!!
Now, can you get it arranged so he is only contacting you through an e-mail or letter? Hearing your voice most likely gives him a bit of a fix.
Hope you are doing well!!!
Kim
D-Day May 14th, 2005 Married 16 Years DS age 8 6 months Plan A Plan B 10-11-05, H moved back in June 2007, Very False Recovery. 2nd Day-Day 7/7/08 Kicked WH Out. Plan B for my sanity "Enjoy the little things, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things." Robert Brault
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PBL? What the heck is that? Peanut butter and lettuce. That sounds nasty! How about EHM. Eggrolls and hot mustard! Now that is worth celebrating. Plan B is to detach to retain what love is left. Plan B is a step away from the chaos and destruction. Plan B is for the time to mend your heart and become the strong YOU! LOL, BKarl! (Although PBC - peanut butter and carrots - is pretty darned good.) But the way I understood it, Plan B has two purposes: the one you describe, and also to get you on your way and detaching should the WS not ever come back. So far, I'm doing well on the healing my heart/preserving remaining love deal, but not so well on the other. Ah well, hopefully it's happening w/o me noticing.
"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
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RT -
Hey - way to go!! See, you CAN do this too!!
Now, can you get it arranged so he is only contacting you through an e-mail or letter? Hearing your voice most likely gives him a bit of a fix. Thanks, Kim. Actually, in my post above on 1/19, I said how WH FINALLY "got it" and sent an email re the kids. I'm sure he's got the picture and it's sunk in that I meant what I said in the PBL and he will comply. If nothing else, I think he's got enough guilt about his whacko behavior that he will at least do this. So yeah! I'm hanging in here! And you know, tough as Plan B can get, I KNOW it's the right thing to do. I can't imagine that it'll do anything but good, one way or the other.
"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
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Hi RT, this was right next to mine, so I saw it and thought we could talk to ourselves together. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner. ~ English proverb Neak's Story
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Hee hee. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
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I tell you people, she's REALLY starting to damage my CALM!!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />
FN
Divorced April 26 2007...
REMARRIED to a wonderful woman October 13, 2012!
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Tam- I read your story, and the memories flood back! The text messages, the sudden bursts of anger for no apparant reason.
there are a few things that really stand out to me, and I wondered if you can see them as well:
The night of the graduation, I am certain that you are right. OW was scared, and needed to send messages to him to make sure he didn't forget about her.
I also think that night he was really faced with the reality of what he is doing. He realized that he is now an outsider, and it is his own darn fault. He wasn't comfortable, he was not enjoying this happy time in his sons life. and it some how has to be your fault. it just has to be. Because no sane, intelligent, honorable man would choose to be an outsider in his own sons life.
A smiliar incident I had with my WxH - thanksgiving dinner with his family. I was calm, friendly, chatted with everyone as usual. WxH was quiet, moody, kept sending text messages to OW. By the end of the day he became completley irrational, mean, and nasty. I did nothing to make him angry - but the reality of his own situation did. I heard all the same lines you did - I should have left you years ago, I don't know why I stayed as long as I did.
It was only about 6 months later that his R with OW was completely over, and suddenly he did not remember half the ugly things he said, and the few things he did remeber he said "I was just angry, I didn't mean all those things" (we were divorced at the time, and I decided not to reconcile - long story)
also- reading your story I was struck with the impression that your WH actually started his A before he left. Would you agree with that? Let me tell you why I say that - he had withdrawn from you for at least 3 weeks. that is usually a sign that they are all ready emotionally involved with someone else. he was struggling with himself. he wanted to "do the right thing" but he also wanted to "follow his heart". He was looking for a way to dump his wife and children, run off with his mistress, and not look too bad. But he couldn't really come up with a good plan. so he withdrew into himself. I am sure he was also trying to pick a fight with you. By ignorning you, and withdrawing, he knew you would become angry. then, there would be a big blow up, and he would have an "excuse" to leave. when he first told you that he was contacting old girl friends - he had all ready been involved wtih OW for weeks at that point. He was trying to gradually get you used to the idea. He figured that if everyone thought that he left, and then waited a while, and then started to contact old friends, and later became involved, everyone would accept his realationship with OW. Meanwhile, he was telling OW that he had to keep her secret for "a little while longer". I am 100% certain that his relationship with her started before he left. That is one of the reasons he is so angry now. You are not following his plan. You were supposed to get into a big fight, he would leave, later he would start "contacting other women" and eventually start "dating" and then everyone would be a big happy family. But none of that is happening - so it must be your fault. the fact is - you two did have a decent relationship. I just can not see him walking away from that, without someone else all ready lined up. the 3 weeks of withdrawing from you wree CLASSIC signs that he had all ready checked out mentally.
when my WxH first left, he did not try to hide OW. He thought she was wonderfull, and he wanted to tell everyone to know about her. Later, I talked to her H and found out that on his D day, she initially told her H that there was "no one else - she was not seeing anyone - she just wanted a D" After about three weeks, she told her H that "she has started seeing someone now - you know him - her old friend from work" . OW told a mutual friend of ours that WxH "should not have told his wife that there is another woman right away, he should have just left, and kept it secret for awhile, and then later he could tell people, and it would have been easier. That is what I did when I left my H" the mutual friend said "that would have been dishonest" and OW said "well, I guess that is just between me and God".
I just hate for you to beat yourself up, thinking that something you said during those last 3 weeks made him leave, and then find someone. he had all ready checked out of the M at that point, and was looking for a way out.
I think your WH is really struggling right now. Hang in there. This marriage is far from over.
Married 18 years D Day June 25, 2003 Divorced December 17, 2003
Newly married to a wonderful man!
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Good golly WOF! Thanks so much for your post! You're right, I can see many similarities there.
Honestly, I am fully willing to consider that WH may have been having the affair before, and you're not the first person to suggest it. Nonetheless, I just don't think so. Ever since this nightmare started my opinion of many things has changed and one opinion I've chucked out the window is, "A wife knows!" So I can't resort to that any more. But if nothing else, his whereabouts could be confirmed at any given time and the OW lives 1 1/2 hours away. At any rate, this all LOTS of food of thought, and I am very grateful.
You're spot on about the graduation, btw. When I asked him why he was so down, he said, "Because I realize just how broken everything is." And I replied, "Yes; and you broke it."
"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
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RT, the one whose dreams you need to worry about is Neaksis. That girl has problems!
A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner. ~ English proverb Neak's Story
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"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
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OK so... I've been thinking and wondering, in your experienced opinion: is what my WH having an exit affair? Maybe things weren't that good between us after all, and I remember them differently than he does. Maybe he really DID have enough of me and this is his, "What the he11, it's over anyway" moment. Added to the fact that I always told him (as he told me) and if either of us ever had an affair, it would mean that things were well and truly over, and the person who did it would never expect to be forgiven. (Yes, we said that! But we were different people then.) And if it IS an exit affair, what does it mean? Is it curtains for our marriage? I don't want positive strokes here, I want honest opinions! I've posted my story below again for reference. RT's SAGA
OK, I've finally written my story up! Just thought I’d post it for the record. It’s LONG, but here goes:
Everything seemed to happen out of the blue. When I say “out of the blue”, I know exactly what that sounds like. Every time I’ve heard that phrase applied to relationship breakdowns in the past, I’ve thought, “Out of the blue? Nothing comes out of the blue!” So yes, I know it must have been coming, for a couple of months, but the force of this, the destruction, the totality of it, as taken both of us by surprise.
First, you a potted history of our relationship. WH and I have been what I can best describe as passionate best friends. I’m challenging to live with: fiery and hopeless at resolving conflict. Because my mother believed that crying in front of your husband was manipulation, I grew up believing the same, so that whenever WH hurt me, I either lashed out, or withdrew, or both. WH used to be a wonderful person, warm and open, but has also been challenging to live with: he has a very demanding job, where he has had to put me and the children second, if not in his heart, at least in actions. He’s had many crises throughout his life, and I used to joke that he’s been having a midlife crisis every year since we met. But despite that, there’s been a lot of forgive-and-forget, love, intimacy, support, and belief in each other and the relationship, and of course the family as a whole. We had strong convictions about the importance of marriage and families. Our children are living testament not just to our love for them, but our love for each other. People often commented on how close and affectionate we were. So yeah, we were both pretty smug in our relationship. We also said that we’d never, ever let things get to the stage where we couldn’t work them out.
In the past couple of years, WH went out on his own and opened his own business. He’s busier than ever, putting in tremendous hours and effort, and as always, getting personally involved with just about everyone who walks in the door. But a couple of months before he left, I started to notice him withdrawing, which he’s done many, many times in the past. Spending less and less time at home and with the children, not talking to me much, and he was ultra-tired (he suffers from sleep apnea so I’m understanding of him in this). He seemed down. He didn’t seem to be enjoying anything much. He was spending most of his time at work. But this time there was something different: he was not including me in business decisions, or in the paying of our household bills, or even telling me much about his day, I just felt more and more unnecessary. I was hurting like I’d never hurt before, but I did what I always do: I lashed out occasionally, and withdrew. Major LB’ing. (Although granted, there were periods of closeness during this time. We still made love, and went for walks, something we find very unifying. As a matter of fact on one of these walks, we were talking about the marriage breakup of a couple we know, and once again we discussed how we always said we’d work things out if they got unbearable. I said to him, “Is there anything about our marriage that you’d like to change?” and he replied, “I wish the dog wasn’t allowed inside the house.” When I told him I was serious, he said no, everything was to his satisfaction.) This situation continued for weeks, and finally, those last three weeks, things became unbearable. We weren’t friends any more. He wasn’t drawing closer to me, I wasn’t drawing closer to him, I was rude. When he said, “I love you”, I’d say, “No you don’t. You don’t spend time with me, you don’t listen to me, so what exactly do you love?” There are probably other things I cannot recall. I know I was beastly those three weeks, and hold myself entirely responsible for my actions. Finally, when things got nowhere, I gave an ultimatum: “I’m leaving”.
When he asked me what I hoped to achieve, I said, “I need some distance. I need to regain some sense of control. Then maybe we can get some help.” And he said, “I’ll have to think about it.” That made me see red! I felt he was controlling everything, and now HE had to think about ME leaving? I stewed over it for a couple of days, and gave him an ultimatum. I either left, or we got divorced, and I’d take the children away, and I was giving him a couple of days to think about it. Horrible, horrible things, I know. A couple of days later, we had a huge fight, and I pushed him, and pushed him, and when he was about to say “I love you”, I gave him the same old spiel, but this time I added, “You don’t love me, do you? Why can’t you just say it?” And he did. And he said it was over.
It killed me. You see, for whatever has happened, we have always said we’re the love of each other’s lives. And then what did I do? I backpedaled as fast as I could, of course, bloody idiot that I am, to try to fix things. He told me that my withdrawal was the worst thing I ever could have done to him. It is abuse, and for me to ask him to come back was like asking him to live with his abuser. I pleaded, pleaded, and pleaded. I promised to put the behavior behind me. And although after a few days he admitted that yes, he does love me (“Although it’s not the same”), the answer was no: not for me, not for him, not for the children, not for the family unit, not for anything, not with counseling, not with anything. I don’t know how, but finally, I extracted a promise that by virtue of the twenty years we’ve spent together, and because of the children, he would go, but think about things while he was gone and see whether he really did want to end the relationship.
Those first few weeks I still pleaded, still entreated, gave him all the reasons why he should come back, but something strange was happening: he was revising history. Suddenly, he was saying that I have been making him feel about himself for twenty years, that I had NOT been a good wife. That the children don’t need me, and they’d be fine without me. All the promises I made, he said, “They’re everything I’ve waited to hear for twenty years, but they come three weeks too late.” Despite him saying that we’re best friends, he started behaving like a real jerk, jumping down by throat for any little thing I said, finishing my sentences without knowing actually what I was going to say, devaluing every opinion, getting this little smirk on his face when I was opening my heart to him, and many other things which are just too hurtful to recount. We’d decided we’d have two family nights together per week, to keep some sense of closeness with the children, but his attitude, his body language, his everything, it was so clear he didn’t want to be here, despite the children. Fifteen days after he left, he said to me, “I’ve been visiting old girlfriends, trying to rekindle old relationships”. This amazed me – and tortured me inside – but I put it out of my mind.
In the end, I had to shut up, basically. He told me that I made him feel manipulated when I talk to him, and I had to leave him be if he was to make the proper decision about coming back. So I did. What did I do for the rest of the time? I worked on myself. Hard, hard soul work, making changes, taking care of myself emotionally, spiritually and physically while maintaining a normal life for the children. Things at home began to get better: there was a good spirit here rather than the oppressive, “Dad’s gone, mum’s going nuts” spirit of before. I was hopeful that WH would feel this when he visited, and begin to crave it. I was loving, friendly, and warm towards WH, not pressuring him in any way.
But things didn’t change. On a trip away for a specialist appointment for S10, he broke the news: he wasn’t coming back. And he said EXACTLY the same things he said when he left: that he didn’t trust me, and had no reason to trust me. That he was protecting “little WH” from me. Rather than concentrating on what we have, he just kept going back and back to everything that had gone wrong during our life together. He made it sound hellish. He said I’ve spend twenty years making him feel bad about himself, that he DIDN’T know I love him and want him in my life, could see no evidence of it. When I said he was being selfish, he smirked and said, “Sorry!” When I said that he was putting himself ahead of the children and the family, he was so offended! And he went on to say that the children were not a consideration, because his psychologist (who has no children, by the way) said children suffer more in a home where the parents are unhappy with each other. He said he’s felt alone for the past seven years or so, which was news to me. And he was nasty. He would NEVER come back. Why – people down at the street had stopped him and said, “I don’t know how you stood living with her!”
A little while after that, WH had an episode I can only describe as insane. He became irrational and took it out on me and ALL our three children. We were left quivering and frightened, but it was suddenly obvious that this wasn’t just about the marriage. There was something else going on. A professional suggested MLC, and I would have fobbed the idea off if it hadn’t been a professional, because my idea of MLC was something that happened to superficial jerks and it involved a blonde bimbo, a sportscar and a toupee, right? Wrong. I studied up, and lo and behold: this was my WH, following a script, to the letter.
A month later, he reveals the existence of an OW: “just a friend”. An old friend, she rang him up, shocked, when she heard we’d separated, he said. She was helping him through his “grief”, he said. Nothing had happened yet, he said, but it looked like the relationship would develop. I hadn’t met his needs, and now he was going to have someone who did, he said. I reacted fine. I told him I didn’t judge him. But I treated our meeting like an interview. What made him think he could begin a new relationship before the old one was finished. He said that he’d considered our marriage over the minute he walked out the door. I told him what he thought he could give another woman’s children when he didn’t make time for his own. I told him there was no room for a third person in a marriage. I asked him to stop seeing her. He didn’t reply, just got this little smile on his face. I was devastated, but I kept on keeping on. He began parading her in town straight away.
During all of this, since I decided to “shut up”, I took the high road. I was loving, warm, friendly, and light in our everyday convos. I decided that anger and bitterness would have no place in me, and I would act accordingly. When he’d left and told me his reasons, I was able to see through the pain to where he had a point, and set about making the changes. Changes he refused to see, or trust, but that wasn’t the point of them. I truly wanted to become a better person, with or without him. I suppose this was my Plan A, before I knew anything about it.
Things went on. Even though he was short-tempered on occasion, I set boundaries and learnt not to address “the man in the black hat” and only addressed WH when he was normal, and polite. The normal and polite person began to make more and more of an appearance. Our communication increased. I was able to open up a dialogue about MLC and IMS, and he was receptive. He was suspicious, and took any of my attempts to help him as a ruse to lure him back into our marriage, but I assured him that I wanted to help him because I love him and care about him, not because I have any vested interest.
Then, something happened. On our 20th wedding anni in October, I decided to write him a love letter. It was an open heart surgery of a letter, and I put a lot of time and thought into it. I gave it to him that morning. That night, I was at the supermarket picking up a few things, when I see him at the end of an aisle. Good, I thought, I’ll be able to say hello. I round the corner… and he is talking and laughing to a young woman, blonde, pretty. I say hello, and he introduces me to the OW. He was spending the night of our 20th anni with the OW! To this day I don’t know how I managed to nod and smile. I walked out of there, barely aware that my legs were moving. I paid for my purchases, without my brain working. I drove home, and amazingly didn’t run off the road. I got home… and collapsed. D18, who was there, said that I “made a noise like a wounded animal”. She rang him up and called him a “f*****g a**hole”, yelling things that I was too boggled to process. I thought I was going to die from the pain. Somehow I slept and made it through the night.
The next day, on the way to the city, I get a phone call from WH. He says, “I want to apologize for last night. I told OW that it was our anniversary, and I didn’t want her to visit me that day [she lives 1 1/2 hours away and visits are usually overnight], but she rang after I’d read your letter, and I was crying and couldn’t stop, so she decided to come and stay and help me through it.” I laughed, but still thanked him for his honesty and apology.
A few weeks later, it was D18’s graduation. He behaved like an absolute JERK. He barely made an effort to be anything other than a sad sack. He kept going outside for fresh air because he felt "sick", and inside, did a lot of texting (the OW, I assume - who else? He never used to text anyone). Then he refused to have a photo taken with his daughter. He had one dance with her, and left without saying goodbye to me or anyone at the table. And even though I was just lovely all night, soon after he leaves, I get the following text: “Can’t believe what an idiot i was to put up with so much s**t for such a long time. Thanks. Hated every minute tonight."
Since then, he’s been an absolute nightmare. With hindsight, I've come up with a theory: what I believe happened is that the OW felt incredibly threatened at the letter I sent him and the fact that he had feelings for me there there, and decided to step up her efforts and move from a supportive role to that of lover and wife, and that's where the PA began. (Not excusing WH's behvaiour, but she's a definite predator. Her first H left HIS first wife and children for her when she was 17 y.o.) This, to me, is what caused the change in behavior in those few weeks between our anni and the graduation.
And although my behavior has been exemplary all this time, I didn’t take his behavior at the graduation lying down.
After that text message, I rang him back. He tried bringing up the past, and I was assertive, and he hung up on me. I rang him back, he answered, and hung up on me again. So I went to his place, and we had it out. For over an hour at his front door we had it out. I didn't get angry, but I was in an assertive, logical place. He, on the other hand, was all over the place. I stood up for myself, set boundaries again, and felt very empowered. Here he was, supposedly "moved on", and we're supposedly not together anymore, forever and ever, so what was he doing bringing this stuff up? He thought it was perfectly within his rights to express the anger he suppressed for twenty years! I told him he gave up the right to express any anger at me the day he gave up on our marriage. He insisted he did, I gave him a kind of "What UNIVERSE do you live in that this is acceptable?" reply, and after a lot of back-and-forth, the "DO NOT TRESPASS" sign was up. I told him next time he was angry and wanted to take it out on someone, that he should ring up the OW and be rude to her instead. It's her job now. He said he couldn't blow up at her. I said, "Who are you pretending with? You're either pretending to her that this is not you, or you're pretending to me that it is. So what is it?" He had no answer.
He’s been so nasty since then – ringing up for no reason, just to blow up, and taking offence at ANY little thing I did, even when it doesn’t concern him – that I had a couple of “I’m sick of your crap” moments. At no point did I get nasty, but I was assertive, and I told him exactly what I thought about the situation, and about our marriage from my side of things. A month or so ago, I wrote him a LONG letter (8 pages!) which was designed to bring me closure. I rang him up and read it to him, and then e-mailed it to him for good measure. While he took the letter in his stride at the time, bits that he was offended at have been coming out in conversation ever since. I felt I was doing the right thing at the time, but now I have to wonder whether the letter and things I said destroyed the good work I did all these months. (Though sense tells me probably not. Even when I was behaving beautifully, he STILL got angry, for no reason anyone could see.)
Last thing was on the 24th of December, when WH was unspeakably nasty because I refused to allow him to play happy families with S10, he and the OW on Christmas day. He was so nasty (details elsewhere in other posts) that I knew I had to retreat away from him as fast as possible. On the 25th of December, I saw him at church; gave him a kiss on the cheek, wished him Merry Christmas, and left. In the couple of days after that, I contacted him through email about the children and finances; rather than email me back, he would ring. Shortly after THAT, I found this site, found out about Plans A and B, discovered that I've unwittingly been following Plan A all this time, and decided to implement Plan B straight away. I sent him the letter through e-mail on 30 December.
I knew I had to cease contact with him, for my self preservation as much as anything else: since this woman has come into our lives, his guilt makes him strike out at me, and so it’s clear that contact is impossible while she’s in the picture, although I’ve tried. Indeed, I think guilt hit him straight away because of the THOUGHTS of adultery he had from the beginning, after all, he started seeking solace in other women with his “visiting old girlfriends, trying to rekindle old relationships” just a couple of weeks after leaving.
From day to day, I veer from hope to despair. As far as my marriage goes, that is. I have no doubt that I’ll come out of this far better than I went in – already this is true, such is my personal growth – and there is a purpose to all of this.
And that’s my story. If you’ve read this far, full marks for stamina!
"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Tam,
I have to say your story and mine sound so much alike.
I never had a clue anything was wrong he didn't talk to me to let me know how he was feeling. Mine said he has been unhappy for the last 5 years , you could have fooled me. If that was unhappiness I would love to see what his version of happy was....
I have been like you set boundries and have been as warm and loving as possible. Never an angry work or action towards him.
Our WH'S have reacted in the same way. Everything is anger from mine now, no matter what is said and done by me. Only difference now is mine has filed for the big D. I see its going to happen.
I wish you the best..... It's scary to see how simular they are, they must have read the same WS script.....
Take Care Tam , we will make it through this and come out on the otherside better people....
Hurting
BS (Me)- 47 WH - 46 Married- 24 yrs 3 children 15,19,22 2 grandsons D-Day- June17, 2005 while I was 1400 miles away WH living with OW since July 05 WH filed divorce papers Dec. 22, 05 Divorced granted June 28, 06
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Thanks, Hurting, and best of luck to you.
Last edited by RiverTam; 02/01/06 08:06 PM.
"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 591
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*bump*
Any takers for my question?
"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Posts: 591 |
And I wonder what other people think?
"No power in the 'verse can stop me."
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