Hi RT,

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
When parents are separated, they will go where it's easiest.
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I think this is exactly what is happening....

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
I miss my H, but hey, what's new? Other than that, life is very good indeed.
How are you today?
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...I am on the same page as you...thanks for asking....

...the situation has made me realize how much I can appreciate life... in the worst of circumstances..

...I am also surprising myself....after being in a 20-yr relationship... managing to go PLAN B on WS and being on my own all at the same time! ...it's quite a mouthful....but manageable....

Take care.

RT,

I was also wondering..... do you have a set financial agreement with your WS?

...one of the weird things I find in my situation is being both in PLAN B and financially still functioning as we did when WS was at home.... between the two of us...all obligations are being met..... neither us have gone the 'attorney' route.....yet!

..just wanted to compare 'notes' with you...

Yep, same with us. Think everyone is going to tell us off about this? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Hi RT,

.....you may be right....actually some of our friends insist sometimes that in order for me to be able to 'move on' we need to finalize our situation legally.... and stop thinking in terms of 'our' obligations...... and 'cut the ties' for good..... they see my N/C as just a way of 'avoiding' facing the situation and not accepting 'reality'.... I don't even try to explain about MB.... I just say that I am not 'there' yet....

....I also wonder sometimes if this does not make our PLAN B a little less effective in some way....with WS at some level still 'counting' on us.....but I guess nothing can be done 'perfectly'.....

...I don't remember now....although you may have mentioned it....easier to just ask: has your WS moved in with OW? where did they meet? How seriously is he 'addicted' to her?

my WS doesn't live with OW.... they are co-workers.... she left a 27-yr M for WS... wow... WS owes his 'soulmate' big time and is seriously 'addicted to her'....when the fantasy will fall apart...it will hit him hard I think...

....once, while he was trying to convince me to accept the situation and get my approval he tried to show me how their A was 'special' by trying to get me to 'sympathize' with OW....she was feeling guilty about what she was putting me through because she herself had been a BS and promised herself that she would never do it to another woman...guess she was wrong! ..... breaking her promise and destroying her 27-yr M is how OW made my WS feel really 'special'.... both feeling 'guilty' about what they did may be one of things that 'glues' them together..... they were destined to be together no matter the cost!

...my WS likes to keep OW and boys separate, though the boys know about dad's GF...the week he has boys....he sees OW at work....and I guess the week without the boys...he spends at her place...

...I remember clearly my WS once telling me that he would try to keep the 'romantic' level in this new R going as long as possible (easier feat than work on recovering our M) ...meaning... he doesn't want the 'fantasy' to end..... the one week apart...I guess...allows for many romantic 'hellos' and 'goodbyes'....

but OW is 'retiring' this year... and they won't see each other at work....although they have 'projects' together... this might change 'arrangements'.....

...also by not living together now.... I think WS is trying to 'normalize' our separation, get the boys more used to the idea, and remove the focus on the fact that he 'cheated and lied' on me....

...also RT.....as you can tell.....PLAN B at times feels like a limbo stage.... it's suggested to give it also a limit..... I will definitely wait to see what happens when WS and OW no longer work together - summer 2006....if WS moves to a bigger apt... are his intentions to then live with OW as well? and maybe give 6 months to 1 year after that....but then I wonder, even if WS comes knocking... after soooo long...or after having 'lived together' with OW... will I want to reconsider? ....or if WS doesn't come knocking.... will I want to necessarily stop N/C.... because I don't care to know WS.... and it eventually may come down to only wanting to formalize the 'financial' aspect of separation... can't see myself being 'friends' with WS or wanting to ever meet OW or see them together..... anyway... at this point...I am thinking too far ahead.... back to my 'day to day' mode which I am supposedly in right now....

....but I am curious to know if you have given yourself a timeframe..... or what you're thoughts are about this....if you have any limits...

...WS and I have 'rentals' together... so, my WS needs access to tools and materials that are in the house basement... so he needs access to house...so far....he has been respectful about it....we have crossed paths, due to misunderstandings, only on 2 occasions so far..... it sounds like your situation may be similar.... is it? ....although it looks like your WS can send his 'employees' to pick up things....

....by the way... I don't recall reading if you have contacted Steve Harley to get his 'take' on your situation.....have you?

...it looks like I am in a 'chit chatting' mood...sorry for the long post....

It was nice 'talking' to you.....

bumping for convenience of RT....

RT what do you think.....geesh.....miss one day and thread ends up on page 10!

Hoping you are having a good weekend.....

bumping...to keep thread from 'drowing' in the double figure pages......

I'm here, I'm here! Been away for a few days, but back now.


People outside this just DON'T get it. By and large, they also have a different view of what "moving on" is. I think 99.9999% of the time, when people ask us, "Why don't you move on?" they're talking about going out, dating again, and getting married again. Well... NO. Certainly that may be a part of it (eventually), but not now. Plan B and detaching emotionally, is true moving on. You're living your life as if they're not coming back, and keeping the measure of hope in your heart that your soul requires you to have. My shrink said that a person isn't ready to move on until they know that if their WS were to suddenly make a turnaround and want come back to the marriage, the BS would say, "No". That's a good guideline for me. I realize that one day I might feel this way. Right now, I don't.


Well... I don't know that he's counting on me. But one way or another we're still responsible for certain things, and unavoidably so. How many BSs get to stay in charge of the children (they are, after all, the one adult sane parent)? So yeah: within the Harleys' guidelines (children and finances) I think it's OK.


No, they're not living together. She lives 1 1/2 hours away. They knew each other a long time ago. When she heard about our separation, she rang him up to offer a shoulder to cry on, and then it was on. Just as I predicted, might I add. I always said my H wouldn't be unfaithful to me outright, but that if anything serious ever went wrong between us, that he'd go with the first angelic being who offered him solace. Lo and behold, it was so.

I have no idea how addicted he is to her. I've never heard him say he loves her, just that she "makes him happy". It could be he's not telling me he loves her to spare my feelings, but hey, why start now? After the betrayal, calling me a bad wife and mother and a f***ing b****, among other things? Because I'm staying dark the other way too (ie. asking NO questions about him of the children, asking the children to conduct their phone calls with him in a room with closed doors, etc), I don't exactly know what the deal is, except that I think he goes over there once a week and stays overnight, and she comes over here once a week. Other than that... there's the whole scenario where they didn't spend V-day together, I'm 99% sure he went away for the weekend for one of his club dinners alone, and next month there's a family reunion and the person he's taking is D18.


Isn't that what they say? The bigger the fantasy, the worse the wakeup?


Oh, BARF!

WH tried to get me to sympathize too, telling me he's supporting her through this drawn-out legal battle b/c her xH wants to move their sons out of the country so HE can be with HIS OW. (In a nutshell: OW's xH left HIS first wife and children for HER when she was 17 years old. A few years ago he left her for the new OW: an internet girlie in Canada. Did someone say, "chickens home to roost"? And the funny thing is that WH cannot see that this is a pattern for this woman, that she doesn't know how to "create" a H of her own: she must get a "ready-made" one. He cannot see how she's as culpable as her xH, and he blames her xH for everything, 100%, and cannot see ANY parallels between this man and himself.)


This is GREAT. WH doesn't. He promised me our youngest wouldn't found out, but then broke his promise. I let it ride b/c I thought that if I had him choose, WH would choose OW over him, but things reached a head on Christmas, when I realized WH wanted to play happy families and use our precious son as a prop, and I wasn't going to stand for it. So I drew another line, but in concrete this time. No trespassing!


Barf x 2!!!


Yep, that's me right there, just as you described your own sitch. I initially gave this a one-year limit, but that was before I knew about MB. (One year is the legal separation required for D here.) I'm giving Plan B 18-24 months total, or until I KNOW that if he came knocking, I'd say "Hit the road, Jack."


No, I haven't. On top of ordinary costs, it'd also be an international call, so it'd be pretty expensive. Worth saving up for, though! I'm definitely keeping it in mind.

Thanks for getting back to me, RT.

hummmm.....'international call'..... you got me curious....without being specific.... on what 'continent' are you?

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I'm giving Plan B 18-24 months total, or until I KNOW that if he came knocking, I'd say "Hit the road, Jack."
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...I agree....to be realist with PLAN B.... look at Believer's WS...after 3 yrs.... but by then I may react like B.....

I think I would have trouble reconciling if ever WS and OW live 'officially' together for any length of time .... right now 'officially' they each have their own apt.... but....I will have to wait and see..... I may never have the need to 'decide' anything....

...until next time...take care.

And so... nine months on, I hear that my WH is saying the same thing he's been saying from almost the beginning: that there is no way we'll ever get back together, and as soon as the year is up, he's going to be filing for divorce.

Oh sure, I know a WH/MLCer's words mean nothing, but can I pretend it doesn't hurt? Nope.

I overhead this info today from D18 talking to her best friend (our boarder, whose own parents are divorcing), so I wasn't seeking it. I had to take D18 aside and tell her I want to overhear NOTHING about her dad, and explained why. I explained that despite the condition of the Plan B letter, there is more to it than what it says, and her father is unaware of it. I explained that the letter has a condition that he must finish his A before he can have anything to do with me, and if he chooses her forever, then that means he chooses to let me go forever, because the fact is that since this woman has come into his life, he has become NO ONE that I want to know. I also explained that every moment I don't hear from her dad - or hear anything about him - is another step I am taking towards being free of him. I am moving on, which is exactly what he wanted me to do; only thing is that his idea of "moving on" involves another person, and mine involves looking within, and working with my Father to see where he wants me to go and what he wants me to do, and I know my Father will NEVER want me to "move on" by having an extramarital affair.

At any rate, if he keeps his word, I guess I have fewer than three months before there's a D. Great.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Hi RT,

quote:---------------------------------------------------
...since this woman has come into his life, he has become NO ONE that I want to know.
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E X A C T L Y.

....what I like about PLAN B.... the minimum condition is clear....OW must be out of the picture in order for WS to come out of the fog to give a chance for S to come forth..... until that condition is met....
reconciliation of M is not even on the table....

...and more importantly...it keeps ME 'in line'... so not to compromise.....and cheat ourselves of what we deserve (...in the sense of trying to find 'excuses' to be in contact with WS or get information about WS or settle for 'crumbs')....but rather hold out a life partner committed to his family...not necessarily perfect .... but at least with the intention and willingness to contribute to making life better for members of the family and not WORST.... meaning.... WS would have to stop being so SELFISH, and the starting point would be to end A with OW.... (I believe in the human spirit and imagination, and given enough time we can find ways to satisfy ourselves without it being at the expense of others....it may mean making some EFFORT.... but for me any 'person' is WORTH the effort... and even more so....if it's one that we particularly care about....)

anyway...WSs know where we to find us if they want to!

...my WS is continually wanting to 'break' my PLAN B and wanting to 'talk' to me.....'discuss' the boys with me....WS never imagined that he would not be in some sort of a 'relationship' with me BECAUSE we have the boys to raise....

....well...he was wrong...and the more time passes the more he gets 'frustrated'.... whereas, a bit like you, with each day it is getting EASIER for me..... and more importantly it's starting to show!

...as I keep telling WS....of course it would be better were we 'talking'.....it would be even better if we were working together to make our whole family life better.... (won't mention the fact that talking to a WS is wasting one's breath... because I don't believe a WS can really 'listen' when involved in an A and in the ME ME ME mode)

....I don't really have a problem staying away from WS.... it's S that I miss!

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
if he keeps his word, I guess I have fewer than three months before there's a D.
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....I don't believe just filing a D is a means to an end..... like a WS would like to think (or for that matter even a BS filing for a D if it's just hoping that IT will stop the 'pain')...... unresolved issues will remain unresolved issues... and no D paper will change that..... the 'process' cannot be 'skipped' by just filing a D......

...anyway... I am trying really hard to take the 'peace' provided by PLAN B to get to 'know' me better.... I am realizing I CAN be my own best friend.......WSs search for soulmate outside of themselves.....but I find that the real 'soulmate' is within us... a relationship with oneself can be so strong.... who knows us and our life experiences better than ourselves!? ....and it will last literally until 'death'....or even go beyond if there is life 'beyond'.....

...anyway..... I find PLAN B a good time for 'reflections'...... and to keep on learning about life......

I certainly benefit from sharing with the Board....

...and, being in PLAN B, I am particularly curious to see how other PLAN Bers are doing or did......

Uhm..... better arbitrarily stop here....or I could on for awhile...

Take care.

Very well put RT -

Kim

Thanks, Kim.

Lunamare, I totally agree with this:


My problem here is that just as getting married to me wasn't about "a piece of paper", getting divorced is about so much more, too. I don't know what the stats are of reconciliation after D, but the sheer devastation of the D itself... I shudder at the thought of it.

Many people would have me shrug it off. I can't. It's a big deal to me.

Hi RT,

quote:-----------------------------------------------------
My problem here is that just as getting married to me wasn't about "a piece of paper", getting divorced is about so much more, too. I don't know what the stats are of reconciliation after D, but the sheer devastation of the D itself... I shudder at the thought of it.

Many people would have me shrug it off. I can't. It's a big deal to me.
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You are right, it is a 'big deal'..... What can you do?

I think like Hurting, you can always state that you do not want a D, at best you can delay it, make sure you are not being exploited by terms of D... the 'reality' is that you cannot stop WS from filing for D if convinced that it needs to happen!

....in order to balance out this feeling of 'powerlessness', I think it's important for a BS to focus on what BS 'can' DO and DECIDE, given the circumstances....

...as a BS, realizing that there was nothing that I could say or do that would 'influence' or change the mind of WS.... realizing that continued contact with WS, due to selfishness, lead to more frustration and pain....

...as a BS, what I could DO and DECIDE is to go to PLAN B: accept WS's decision but not approve of it and no longer be part of WS's life.....

I think PLAN B allows WS to 'live out' their fantasy sooner and allows 'reality' to set in quicker...and therefore shorten 'process'.....if there is one to go through.....

As a BS in PLAN B at the same time I am removed from this process and therefore I minimize damage (pain, frustration, disappointment,etc) and this also forces me to focus on what I want to do with MY LIFE....

Anyway....this is new territory for me...trying to learn as I go along.... I struggle with it often.... as I see you do, too...

All I can say is...hang in there...

when you are tired.....take a rest....

when you are full of energy....be productive....

when you need someone to talk to...come here or call up a friend....

...don't ever forget that no matter what happens...you are important and of value.....

Thanks so much for your post, Lunamare, it's mint. I read it twice! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It's late though and I'm wiped out from the events of the day. More tomorrow.

New post begins here on 28 March:

I got an email from WH this morning. As you may remember, I'm in Plan B and we're meant to stay in touch only about children and finances. He indeed had stuff to say about our finances, but also this:

"No calls to [S11] over the last couple of days as I am sick. I have a serious tooth abscess, lots of pain and a swollen face. I'm having lots of trouble sleeping and all out of kilter so have slept through his bed time the last two nights. I will speak to him today. Just in case he thinks I have forgotten him . . .

Thank you.

WH

P.S. It was good to know [niece] got out of the accident with her car OK. Thanks."

OK so I'm not thinking this personal communication means anything. I think it's more of his "Looka me! Looka me!" stuff. (He hardly ever calls S11. S11 calls HIM 99.99% of the time but he seems to be outgrowing it. He hasn't bothered ringing his dad anywhere near as much and I don't remind him any more - naughty me. So this is a non issue. And I did NOT tell him about my niece's accident. D18 did. Don't know why he's saying "thanks" other than as a jibe.)

I don't want to analyze the e-mail though. I'm just wondering: what do I do when the e-mail violates the terms of the PBL? Do I just ignore it? I mean - I'm going to ignore it anyway, but should I say anything about him sticking to the subjects of children and finances only?

Just ignore it. Plan B means that you don't contact him. They always want to keep the contact up.

Thanks, Believer. Just checking.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You are doing well in Plan B. Usually folks have a hard time sticking to it.

Thanks, Believer. It's been pretty tough with the severe withdrawals, but there is just no other choice for me. Contact with WH just takes too much out of me. Contact with him had started to destroy the love I had for him. And I also think I left it too long because of the adverse effect it had on me personally. I mean... (and I don't mean any disrespect to spouses who were abused in their marriages) but I'm beginning to understand how abused spouses must feel when they hear the spouse's car coming up the driveway. After months of not knowing what to expect when I dealt with him, and coming up against the terrible abusive behavior, I started having little panic attacks at the prospect of any communication from him. Even now, when I see that he's initiated contact with me through e-mail, I get a knot in my chest, pounding heart, and opening the e-mail takes real courage.

I guess I have been well and truly traumatized. I never thought I would EVER be in this position.