Is it important to get married?

What is the gain?

Why not just live together?

I have a colleque who I thought was married because she always refered to her partner as Husband! Then when I spoke to her about my seperation, she said she found the right man for her, and she feels like they are married. (she was married once a while back) She may be holding out on me more of the details of her decision (I don't know).

Anyway, so what is the advantage of being married?

I know I got married because I wanted to show my life long commitment to my partner. My H asked me because as he said then, he could not imagine not having me by his side for the rest of his life. I know marriage is not forever. Mine did not last. It did not last for many people.

I guess I wonder how different it would be if we were not married?

Say I and my H just lived together and the problems we had were there etc. and then he left in May 2005. I think everything would have been the same. He still would have wanted to get away. I still would have wanted to be together. Was I committed to saving a marriage or a relationship? I think deep down I wanted to save the relationship not the marriage. I wanted to be with him and I wanted to save the bond we had. At some point I even thought I would be fine if we got together and did not live together(I think my H just could not take living with me, but did want to be with me ~ I never did voice this).

I also think he still would have wanted to stay friends with me, as he does now.

To him we are over and he even tells people 'I am not married anymore'.

Because we were not together very long there will probably not be a question of financial support. We have no kids, but being married or not does not really change the child support issue (as far as I understand).

So, it seems to me that if we were not married and he left, we still would have gone through the same emotional dynamics, the whole rollercoaster ride as if we were not married.

By being married, we now have to dish out some cash, so that "in the eyes of the law" and society, we are free to MARRY others. We don't even have to divorce officially to start seeing other people. We can just say we are seperated and people go, ok. (Like my H's brother who asked my H if he was "seeing someone" now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />~ this was back in Nov).

I know my H has never said 'I want a D'. He just says we did not work out and lets be friends.

I still hope to marry again in the future. Yet I really wonder about this......throwing these thoughts out there....

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I wouldn't put out for some guy who wasn't willing to legally and morally commit to me. Shoot, even a prostitute gets paid for her services!! I expect a little more for my services, [ie: a committment] and am not willing to be anyone's shack up ho'.

p.s. I think if you go into a shack up situation where you are avoiding marriage because it is easier to split up, then you don't have a real committment in the first place. A marriage is supposed to be a life long committment and if you don't view your relationship in that light, then that should tell you this is not marriage material and be your cue to move on.

Three levels of attachment... all are "normal", and all are fine ... but do not think for one minute they are the same ...

Freeloader is unwilling to put much effort into the care of his or her partner in a romantic relationship. He or she does only what comes naturally and expects only what comes naturally. It's like a person who tries to live in a house without paying rent or doing anything to improve it unless the person is in the mood to do so.


Renter is willing to provide limited care as long as it's in his or her best interest. The romantic relationship is considered tentative, so the care is viewed as short-term. It's like a person who rents a house and is willing to stay as long as the conditions seem fair, or until he or she finds something better. The person is willing to pay reasonable rent and keep the house clean but is not willing to make repairs or improvements. It's the landlord's job to keep the place attractive enough for the renter to stay and continue paying rent.

Buyer is willing to demonstrate an extraordinary sense of care by making permanent changes in his or her own behavior and lifestyle to make the romantic relationship mutually fulfilling. Solutions to problems are long-term solutions and must work well for both partners because the romantic relationship is viewed as exclusive and permanent. It's like a person who buys a house for life with a willingness to make repairs that accomodate changing needs, painting the walls, installing new carper, replacing the roof, and even doinf some remodeling so that it can be comfortable and useful.

Do you think that if/when you split up, it will hurt any less if you are not married?

Not being legally married means that you have none of the legal protections that married couples have. If one of you is hospitalized, the other one can't even come in to visit much less make the life-or-death decisions that you would want a committed spouse to make. Those will go to some relative that you may not like so much or barely even know. And that's just one example.

Why not just live together? Ask any gay couple who is fighting for the right to the protection of a legally recognized marriage. They'll spell it all out for you.

Mulan

Mel,

I was not trying to say that I would not get married because it would make the break up easier. I was actually saying that the break up would be SAME (if we have go through a non-consented D, it will cost us around 300$.) So I am saying that besides the 300$, the break up IS exactly the same.

I know about the commitment level. Is there no other way to show commitment to another person (I am curious). Is not buying a house together, having the same account, etc. a sign of commitment?

I have a friend that is not married. She has been with her guy for 8 years. They have 3 kids together. They are committed to each other. I really don't see him leaving her. I would always tell her to get married. Her reply was we just have not done it yet. They are committed to each other for life.

I guess I just wonder about this.

She has been with him for 8 years. They are working it out. Have issues but are working on them.

I got married. Was married less then 2 years. My H left. I'll be getting a D soon.

How did being married make a difference? How is not being married bad in her situation? Her relationship is striving.


Daisy

Not really. They are not even committed enough to make it legal. That is not what I would consider committed. If one of the partners wants to hit the road, they can easily do it tomorrow with ease.

Your friend doesn't have any of the legal protections that a W has. If he died tomorrow, she would get NOTHING because she is not next of kin. If he got sick she would not be allowed to make any decisions because she is not his wife. She wouldn't even be allowed in most ICU"s becasue she is nothing more than his "friend." No one else would take her seriously as a partner, because apparently he didn't even take her seriously enough to make a legal committment.

I guess I don't get your point. Why would one need to find some "other" way to commit when we already have a perfectly good system in place?

\
Being married is not a GUARANTEE against divorce. Nor is shacking up a guarantee against a break up. You are making a false dichotomy by using anecdotes. Nor did being married cause your breakup anymore than her shacking up has caused her to stay with her boyfriend.

Mulan,
I can bet you that once/if gay couples have a right to marry there will still be pleanty of gay couples that will say we are committed to each other for life and still not get married.

There are pleanty of gay couples now that live together, are committed to their partners, and have been together for years. Yes, they would like to law to recognize the fact that they are married, but yet they still have long lasting relationships and are NOT married.

I do understand the need to have a partner who can come into a hospital while he may not otherwise. And the right to execute a will etc. However, I did not marry my H so that he could execute my will. I married him to show my commitment to him. Yet if people can show that level of committment to each other and not be married I wonder how we convince them to get married. I could not convince my friend. I am pro marriage. I will not just live with some guy. I don't believe in that. That however is not a strong argument for people that are committed but don't see the need to marry.


Daisy

But how is true committment shown? It is shown by legally committing to that person in a public ceremony. That is a true expression of love.

Mel,

My point was not to shake the pot. Just wanted to know what you all thought. I wonder about people that don't get married but say we are committed to each other. I also wonder about if I got married for the right reasons.

Maybe I got married for the wrong reasons. When my H asked me if I would marry him, I was happy to know that he wanted to be with me for life. I did not think about any other advantages of being married.

I also just wondered what difference it would have made for the BREAK UP if we were not married.

I was just thinking out loud.

Daisy

While I believe in marriage...my father and my step mom have been together 21 years and are not married....

My father was married twice before her...and she never married. Both of them felt it would be a peice of paper that would ruin what they had by putting a label on what they had. Neither are spiritual or religious.

They have had their ups and downs and almost split up just like my mom and stepdad who have been married for 23 years and have had the same ups and downs.

While I do not agree and feel they should have been married long ago - at the same time, they treat eachother as a married couple - they have no more or less freedom than a married couple would. they are committed to eachother...

For me marrying was a spritiual thing. I wanted to show my commitment to my husband in front of God. And have God bind us together for life...as far off the path as I fell, I do still believe this.

There are many different levels of committment. I think you are talking about the Freeloader's version of committment - "well, I'm here, aren't I?" Their idea of being "committed" just means "I won't leave."

Someone who is truly committed wants their partner to have every possible protection, both emotional and legal/practical. The "I won't leave" committment is a very limited committment and provides no protection for their partner.

That's no committment at all, as far as I am concerned. I guess the answer to your question is "Why would you settle for someone who doesn't want to get married and therefore doesn't think you're worth a 100% committment?"
Mulan

Crikey Mel, stop beating around the bush & tell us what you really think!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

There have actually been numerous studies that have examined whether living together before marriage is a good idea.

[color:"red"] The data shows that people who have multiple cohabiting relationships before marriage are more likely to experience marital conflict, marital unhappiness and eventual divorce than people who do not cohabit before marriage.[/color]

Although some of these effects might be due to the characteristics of people who cohabit (e.g., they tend to move from one relationship to another), recent studies suggest that the cohabitation experience itself contributes to problems in marriage. [color:"red"] The reason why cohabitation may setup couples for failure in marriage is because cohabitation is just a test. Since all couples suffer from some incompatibility, when the other partner "fails" the test, the person moves on to the next partner. [/color] A succession of cohabitation failures results in an inability to maintain commitment - the most important part of a marriage relationship.

What about love?
Most young people think that love is just a strong feeling one has toward another person. However, the elated, "high" feeling we get when we "fall in love" is really infatuation This kind of "love" is something that is typically short-lived, and unless replaced by true love, results in broken relationships. Those who think the infatuation phase of a relationship will last for a lifetime are setting themselves up for disappointment and failure. Life happens, and people make mistakes that hurt others. [color:"red"] The ability to forgive and rebuild trust is required for any marriage relationship to succeed. Those who are used to moving on to the next relationship at the first sign of trouble will not make a good marriage partner, which is why living together leads to bad habits.[/color]

I admit, I lived with my H for 1-1/2 years before marriage (and dated 2 years before that). Both of us didn't want to commit - it was as simple as that. We loved each other, but wanted to "make sure" we really wanted that lifelong commitment before we jumped into it. I had to take baby steps by moving in...sharing money...etc. I think it comes from both of us having parents who were married and divorced more then once. My mom had 2 marriages & is now living with man #3 (who I begged her not to marry since he was the same type of guy). My H's mom dragged him from place to place and man to man. So, both of us knew that commitment wouldn't be easy. We also knew that children of divorced parents are MORE likely to get divorced which was scary too. I didn't want to repeat my mom's mistakes. I graduated college first, worked, then got married.

And now we find ourselves here. Maybe our character of not being able to fully commit means even after the M, he didn't commit fully (due to his personality). I don't know.

Finally, from a bibical viewpoint, it's a whole different story. Living together before marriage is sin, PERIOD!! Looking back, I think it was a huge mistake to live together before marriage. I wasn't following God's command for my life. I wish now that I was involved in church during college & found a good Christian man & maybe I wouldn't be on this board.

I have a friend who met her H at church, dated 1-1/2 years before marriage, waited to be married to live together & have SF. They have a wonderful, respectful, loving relationship. Problems like the ones here are something far, far from their minds. She picked a man of character & her marriage shows it. I can look at that now & know what I did wrong.

I thought it didn't matter what my H believed as long as we loved each other. But, it not only matters, but it will be the defining theme of our marriage. Without being saved, he was completely self-absorbed, with lusty & wondering eyes, a liar and completely ignorant of God watching his every move. NOW, he is another man altogether & wishes he would have been saved before marriage. He has told me that we would have waited until marriage for SF & never lived together. Obviously, we would have gotten married much, much sooner too, trusting that God would care for our marriage & help us through tough times.

My grandparents were married for 63 years - good times & bad. They waited until marriage for SF & living together. They stuck it out no matter what. A commitment is after all that - right? So, even though I felt my grandmother wasn't always treated fairly by my selfish grandfather, she kept doing her part always. Even one year, my grandfather stopped talking to my grandmother, but she still cooked & cleaned for him, washed his clothes & did whatever she could to make him happy. IN the end, she got cancer & died & she left him alone for 5 long & hard years. I've NEVER seen someone who held anyone on a pedestal like he did after that. He knew what he lost & he regretted he didn't have the time back to make up for it. I'm just so happy that she had the time to say goodbye & he told her how much he loved her. My grandmother said the one good thing about getting cancer is that everyONE told her how much they loved her. She finally got the appreciation she needed. My point is that we don't all get the fair & wonderful deal (I know I haven't), but I think about how much harder it must have been to be married to a man like him, but keep her faith & her commitment no matter what.

I think it was the expectation of marriage in their time & their faith. Today, that is eroding from our culture & I think questions about why people should get married or why not live together show that young people today don't understand the importance of marriage due to their lack of faith & lack of commitment. If you cannot notice that young people don't honor many of their commitments these days - they are fickle - so how can they take something as important as marriage seriously. I think society has told them it's okay to go with whatever your emotions say & that commitment doesn't matter.

Okay, I'm rambing, so I'll stop.

One more great point:

There are a number of factors that predict success or failure in marriage. When considering a potential marriage partner, these factors greatly impact the success rate for marriage. Indeed, some of these factors predict a more than twice the likelihood of divorce.

Factors that contribute to succees or failure of marriage:
Age, Values, backgrounds, education, living together before marriage & family of origin

Higher likelihood of FAILURE in marriage:
less than 20 years old when you get married
Different backgrounds
high school educated
living together with other people twice or more
Family of origin divorced

Higher likelihood of SUCCESS in marriage:
greater than 20 years old when you get married
Similar backgrounds
College educated
Living together with other people none or once
Family of origin still Intact

I was with my boyfriend for 14+ years. We lived together for just over 5 years. The break up has been extremely difficult for me (he is the one who left me for OW). I can't see the break up being any different emotionally had we been married. Financially perhaps, since we shared property and some finances. Maybe it would have been harder for him to leave... maybe not. It's been over 4 months and I'm still miserable.

WhiteDaisy -

I married for religious reasons. But you know what? I sometimes wonder why. Being married didn't help me as far as the relationship lasting. It didn't help me in the financial settlement.

When there is a disagreement, it is very, very expensive to get divorced. I have spent over $3600. on mediation, financial agreements, and filing for the divorce. Each time we go to court, it costs me another $300. WH plans to drag it out. I can see this costing another $3600.

Had we not married, I would have protected myself more by holding money and assets in my name. I thought the right thing was putting it in both names. I didn't protect myself, and relied on the marriage and state to protect me.

Right now, I can't imagine marrying again.

Believer,

I didn't say that religious beliefs save anyone from grief (although I know some that have been saved from it), however, it's looking at the type of person who "wants" to live together before marriage or instead of marriage. I've been there & I know it is due to a lack of comittment (even when those doing it now may not admit it). It makes things easier & less complicated IF it doesn't work out. But, with this kind of thinking, isn't it just setting yourself up for failure. I think so.

Obviously, some people live together & make it. Some people never live together & don't make it. But, the percentage of people who live together first ending up divorced is higher. There is something to be said for it.

It's something to consider.

I married my husband because he was a strong Christian, active in our church, and a good man. It didn't guarantee anything. I might as well have picked out a bum that didn't want to commit. At least I would have known to protect myself.