SD's,
First off, thank you again for your wonderful words of support and your infinite wisdom. I am taking your advice which I'm sure I'll have to read again and again.

I understand why you're "weaning" yourself from these boards. I've noticed a lot of people who have been around a while are doing this. Perhaps new year's resolutions?! I wish you all the best in your marriage. You sound like a wonderful man, husband, father. Enjoy life!
S.

TT,
This is exactly how I felt. Thanks for your support.
S.

Mrs. S,
I agree with you and believe me I do have concerns. I am planning on calling the Harleys. Thanks again.
S.

Here is my update from the weekend:

POSITIVE: Thursday WH asked me to look up some trips to a NASCAR race that the 3 of us can fly to. DS is a NASCAR fan and WH said he has a lot of time to make up for. He has also stated that the two of us would go away alone together.

POSITIVE: He mentioned selling an antique vehicle he has. This is a good sign as well. The car was his dad's and he has been holding onto it because of the strong emotional attachment he has to it (his mom and dad died when he was 22). However, it takes up too much space in our garage, does not run, and we both know he will never have the time to restore it. He says he wants to buy a 4 wheeler instead for him and DS to use. To me, this symbolizes him letting go of the past and starting new.

NEGATIVE: Sat. he came to spend the day. I calmly told him about the dinner incident and my feelings about it. "I feel it was disrespectful to me to not tell friend that you had plans for dinner. She would have understood and then would not have forced you to eat. You could have called me to let me know you were running late and ate already."

He really didn't "get it". He feels he did his best to tell her he didn't want the burger. He didn't realize he was late. He doesn't see this as being disrespectful.

I called this "friend" and told her what happened. I wanted her to know that I had dinner waiting and it was important to me. I wanted her to know for the future, if he says no, don't force it because you might not know the whole story behind it. Just accept a no and let it be.

She was not apologetic to me but rather defensive. She kept saying things like:

"I'm not making excuses for him but maybe he didn't want to say anything because my son was there and he doesn't talk about you two in front of him."

Oh yeah - My exwife is making me dinner so I can't eat. That is too provacative to discuss in front of a 22 year old! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
"Well the burger wasn't that big so he still should have been hungry."

I didn't get the support I wanted, such as I didn't know - I never would have forced dinner on him had I known. And yes, I feel she is making excuses for him.

Saturday update:

We went to DS's BB game and had a good time. WH discussed selling our vehicles and the new ones we would get - ones that would fit us as a family.

We took DS and his friend to see the Monster Trucks show. I would not have gone in the past - would have let the boys have their testosterone and night on the town. However, I want to spend time with him and it was one of his needs, spending recreational time together. So I am willing to make changes. We actually had a good time.

WH seemed tired and withdrawn. It makes me sad to see him hurting this way. I know he has a lot on his mind. He hasn't told me when he is moving home yet. I will ask him but I don't want to know about the dirty details of his breakup. Right now I feel it is his job to do, I am not going to interfere with it. I don't want her a part of our lives so let me know when it's been done so we can move on.

I don't know what's inside his head but I think he is depressed. He realizes he was wrong and caused a lot of pain for DS and I. I can only assume he is worried about breaking up with OW and the fallout there. I think once he does this and moves home he will start to feel better - I hope? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I will call Harleys but I want him to move home first. I don't want to waste the call while he is still living there.

Shattered, is this REALLY the hill you want to die on? I mean, c'mon, your H is having an affair and your marriage is on the rocks and you are upset with him for missing dinner? I would implore you to address this issue MUCH LATER at a less critical time. Pushing this issue is the kind of thing that could easily push him back the other way.

You know I love you dearly,<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> but I honestly think you have bigger fish to fry and I also think it is a huge lovebuster to call his friends and admonish them to help you keep hubby in line. That is not your friends responsibility, it is no one's responsibility. He is a big boy and can eat whenevger and whatever he chooses. You are not his momma. He is the ONLY one responsible for his choices and I think it was very disrespectful to call this woman. Disrespectful to her and especially to him.

But please, don't die on this hill, shattered. You have huge issues here that you are facing right now and don't need this diversion. Don't shoot yourself in the foot!

I really like that you agreed to go to a NASCAR race with him. EVen though it is the most stupid sport known to mankind <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> you would get so much enjoyment going on a nice trip together. This should be a huge lovebank deposit.

Ok, what is the plan for his moving back? I am getting concerned that you aren't having discussions about actual plans.

I think you should call the Harley's NOW and get their guidance in the most effective way to bring him home.

I also think you should broach this subject of breaking up with the OW so you can volunteer to be his support. For example, you might tell him that you understand it will be hard to break up with OW and you want him to know that you will be there as his support. Tell him you understand all about the withdrawal a WS goes through and maybe even print up Suzets thread about withdrawal. Ask him if he has told OW yet and what you can do to help him through this difficult time. Y'all need to be talking about this, S.

Suzet on withdrawal: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2686313

Shattered05... this is a post I made a couple of years ago, just in to the "recovery process. This may give you some help in what to expect in the days to come. Have you had the chance to have that "sit down" talk with your H and get a feel for his current state of mind, and his intent regarding re-entry to the marriage he's damaged in so many ways? You feel like giving an update? Inquiring minds, you know!

Here are some things which happened to me that appear to be typical about the WS during the Withdrawal period, and lingering into "recovery".

* Peculiar and wavering state of mind. Attribute this to their own desire to continue the A, in spite of knowing its wrong, and, also the realization that huge amounts of damage have been done and they have NO IDEA how to deal with it.

* Deep, DEEP down inside their hearts, they are experiencing two diametricly (SP?) opposed feelings of grief. One for the marriage they damaged, the other for the OP. The WS's don't know how to process both feelings at the same time.

* Emotional detachment. Knowing the pain they have caused, they are much more inclined to hide from the pain, rather than face it straight up. Plus many of their feelings are still directed towards the OP.

* Argumentative and combative. WS's can be an endless fountain of LB's and disrespectful remarks designed solely to make the BS angry and respond with a vengence. This allows them to stay emotionally detached, and shift the BLAME for the affair having taken place to the BS.

* Sullen, quiet, withdrawn. All this a result of a combination of the above items. Look how much of an emotional drain it is to be the BS. The WS has an equal amount of emotional drama to deal with, it's just way different than what we BS's are going through.

* Complaints of being smothered. Of course. BS's are in Plan A, doing all the right things, and at the same time seeking answers, remorse, groveling (LOL), revenge, love, EN's, and some sense of the WS explaining the affair and returning to the marriage. And this is what the BS's expect in the first HOUR after DDay! Way too many emotions are in play, and both parties have needs that cannot be properly met by the other for several weeks, until the fervor of emotions wains, and people are thinking with clearer minds. All of these things take time, and effort. Words to a foggy WS are like throwing cotton balls at a crocodile.

* WS's are all about them. It's me, me, me for the longest time. It's still all about the selfish mode they assumed to allow the A to happen and continue. Plan A, sort of keeps that in place. That's where care and caution need to come into play, so that as the fog lifts for a moment, a BS may have to employ "tough love", without LB's and DJ's. Timing and delivery are everything during this stage.

* Continued contact. Most of the posts I've seen here refer to more than one broken promise of NC before it truly takes place. Setbacks are common. My WW had 4 breeches before I believed this last "promise" might be the real deal. You all know how your situation is unique and problematic in this regard!

* Lack of interest in learning how to recover. They are in such a state of denial, among other things, that they "don't need to recover". I finally "coerced" WW to read SAA aloud with me, but it was just a courtesy to me that she did it. It meant nothing to her, because at the time, she was still living the fantasy.

All these things seem to be pretty typical. I'm sure other posters can add more. Time, time, time, is the final answer, but the time spent needs to be filled with a carefully executed Plan A, (lifetime version). Mix in some boundry setting, so the WS has some consequences for errors in His/Her ways, and hang on for the ride. Make most of the times that you have together pleasant for both of you, and choose NOT to talk about the A, recovery, OP. Those talks should be semi-occasional, and not drawn out to become confrontational. If they get confrontational, call a time out, and set a time to talk later, when tempers are in check.

I don't know if any of these things might explain some of what you are going through, but I bet it might. You need to grow an emotional "coat of armor" for this withdrawal. Remember, you were at one time the love of his/her life. The swampy FOG creature speaking to you now is NOT that person. Don't let their words penetrate your armor. Disattach from their hurtful words. They mean NOTHING. It's not your spouse speaking. Continue Plan A with a vengence, as it's the fan that will slowly blow the fog away.

I hope this may help you on the new rollercoaster ride, called Recovery.

Please help because I'm ready to hand WH a Plan B letter. Let me know if I should or if I should stay the course. There was the incident above with the no show dinner. Yes, isolated maybe not a big deal and I can let it go. Here's more of what happened this week:

We spent Sat together - I think I already posted that? Sunday eve into Mon. I was sick with the stomach virus my son had last week. WH called sounded concerned, I hope you feel better, yadda yadda. Came to pick DS up for sport Monday and didn't even come upstairs to say hello, how are you, can I get you anything. We had just talked on the phone so he knew I wasn't sleeping. BTW, on his way over, his truck went off the road because of bad weather and needed to be towed out. He said he saw his life flash before his eyes and he thought he was going to die. When they got back from sport, he gave me the bill and wants me to try and get it paid on MY AAA account. That would leave me with 1 call left until late Nov. I signed up for AAA because WH was not around and I needed to feel safe.

He told me work was forcing him to take 7 hours of comp time within 2 weeks. He was mad because he didn't want to use it now. My BDay is this weekend and I told him to take Friday off and spend it with me. That was the end of that discussion.

Last night I asked him if he had a plan for moving home. He said yes. "What is it?" He said he planned on moving home "within a month" because he is "very busy" with work, etc. [censored] [censored] [censored]

Tonight he was just here. I asked him if he wanted to take me out Friday for my BDay. He said "I can't." I said "Why not?" and he said "I can't afford it." Then he asked me if I typed some letters for him he asked me to. NO!
Let me just say he was lucky he left with his life. I didn't respond but this does not work for me. First off let me just say that money is not an issue. He is so tight he squeaks. He has money to take me out. He11, he takes her out, buys her kids Christmas presents, bought her a ring for her birthday, yadda, yadda, yadda. Right now I can't tolerate this blatant disrespect for me.

Please respond because I'm not feelin' the love for him anymore. I don't "need" this man that badly. I could trade him in for someone that would treat me like a queen in a heartbeat.

Bottom line: I am SOOOOOO HURT by his meanness to me.

Did you lovebust him? Did you tell him what I said about understanding the withdrawal process? Did you discuss what he has told the OW?

I think it is VERY UNREALISTIC of you to expect him to meet your needs right now. He has nothing to give until he gets through withdrawal. You are setting him up to fail here by demanding that he act like a soap opera guy. That is not going to happen, Shattered. Once he gets through withdrawal, he will draw TO YOU, but I think you are expecting way too much too soon.

That being said, if you will press on and have a serious discussion with him about moving home, offering your help, we can see how he reacts. But you must make a serious overture here and try to be his ally. If he won't allow you to be his ally, then that will tell us that he is only blowing smoke and trying to buy some time on the fence. THEN, I think it would be a good idea to go to Plan B. But you must extend the hand of HELP before you do that.

Shattered05.... sorry things have gone this way. It sounds like the fog was clearing a bit a week ago, but it's returned and enshrouded his brain again.

I never got to Plan B, but if I recall, you have already prepared your letter and had it reviewed and perfected here. Only you can decide if the time is right. From what you describe, it's near.

You will need to really put yourself in a proper state of mind to do Plan B. It takes focus and concentration, not to mention a huge helping of resolve. Not that I doubt for a moment you have all the "tools" to do a great Plan B.

You may want to put on a noticibly enhanced Plan A for a week or two, since the past two weeks have been so hectic, and not a lot of chances to make the LB$ deposits. Plan B needs to make him feel Withdrawal from the EN's YOU have been filling for him whilst he sits on the proverbial fence.

Are you ready for Plan B? Do you have your financial affairs in order? Do you have a reliable intermediary? Do you think THIS is the time?

Stay strong...
SD

Not at all. I didn't say anything at all.

No
No


Okay Mel, thanks. I feel like I am in way over my head now and need to be led along the path. One thing I have to say is that in our marriage he was the dominant character and I let my needs take a back seat time and again. It frightens me a little to start this relationship up again with the same old patterns of behavior. So that is where I am reacting from. I guess I foolishly thought that he was different, and wouldn't go through withdrawal. I thought he was over OW and this wouldn't be so hard. I will try and talk to him about withdrawal. He is not giving me much "face time" so I'll do my best.

I can do it when you respond and tell me it's normal and I'm expecting too much (even though every fiber of my being is screaming ENOUGH ALREADY). So Melody, once again, Thank you, thank you, thank you.

P.S. I just emailed Steve for an appointment.

Shattered Dreams,

Thank you so much for taking the time to post. At least I think a thank you is in order. After reading through your withdrawal news I don't know if I'm looking forward to this year either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Unfortunately for me, it is painfully apparent that it is just what I need to read right now.

But Melody - how does she get him to unload the OW? This is starting to remind me of my WH. He was always TALKING about it, but never DID anything.

Should he give Shattered a No Contact letter? If he says it is over?

Shattered - hey there. Hang in there girl. I know this has got to be frustrating to you - wanting do do the right thing & help your WH, but not quite knowing how to get there....

Kim

Believer, that is what I am afraid of and that may be the case here. However, before she takes that step, I want to see if her offer of help and understanding will do the trick. I want to see if he will allow her to lead him out of this morass. If not, then she needs to go right into Plan B.

Shattered05... you are welcome.... at least I think you are welcome! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Something we all need to hear is that this process is a marathon, not a sprint. Success should be measured in months, not days or weeks.

This is one of the most frustrating things a person can go through. It's ok to have a let-down. It's normal. Sometimes you just need to cubby-hole the whole damn mess, and give it NO thought at all for 48 hours and rest and regroup. It's too intense to just be "on" about, all the time.

You are human. You are struggling. So what? It's normal, it's to be expected, and you will get through it!

Keep the faith and don't give up... ok?

SD

Kim, a no contact letter is futile right now because he is living with her.

Thanks Kim. I'm trying and I appreciate your support.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Thank you SD's. You have an optimistic spirit that always seems to lighten and lift mine. I appreciate that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
S.

Oh crap, crap, double crap. Mel & Believer, say it ain't so!!