Hi SH 05,

...been reading you...but don't think I ever posted to you....

I am sorry about your WS's behaviour.... you deserve sooooo much better....

...sounds like you have a good attitude..... and your letter to 'Romeo'? Took the words right out of my mouth!

...I don't know if the 'words' will get 'through' to your WS.... but your actions will.....

I am just here to support you....don't really have advice to give to you...other than agreeing with some that you have been getting....

...I am currently in PLAN B (communicate by phone messages only about boys and finances) and it frustrates my WS to no end my not wanting to 'meet' or talk 'directly' with him... (uses needing to talk about our 'boys' as the excuse)... but it is a consenquence I chose as long as OW is in his life!

...I have referred to A as one of the most 'destructve' communication block he could have put between us..... up to him to remove it first, before he even gets to 'talk' to me directly!

...it looks like 'fantasyland' isn't working for your WS....but you may be just 'enough' in his life to make him want to 'run' it as long as possible.... as long as he has the reassurance that you will be there for him... wonder if it would help to 'shorten' the run were you to place some 'doubts'....

Since you watch Dr. Phil...did you get a chance to see the one about Mr. Mooch? Learned a few things....particularly Dr. Phil's explanation of Sarah's 'payoff'....because I couldn't for the life of me figure out why she would 'tolerate' his behaviour...

Anyway... sorry for the long post...

I think you are doing great...keep up the good work!

Lunamare,

Thank you so much for your input. You see? You make perfect sense to me. Everybody does. Except WH. You have been in Plan B for a long time. WOW!

I will try and find that Dr. Phil show on his website. I watched him the other night and I love him but I don't watch the show regularly.

Thanks again for your input. Feel free anytime to drop in and comment.
S.

Shattered,

Your questions are the same ones I was asking myself as I woke up this morning. I like to imagine that me WH wants to come home and imagine what my plan would be.

My question seems to be : Where should a WS live during withdrawal?

In plan A, you try to do whatever you can to keep them under the same roof. In plan B, you don't take them back until they are willing to withdraw. But like you, I can't imagine my WH "white knuckling" NC if he is holed up in his rat nest apartment by himself.

So you plan A to start, then plan B and if that works, you don't go back to plan A again, what is that plan called? I know the dangers of letting them back before withdrawal is complete, but it seems very unlikely that a WS would be able to not take the easy way out and break NC if the BS is waiting for them to complete the withdrawal process.

But, on the other hand, as a FWW, I did finish my withdrawal before I asked FBH for reconciliation. I was NC for a month before I talked to BH about reconciliation.

I don't know, this is all very interesting if I can stay back from it and observe. But being in the middle of it really sucks!

{{{{{Jean}}}}}

Thank you for your thoughts. I think I have spent more time thinking about "The Affair" than the great philosphers did on much more important subjects.

You have explained something to me that I didn't know.
I'm glad to know that you were able to withdraw on your own. That's encouraging to me.

Thanks for your dropping in Jean. I hope your sitch works out for you as well.
S.

Ahhhh, if I told you something you didn't know - it is probably wrong!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Don't listen to me, I stink at this stuff.

But, the question of in house withdrawal vs out of house is interesting to me. Who is different? I guess after doing a good A and B, the WS should have the bubble burst and not carry the fantasy around anymore. So they should be able to withdraw on there own.

When the affair is "interrupted" by being busted, they still carry the fantasy with them. So in house withdrawal is better.

I think in both of our situations, the WS need to not have any idealized notions of the mistress and that only comes after the A has run its course.

But like I said, I am not and expert by any means, just muddling along like the rest of us.

I was thinking about something the other night. When WXH moved out, he went to see an attorney the next week. I begged him to wait, to just get a separation and see, etc. Nope. A month later he filed charges. As my sister said "He is locked and loaded on this divorce." This seems unusual to me. Most WS don't file right away. Any ideas as to what is going on when a WS does this? This doesn't seem textbook to me.

Also, the cell phone bills show about 3 calls around Christmas 04 and then burning up the phone lines in Feb 05----->. I couldn't find January's bill. He left in May.

Would someone really divorce his wife of 16 years and risk everything financially and otherwise for a 5-6 month affair? I wonder if I am missing something. A second cell phone maybe. I wonder how long this has really been going on. He worked every weekend summer '04 and then in the fall some things he said in retrospect lead me to believe their friendship was really developing then. He started having some real independent behaviors and thinking. Then again, the way Frank Pittman describes "Romantic Love Affairs" in his book Private Lies would explain this very well.

WXH told me ho was divorced for 15 years. I believed him! (I'm a slow learner). I did a background check on her and her spouse was living with her 5 years ago. He then moved out of state. Do you think it would do me any good to contact him? Tell him what's going on and ask him how long they have been divorced, etc.?

No Jean, I think you are right on target! And you do make sense! Thanks again.

I'm going to go get a haircut now. I'll check back later.
S.

Shattered,

My H and I were separated for over two years. He never A'd or B'd, I just kinda cake ate for two years. BH and I were chummy and coparented great, BH and OM got along very well, kids were happy and saw both their parents all the time.

It was when BH started dating that the trouble started. His GF put an end to my cake eating to a degree, she sorta planB'd me. She really wasn't to hip on being a part of my little polyamory thing I had going. I wasn't romantically involved with BH, but we were together more during the separation than we were during the marraige.

Since you are divorced, I would maybe let you WH know that his boots can be filled pretty quickly. As a FWW, that is what freaked me out, the reality that another woman was around my kids and that I didn't have BH at my beck and call anymore.

But my A when on long after GF's arrival. My A really had to run its course, but my BH's involvement in my life probably extended the A quite a bit. My OM never had to meet ALL of my needs.

Jean, that possible scenario can be a very powerful defogger I would think. I'm a BH and I think about it all the time. I can only imagine how my FWW would react knowing that my kids would be living with a wonderful new stepmom. My WW loves her kids immensely and this idea would surely unsettle her.

During Plan A the WS can cake eat all they want, but Plan B cuts off the supply and forces the OM to meet all of WS needs. This is very difficult with kids and hopefully initiates LB'ing between OM and WS.

Shattered, the thought of OM around my kids makes my blood boil. How do you think your WH would react to OM in your kids lives? I don't think he would be too happy.

I once broke up with a girlfriend to pursue a more "free" life. She was very clingly and jealous, but when I found out she was flirting with other guys I became extremely jealous myself. I have a feeling your WH is the same way.

Great insight Jean!

Thanks Jean and Hope,

I think you are both on target. I just wish I could rent someone to get my point across. I don't want to start another relationship while I am still emotionally entangled in this one. I know WH would freak out if some guy moved in here with me and DS. This is our house that we built together. Well, hired someone to build. The house is paid for and 100% mine per the divorce. WXH still has so much stuff here, it is as if he hasn't moved out. I know in his mind the house is still as much his as it is mine. In fact, at one of the attorney meetings he even told me "you can't sell it". Really now WH? Oh, OK, you just keep on screwing your GF and I'll keep doing whatever you tell me to. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Can you just imagine if I was living with another man? Some guy's nice car in the driveway. Sleeping in his old bed. Cutting his grass. Making all the home improvements WH never got around to. Playing catch with DS. He would lose it!

But like I said, where could I borrow such a fella?

Boy Jean, your sitch is a tough one. I think you could take the prize here for cake eating! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I'm not at all surprised WH GF shut ya right down! Imagine what she thought?! I hope you two find your way back to one another.

Hey I'm a do-it-yourself guy, cut grass and love baseball!
I'm proficient in MB principles, minimize my LB'ers, and my prime objective is to meet my SO top EN's (whatever they are).

And I'm 11 years younger than your WH so that would really piss him off <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

lol!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


You might be on to something...a new career....MB rent a spouse. To model behaviors for FWS's...or the 180 affect!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I'm lovin' the idea!! Kind of like the MB's detective agency thread they had going. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well Don Juan left another message while I was out and then called again. The second time I answered the phone. He said "Why didn't you call me back yesterday?" I said "We were busy." He said "You could at least have called me back."

I asked him where he was V Day Eve. He said "I know I missed a call and I know you called [person he lives with]." Once again I asked "Where were you?" He said "Out, by myself, I was alone."

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> snort <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> [Kneeslap] That's a good one WH! Tell me more.

So, let's recap. Valentine's Day Evening he was out, nowhere, with no one. Missed a call and didn't return it. But I should have called him right away when he called yesterday.

I asked if he was in contact with ho and he said no. He said "You said no contact, right?" Has she tried to contact you? NOPE! "I want to work things out with you."

I pointed out the following:
1. You never want to be alone with me.
2. You had/have plans and do not want to spend with me: my b'day, your b'day, and V Day.

I asked what kind of conclusions did he think I would arrive at?

I asked what his plan was if she tried to contact him. His response: <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Then he gave his stones a little jiggle and said:
Can I come over Sunday and Monday? I want to watch the race with DS. [Daytona 500]

Soooo..... he has plans for Friday and Saturday, which by the way is his B'day, and then he wants to come spend Sunday and Monday here. In my house. So he can see his son.

I told him I'd have to think about it and I would get back to him.

I am terrible in confrontations. When I answered the phone my whole body was gearing up for a physical attack. I was calm and he was a bit angry and defensive about the questions. He says he's waiting to go to counseling to make sure he's doing the right thing in coming back here. He wants to be sure he doesn't come back and it is a huge mess. When I asked him what his plan was for handling OW, he very curtly told me I don't know, that's why I'm going to counseling. I don't know who the counselor is and if they are pro marriage or not. For all I know the ho (who calls herself a counselor) set him up with someone who is not promarriage.

Obviously Don Juan is trying to juggle us both until the counselor tells him which one of us to dump. Gee, I never knew I was married to such a stud. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Well DS and I are going for a walk. I'll be back later.
S.

P.S. You rock Hope!

Shattered -

My WH at one point in his NC attempt with OW, said he had to have contact with her because she showed up at his front door with no clothes on.

Of course, I understood THAT one completely.

Did he say that today?!? That doesn't sound very NC to me.

What would happen if you put a "For Sale" sign in the yard? You wouldn't be bound to sell the house, just let WH know are looking at all your options.

And yes, it sounds like we need a MB detective service swap meet, and a "stud exchange" swap service. Let some manly man come over to clean your gutters as you bring him cool drinks, let WH you are doing just fine.

Yes he did. Of course he is in contact, he is just very angry that I would question him on this. I think he figures he'll get his last licks in before counseling.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />Great minds think alike!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I'd like a peek at them now. Do you think she's still greeting him naked at the door? I don't think so. This is what we have to compete with. Women that have no self respect and will do anything sexual to get the attention of men. Hey -you - tarzan! Look at my boobies! Puuuhlease. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />