well, I got his AM. Left a message....

I'll let you know how it went if he calls back.

Kim

I am going to do my workout, but I will wait until you finish calling him.

Mel -

Did you see my message above? He might have left his house for a while, said he was taking his kid out later to see a movie.

Thanks!!!!

Kim

ok, be back shortly. You will do just fine, you are much stronger than you give yourself credit for.

p.s. if he is calling on behalf of WS to get you to stop contacting OWH, tell him BOLDLY that you will pass on any information you have to WH and OW's victim. This is a PROMISE. And that you fully intend to stay in contact with OWH as long as WH stays in contact with OW, or perhaps forever, you haven't decided. Don't you EVEN FLINCH.

Therefore, if the OWH knowing about the affair is a problem, then WH needs to stop seeing her. That will resolve the problem. If there is nothing to know about, then the OWH won't have reason to be upset.

If this is the issue, I guarantee you that WH is hoping to, once again, use your inappropriate guilt about this as a weapon against you. Unfortunately, this wicked little game will not work for him anymore. GAME OVER.

ok, I am really leaving now to do my workout!

Kim...

Just thought that I'd chime in here, because I know that you are in GA, and I know a bit about how the police there would handle the situation if you called 911...They will treat it as a "domestic", because you are still married(right?)...they will tell you that he has a "right" to be there, and unless you have proof of physical abuse there is nothing they can do. GAG!!! I say change the locks, however, if you guys are still married, (sorry, I don't know your whole story), then even changing them, legally, can't keep him out...the good thing though is that you can most probably count on your FOGGY WS not knowing this...

I've gotten a first hand look at just how the police in GA do this stuff...My father is Bipolar, and dangerous when in a manic phase...my poor mom would have to have been lying on the floor, bloody and about to take her last breath before even the tiniest thing would be done...

Stay strong, you are doing great it seems...hope your son feels better today...

Best,

Mrs. W

Kim, on second thought I wonder if it wouldn't be better to say something like this to the friend, no matter what subject he brings up:

"Joe, I am sorry you got dragged into this, but WH knows he is not to contact me except in case of an emergency. On other matters, such as ds and finances, he is to contact Charlie.

But the matter of OWH [or re-fi or whatever the issue is] is not an emergency and I won't discuss it. WH knows exactly what he has to do in order to come back and I will not discuss anything outside of that."

What do ya think? This way it would reinforce your stance with your WH and let him know that he cannot bully you or get around the PBL.

I see this as possibly his way of trying to get you back under his control. He knows how successful he was in manipulating you in the past over telling OWH so he sees this as a fresh opportunity, perhaps. And as an opportunity to get you to stop interfering with his affair.

Mel - just got off the call. Didn't read your last e-mail til now. We'll call this friend Bob. Bob said he was calling to just "touch base" with me and see how I was doing. Said he believes WH is getting to a good low point. Bob is already knows about the Love Bank & is reading His Needs Her Needs. Has already been talking to WH about the concepts and thinks that WH is understanding them.

Bob senses that WH is getting to the POINT where he wants to start fresh.

Bob has talked to WH about the letter I wrote WH and the NC letter. Bob said that a NC letter needs to be done. But WH is worried that it might cause OW to get hurt. Said it is "antagonistic" for what it could mean for her?

Bob said that(and here we go!) that my communication with OW"s husband bothered him and if you look at in the concept of the Love Bank that it was withdrawing credits.

I said, but Bob, wouldn't OWH be overjoyed to receive such a note from WH???? Bob said I was exactly right.

BUT, in WH's mind it was still withdrawing credits.

I told Bob that the A was what was keeping us apart, not my actions. I told Bob that WH needed to completely sever any relationship with OW for me to even speak to or see him. Bob understood how I needed to break off communication with WH to protect my Love Bank.

Bob asked me where I was in this? I told him that my position has not changed and my I still loved WH dearly. That I wanted the marriage BUT I don't want the Marriage that we had before. I want something better.

Bob said that WH is even thinking about moving!! to get a fresh start.

So, that conversation wasn't at all accusatory. Bob is going to be temporary intermediary since I have not heard back from BIL. I told Bob how I did NOT want a marriage counselor, just someone to help with scheduling b/c it was very important to me for WH & DS to see each other. I told him how Charlie kind of disappeared on me so there had been a break down in communication. I also told Bob that I have not been listening to WH's messages so I can continue protection my Love Bank!!

All in all that was a positive call. I will e-mail him and let him know how firm I am on NC, etc. He was trying to get me to see how WH felt about communication between OWH & myself. Bob said for me to just think about the goal - I really don't want either one of them in our lives. If we can get rid of them both I'd be happy. LEAVE THIS MESS BEHIND US!

Mrs. Wondering - So 911 wouldn't be much help, huh? We are still M. I don't feel so threatened now after talking to Bob. My imagination was running a bit wild!!

Whew!

Thanks,

Kim

In other words, your WH has manipulated him into calling you to persuade you to stop interfering in his affair. This is all bullsh**.

Of course, your WH doesn't like to be exposed to the OWH, he isn't supposed to. You aren't trying to fill his lovebank. Tell Bob that your "goal" is save your marriage, not appease your H and help him hide his affair. Bob doesn't quite understand the MB program.

Tell him all this and inform him that Dr. Harley, the founder of MB very much advocates exposure and you fully intend to keep OWH as informed as possible. Especially so he can protect himself from WH and the OW. That is your moral obligation and your obligation to your marriage.

Actually, you DO want the OWH in your life if it is in your best interest. He is not the problem here. The OW is.

Do you really think it is wise to trust someone who is actively acting as an advocate for your H in helping him hide his affair?

You aren't contacting OWH to chat about the weather! Your WH has complete control over whether you ever contact OWH again-all he needs to do is write a NC letter to OW and stop seeing her, and poof! No more contact between you and OWH. You took steps to protect your LB by going to Plan B, right? So he can take steps to protect his LB if that's what he really wants to do.

In other words, he is not anywhere near ready to come back.

Kim, please tell me you don't trust this man? I don't believe he is sincere. He is trying to con you into thinking that WH is ready to come back - near that point - but your "lovebusting" [emailing the OWH] is preventing him and he may just "move for a fresh start." huh? And he doesn't want to write the letter because it is "antagonistic."

Your H isn't anywhere near ready. And frankly, I am puzzled why this "friend" knows about MB. WHY? This just doesn't add up. Could he be reading here?

AMEN!

I'm reading ya - gotta take care of DS here for a bit....Will hop back on and respond later....

K

Yep - your husband has found someone who speaks the code but lacks the understanding of substance.

I like the point Elspeth made, your H has complete control over whether or not you contact the OWH. If he would quit screwing around with the man's wife, you would stop calling him. Tell Bob, therefore it is ALL IN WH'S HANDS.

Further, it is not a MB principle to enable an affair, but to expose and kill it. Keeping WH's secret for him, frm OWH, would be enabling. That is not something MB recommends.

First off, I agree - any communication between WH & OW should be shared with OWH. If WH wants this to end, start fresh and sincerely leave this all behind us I will be willing to accept the following:

1 - A No Contact Letter that I approve
2 - Complete transperancy
3 - Access to cell phone records
4 - A commitment to spend the 15 hours together per week to work on the M
and I will add to this list.

I will compose an e-mail to send to Bob summarizing some of the points made above.

Now, if WH is true to NC. Then there will be no reason for him to worry about me contacting OWH. If there is reason for me to suspect or want answers then I can contact him if I darn choose.

I want nothing less than complete openess and honesty. I will not be willing to take the risk of having him back in my life with even an inkling of a feeling that he is going to lie to me about OW.

Bob's Sunday School Group is reading His Needs, Her Needs together. They will be doing the last chapter next week.

Bob does not know everything about MB - so I do need your help in sorting through his comments and figuring out what is manipulation and what is not.

You all make some excellent points and I need to keep on my toes and my eyes wide open.

WH has to be willing to write that letter without reservations. Period.

I'm not opening my door so quickly here, but I am just glad that Bob was not combative or hurtful.

AND I don't want to get into another sitch where a "friend" is trying to counsel us.

Thanks again ----- Might share my potential e-mail to Bob later tonight or tomorrow....

Kim

Also, a willingness to come home and work on the marriage. Have you even seen any inclination of that whatsoever? Is this why Bob was calling?

Bob said that WH is getting to a "good low point". I don't really know what that means. And that he is "beginning" to understand why a NC letter is needed.....

I am not jumping up and down thinking that "this is it" for sure, but I think he is uncomfortable in the state he is in now.

There is still a LONG way to go in my opinion. Namely, behaving like OW has dropped off the face of the earth.

Bob did say that WH wanted to make a fresh start of our M.

Kim

Uncomfortable is good! Stick to your guns.