Yesterday was different.

I know I posted several times and was in fairly deep despair, but it was a day of growth and change for me. I can't say I have any more or less particular hope for the M than I did before but I am not as anxious as I was.

On Weds (2 days ago) we spoke to a Christian counselor, and we also had an appointment with our Pastor. Despite my protests that I am ready willing and able to do everthing I can to work on the M, and that I didn't want a D, the counselor told us both that although the M could certainly be saved if we both worked on it and wanted it to be saved, she didn't know if we were either one really willing or able to do what needed to be done.

Her assignment was for us to each come up with a list of what we think we've done to contribute to the downfall of the M. Part of me was really offended. I *knew* I hadn't been there for my W, emotionally, but I *did* really love her. I had undiagnosed depression that stemmed from a severe childhood illness, and that really crippled me, emotionally for many years. But my W didn't care and wouldn't cut me any slack. She had the A, and she's the one who wants the D... It just didn't seem at all fair to point the finger at me anymore. I can't change history... I had appologized, and I really do want to be a better H, but none of that seemed to count, at all.

But, despite the fact that I didn't really think I should be blamed (the tort law concept of "superceeding cause" kept coming to mind... darn bar exam prep!), I was serious when I said that I would do what I could to work on the M, and if that meant dredging through my past to contemplate every way I've fallen short as a H that I could remember, then so be it.

I came up with a bigger list than I thought I would, but I'm sure it would have been a longer list had the counselor asked my W to write the list of my failures! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> It was something of an eyeopener. I tried not to "justify" my actions or attitudes based on extinuating circumstances. (See "Strict liability"). I tried to look at how my actions impacted my W and her emotional well-being for all the years of our M.

Anyway, later that evening, we went to see our Pastor. I'm really happy that my W went with me. She originally had the appointment for herself, but cancelled. So I took the appointment when the Pastor's office called and offered it to me. However, my W, kinda last minute, decided to come along to make sure I didn't say anything malicious and/or untrue about her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I had told the Pastor on Sunday that over our Anniversary vacation a couple weeks ago, my lovely bride had told me she wanted a D, and that she was STILL in contact w/ OM. Our pastor already knew about the A this past summer.

When we got to the office, I spent most of the time biting my tongue. It's easy to justify myself... "She's the one who had the A! She's the one who wants the D, even though the Bible says 'N0!'"

I asked the questions I knew my W needed to hear answers to, that is, "Can our M be saved if we both try?" And, "If it will take a miracle, then is it a miracle we can count on?"

Yes on both counts.

Our Pastor then did something that kind of surprised me... He turned to me and said that although he wasn't there to assign "blame" that I, as the H, have primary responsibility for the health of the M. In our case, since the Bible tells me to love my W as Christ loves the Church, that means I had the Covenant DUTY to protect her (1) physically, (2) emotionally, (3) financially, and (4) spiritually.

While I had done a passable job with items 1 and 3, I had failed miserably with 2 and 4. Because it was a covenant relationship, my duty was absolute (strict liability for failure) and since I was the H and covenant initiator, I had the greater responsibility by definition.

All of what I've said so far is a re-cap. The important part is what he told me next and what I came to understand yesterday. He spoke of my duty to repent. As the H, I am supposed to be like a spiritual umbrella over my W. When I fail in my covenant duties, she gets wet... and the enemy can get to her. Although I have a strict liability to fulfil my duty to her, there is a difference in quality of the damage based on whether my failure was due to ignorance (mere negligence) or was willful or knowing. When the mistake was mere negligence, the primary spiritual impact is largely deflected because of Grace. However, when my failures were willful, there was no Grace afforded, and I earned judgment. Not eternal judgment, but I opened the door to a present injury to my family, and the only way to begin to repair the "umbrella" was to truly repent.

I was confused. I thought I HAD repented. So I asked him what more was required of me... I wish I had never done the things that hurt my W, and I would turn back the clock and undo the actions if I could. That was the right mindset, of course, but he explained further that the Bible talks (First or Second Timothy towards the end of Chap. 2) about believers being "granted" repentance.

I had never thought about the need to be granted repentance. I thought that if you recognized your errors and said you were sorry to God, then that WAS repentance. It's not. That's only the surface. My problem was that for so long I had developed my intellectual understanding of evertthing I encountered (religion, philosophy, law, science, etc.) that I simply did not know how to have my heart in the right place to truly repent.

Yesterday was about that process for me. I spent much of the day praying. I prayed to be granted repentance, because I honestly didn't want the things that had damaged my W's love for me to the point that she was vulnerable for an A in my life anymore. By the time evening rolled around, I finally started understanding. I finally started feeling a glimpse of how I had grieved the Holy Spirit in my failures as a H and father. I know my W has her own issues and her own repentance to come, but she has no emotional home to stay in if I don't fix myself first.

As I began to truly repent... with my heart, and not just my head, I started to feel how profoundly I had hurt my wife, and understand why she was so afraid to let me try to win her heart back.

And then the strange thing... Peace.

I've known all along that trying to save the M was the right thing, and that's had a sustaining effect, but the peace was deeper. I still want my W to understand how badly she's hurt me, but I couldn't demand she see my perspective when she couldn't trust her heart in our marriage. I was truly sorry for what I had done to her on a level that went beyond knowing that I had to be a better H.

I don't know if my W will ever turn around. I hope for her own sake that she does. I do love her, and I know the future we could have together will be truly fulfilling to both of us, but for my part, I'm sorry, and I know I've truly repented, so God has finally been able to give me the forgiveness He's wanted to give all along.

Why does learning have to be sooooo painful?

My H and I went to a Christian counselor who pretty much said the same thing but not so eloquently. My H just got mad. It sounds like you got it. Personally, I know that satan can come against us and can take us farther and keep us longer than we ever thought but, the A was her choice; no excuse.

I pray that she will see the difference in you. I pray that the two of you will be one of the lucky couples that can move past the hurt on both sides and be able to make it work.

I've got lots of little sayings that I've taken from emails over the years:

Stop telling God how big your storm is. Instead tell your storm how big God is.

Harsh words break no bones but they do break hearts.

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take but by the moments that take our breath away.

And........
Life isn't like a box of chocolates....it's more like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today might burn your butt tomorrow!!!

God Bless.

It's a very tough thing to do to ask someone who's been devastated by his/her spouse's A to look at his/her own faults first.

Very early in the recovery process, I read about how I set up the conditions... and I accepted it, intellectually, and purposed to change. That was nice, for what it was worth, but it wasn't empathy, and it didn't reassure my W that her heart was safe with me, and so the initial hope was dashed and now she's ready to bolt.

The kicker comes when you realize that you need to, not only suffer through your own pain, but partake in the pain you've caused your spouse.

I almost envy the spouses of true reprobates... At least there, the WS is just a low-life and, although you can't really save the M, you can feel relatively free from the guilt of hurting your spouse... You only really have the guilt of bad judgment in picking your spouse.

I found something harder than experiencing empathy for the pain my WW felt to drive her to where the A seemed like a good idea, and where D appears to be the only real option.

I opened myself up to my W, and told her I was finally starting to feel the pain I had caused her, and told her I was sorry, and I understood why she felt that our M was hopeless, though I hoped she would wait and see otherwise.

Her response has been civil, since I've been low-key, but she's spending the evening appartment shopping. She's convinced she's going to go. She doesn't believe my appology is real. She thinks I'm pretending to have "changed" overnight.

I told her that I see what she's saying, and I understand why she's saying it, because I think I do, but all I'm saying is that my perspective has changed, not that *I* have instantly become someone else.

The only way she'll know that I've changed is if she actually goes NC, and she waits to see the difference work its way into my life. That's what she doesn't want to do.

Our pastor gave me the majority of the burden for having caused the demise of our marriage and for starting it's restoration. Okay. However, he told my W that there was one thing she *should* do even while she's wanting out. He said she should start to pray blessings over me, and in so doing, she would start to align her heart to what God wants to see, and that would help her change her opinion of me to be closer to God's.

I hope she is heeding that instruction. She's re-written so much of our life to believe that it's been a non-stop 13 year torture session that she deserves a Nobel Prize for enduring. I'm nowhere near perfect, but I'm not the worthless unloveable slug she sees me as being.

I want my wife back. I love her. Having a heart of stone towards her like she has towards me would make her contempt for me easier to bear, but I don't want that. Is that my old self-centeredness rearing its head through my pain?

Perhaps.

What she's doing is wrong. What she's doing is hurting me, and she doesn't seem to care. Nevertheless, without grace and forgiveness, even small offenses would mount up over time. It's not a question of who's more guilty... I broke her heart before she broke mine, and I don't have a right to demand that she give me another chance. I can only pray she lets God give her that grace to hold out until she's ready to feel the hurt she's caused me.

Pray for me. It looks like it's going to get darker before it gets light again. And when it is light again, I have no idea what the new landscape will look like.

I personally pray that you will be blessed with the power to change what you can change and the power to accept that which you can not change.

Mr. Wondering, JD, LL.M. in Taxation

Tested...

Phenomenal Post...thank you for sharing that...I think that you would really enjoy reading The Roles of Husbands and Wives that Mortarman put together...the link is in his signature line...He is a regular poster...make sure to look him up...good stuff...

Also, I responded to you on your ? for FWW's thread...hope there's something there that you can use...

Prayers 4 U!!!

Mrs. W

Mrs. W.,

When the A ended, did you have contempt for or otherwise dislike your H? If so, how long did that dislike last and did it dissipate on it's own or did your H do something in particular to bring you around?

My W doesn't like me. She feels no love for me, says she doesn't want to like me or fall for me, and doesn't think God can or will intervene in a way that would make our M something she would be willing to continue in.

She won't sleep in the same room anymore... she's on the couch for almost a week now. She tells me that she thinks that sleeping in the same room feels like a lie to her as if she's pretending we're okay.

I just want her to take a break from actively disliking me long enough to see that I do care about her feelings and AM changing, slowly but surely, in ways that will make our marriage a place that's safe for her heart.

It just feels like she has her deflector shields on full strength, and has cut off all communications while she loads the photon torpedos... I'm broadcasting the intergalactic signal for a willingness to discuss an armistice, but she will not receive it.

It's so frustrating to have no hope, but not be able to shake faith. Something has got to break... I don't know how much longer I can go on like this.

TD

Mr. W here with Mrs. W's by my side doing her nails....arghhh.

To answer your question...While in the affair....absolute contempt for me. Until you bust up the affair and get no contact nothing you can do or say will make one iota of a difference with regards to her feelings/love for you. What you need to remember right now is that CONTEMPT is foggese. WW's need that to justify and rationalize what they are doing. Just like the affair is not real their contempt is not real either. You can choose to listen to it...in fact, you have to in Plan A...but do not internalize it. The sooner you get this the sooner you'll be into an effective Plan A. YOU ARE LOVABLE...YOUR LIFE LOVED YOU BEFORE AND SHE'LL LIKELY LOVE YOU AGAIN...EITHER WAY YOU'LL BE OK.

How did I do it? I snooped a lot on my wife and the more I listened the more I understood that she and he were lying their butts off to one another. Every little thing I did was relayed to OM with such negativity. Many things were so embellished I knew it was hogwash. Sometimes I would discuss our history or remind her of better times...but that is usually ignored. You can only do what you do and try to accept that which you can not change. This whole thing is a process. In the end you will either obtain successful marital recovery or personal recovery. Just stick to the plan.

Believe only 50% of what you see and 0% of what she says.

Have patience my friend,

Mr. Wondering

I’m so glad that all of you in this forum seem to KNOW who I really am. Oops! I’m sorry…I guess that was a DJ.

I am posting this same message on every one of my husband’s (TestedDevotion) threads.

I know that people in this forum are trying to be helpful. However, it’s very difficult to be the judge and jury when you’ve only heard half of the case (as hubby would say, “It’s easy to indict a ham sandwich”), and perhaps it would be wise to think twice before making far-reaching assumptions based solely upon stereotypes and one-side of the story. I’m not going to use this opportunity to justify myself or my actions, because I don’t have the innate need to be right all of the time, unlike TestedDevotion (yes, that is a DJ, but a well-earned one). Perhaps as you read the letter he posted on the Letter I sent to foggy WW - Was it a mistake to send it? thread, you might just get a glimpse of what life is like in my household. Maybe if you’d lived in an atmosphere like that for a decade or more AND felt devalued by your spouse daily (in actions, not words…and we know that actions speak much more loudly) AND dutifully catered to what you felt were the selfish desires of your spouse AND felt as though you bore 90% of the burden of raising three small children…maybe only then you can understand that I’ve just had it! My body, my mind, my spirit, and my heart are all completely worn out. For me, staying in this marriage to heal it (it’s been shot in the head 10 times and is on life support right now) is like expecting a tire who’s tread has been worn down to the steel belts to perform perfectly in the snow.

Should I have had an affair? Absolutely not. Am I sorry that I did it? Yes, I am VERY sorry that I did it. I only wish I’d had the strength to separate from my husband before getting involved with another man. And, as it turns out, I was never really “in love” with the OM…I was merely in love with the idea of being “in love,” as I have so desperately craved love throughout my marriage, and TestedDevotion was unable to give it to me.

And perhaps, before rushing to judgment about me, you should know that TestedDevotion’s old screen ID was BronzeGuy from this board (Summer 2005) and mine was PHgirl (also summer 2005), and our exploits into “swinging” and the subsequent turmoil that lifestyle created are clearly chronicled in the “In Recovery” discussion topic.

For the record…had the “swinging” never taken place, the affair never would have either. I was a monogamous, devoted, caring wife to my husband for the first 12 ½ years of marriage. I gave him MUCH more emotional support and made MANY more sacrifices (both for his sake and for the sake of our family) than he ever did for me. However, because he had undiagnosed depression during that time, he has acted as though that’s his “get out of jail free” card…he “unknowingly” destroyed my self-esteem, depleted my love bank, emotionally neglected me, and manipulated me into his way of thinking (hammering home his point until I cried “uncle”)…so I should just forgive and forget and move on as if my heart hasn’t been broken (more like ripped to shreds) for the last nearly dozen years???

I am NOT saying that there weren’t good times that we’ve shared over the years, NOR am I saying that I played no part in the breakdown of our marriage. There were many good times, and perhaps it’s those good times that had given me the strength to stick it out in our marriage for as long as I have. My contributions to the marriage’s demise aren’t minor, I’m sure. I had the affair. Ok, we all know that by now. I was very critical of him in the beginning of our marriage, especially when he made mistakes that I know I wouldn’t have made…my perfectionism was often difficult to live with (even though I held myself to a higher standard than I expected of him)…I yelled when we had arguments…I was judgmental of him when he was too “blind” to see the important details in a given situation (but details are part of MY personality and he’s more of a “big picture” guy)…and I’m sure the list goes on and on.

The sad thing is that he said, throughout our marriage, that I expected him to “read my mind.” However, I told him in so many ways what I needed, but he never heard me. It wasn’t until he read one of the Dr. Harley books (12 ½ years after we were married) when he finally GOT it, to some extent…and I said to him, “I’ve been telling you those VERY same things for years, but you never listened.”

Beat me up all you want for wanting out of my marriage. Argue that I’m “in the fog” (of an affair that is NOT continuing). Continue to support TestedDevotion in his one-sidedness. This forum has fanned the flames in our household recently, both before and after I discovered what he was posting. I’m moving out of our house very soon. We’ve told the kids, and I’m hunting for a place to live. Perhaps some time apart, where we’re not in each other’s faces all the time (he ONLY wants to talk about the state of our relationship at any given moment), will give us the chance to reflect on what we’ve done to kill this marriage, and why we ever got married in the first place. I have no idea what the future holds…but perhaps all of you veteran MB’s can look into your crystal balls and tell me what lies ahead (there goes another one of those nasty DJs).

Crystal