Why do you tell someone you love them when they clearly clearly have no concept of the meaning of love...

why tell them this..

does it help..
or does it add to their confusion and inability to act like a decent human..

does it give permission to continue their path of cruelity...

why do YOU tell such a person who behaves thusly you LOVE them...

what does that mean...

what do YOU mean by that...

I think God would rather you stay home from church and engage in nonsensical banter and powerstruggling...
NOTE The SARCASM...God would like it if you went a whole day without talking one more time him...

ARK^^

"He's never threatened to hurt me although he has told me that there were times when I was asleep (when we were still together) that he thought about killing me. But, I have to say that he has said so many things to me only to turn around and say that he wasn't serious, didn't mean it, didn't do it, etc."

YIKES!!!!! And you don't think that someone who said there were times he thought about killing you in your sleep is dangerous?????

why do YOU tell such a person who behaves thusly you LOVE them...

God only knows why I continue. I did it again this morning. I took the calls and I stayed away from church. I'm back home now. My child is at church w/my family and I let him get to me again w/his threats.

I don't know how to end it.

I sit on the phone and "engage in nonsensical banter and powerstruggling..." when I should be in church. I allow him to threaten me into backing down. He has another woman that he threatens me w/by saying that he is going to see her and he is going to make sure I find out so that he can hurt me w/it. He is going to make me pay for all I've done to him.

So, I back down, tuck my tail and run home instead of going to church.

Is there a way to recover a marriage that has had so much go on; so much nastiness, so much of everything?

He tells me he loves me and that he does what he does because I make him so mad and because what I do hurts him.

He's mad because I'm going to same church other guy is at. I try to tell him if I wanted the other guy he/I would be divorced a long time ago. We've been separated x 2 years and I've been friends w/guy for about 3 1/2.

I guess I really waffle about continuing w/the divorce because I know when I do he is going to make it hard and nasty. I make most of the $, I have the insurance, I help him w/company paperwork. When I go he won't be able to be quite the big shot that he portrays himself to be (my $ still goes into joint account. Even though I don't live in house I still help w/all bills, living expenses).

He tells me I'm such a slut, w**re, etc. as compared to this wonderful woman that is waiting in the wings for us to divorce. According to him she told him when they first met that when we divorce she would like to date him. Now they are just friends and talk at 2am on the cell phone. He does a lot of business in area where she lives. I don't believe that he only talks on phone and only occasionally. He has had two affairs that I know of; one on 1st wife and one on me. My gut is there's a lot more there and he uses excuse of me talking w/this guy to justify talking w/her.

Geez, I sound so pitiful and needy!!! I make myself sick!!! I feel so stupid when I think of all I've put up with. A saint I'm not. I've lied about stupid stuff and big stuff. I talked to this guy and shouldn't have. I've made lots of mistakes in this marriage. And, he deserves chance to find someone else and be happy if I'm not willing to go back home.

YIKES!!!!! And you don't think that someone who said there were times he thought about killing you in your sleep is dangerous?????


You know, I never know if he's just trying to be dramatic (he's a great drama "king") or if he's serious. He has said so much only to come back later and say "You know I wouldn't really do that" that I often don't know what to think.

Divorce him. Most people who murder their spouses threaten to harm them first. I think your husband must be extremely sick to even threaten something like this kiddingly.

Get some counseling to see why you let yourself be treated so poorly.

I went to a Christian counselor 4-5 times by myself and laid out for her all the things I've done in my past that he had such a problem with. A lot of it was stuff I did to myself, some was stuff done to me. I've spent most of my life from early 20s to now (mid 40s) trying to become a better person and put the past behind me only to wake up to what I have now.

I'm in a marriage where my husband cheated less than 1 year after we married.
He put his kids stupidity and control of our lives over our marriage.
He put jobs, friends, desire for big "toys" over our marriage.
He stopped going to church.
He dug at me incessantly about my past. When I did tell him stuff he then used it against me when he was mad or if I made a comment about something his kids were doing he would say "Well, you did a lot worse as a teenager than what they ever did".

Now, he threatens to tell my awful past to people. I don't know what to do about that. Not the "him telling" part but, when the divorce is over, and I meet someone that I would like to date how do I tell them about my past of which I am so ashamed and for which a lot of men might go the other way?

I've told him that I don't really care what he does and to tell whomever he wants to tell but I don't really mean that. I would be devastated if he really did that and the sad thing is I don't want to hurt him like that.

When I say I still love him I don't think I really mean it. I think I really just care about his well being than love him. I am not "in" love with him; I do know that.

I'm just a mixed up puppy!!!

When you say "I love you" to an abusive man

what you are doing

is

substuting abusive man

for abusive parent

and trying to re-write your childhood

this is not going to work

YOU are trying to prove yourself loveable by winning over this ogre

that way

whatever your non-loving parent did to you as a child is

"fixed"

except

it does not work

Actually, I didn't have a non-loving parent. What I did have was a dad who died way too young when I was only 10. I was in every way Daddy's little girl and I hurt over the loss to this day.
My mom was a hardworking woman and I love her dearly. She's still w/us.

I do believe though that I made some poor choices because I didn't have my Dad and I was trying to replace that love only I went about it in all the wrong ways. Apparently, I'm still trying to do that and that really sucks!!!! I also had some other issues as a child that I won't mention here but they contributed greatly to this situation.

So, you're wrong about the parent thing but you are probably right about the other. I'm still that little insecure teenager that was trying to find love "in all the wrong places". I know now that I have the best love of all and that's God's love but I often forget that in light of wanting an earthly love. I desparately want to share my life with someone and it hurts.

there is NOTHING NORMAL about being called a slut by your husband...

there is NOTHING LOVING about being called a slut by your husband...

there is NOTHING NORMAL about being threatened over going to church
there is NOTHING LOVING about being threatened over going to church...

you need ATLEAST TWO WEEKS of NO CONTACT with this chaos...

you KNOW NOTHING DIFFEERENT>...how long has it been since you have gone 24hours without being put down or attacked by your husband.........

healthy normal relationships have disagreements...you don't have those...you have vile violent verbal and sometimes physical interactions...

this is ALL you have come to know
it is familiar
and you return to it day after day...and we know this cause in reality you seperated yourslef physically and then changed nothing else..

you still soak up the abuse like a sponge...

you are in serious danger yourself of returning you and DAUGHTER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
to that home...and then she is at SERIOUS risk for she herself seeking out and staying in a abusive relationship...

you can change your family tree here and now.....

I refuse to discuss or advise divorce..that is so trivial compared for your need to be safe......

safe from verbal abuse
safe from threats
safe from put downs....

safe from threat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

normal husbands don't threaten their wives...

your husband is mentally ill .and I am being kind for I am more inclined to say he is a monster.....

but he needs help

you can not help him
and you can not save him.......

you volunteer each time you interact with him for his chaos......

and don't you dare please drag your daughter down with you...

ARK

I believe that my actions have contributed to the chaos. I'm not saying I've caused it or deserved it.

We've had problems since day one.

I have been dishonest about my past, about sharing things with my family (dishonoring him). I've also talked w/the guy at church and then lied about it to him. He was told by friends in church that I was talking w/the guy and would ask and I would say "no". Like I said before I haven't had anything to do w/the guy other than talking at church and that is very seldom now. We have never had any kind of relationship; just talking.

I think a man's self esteem and feeling of self worth are so wrapped up (or at least this one's is) in what others think about them that to have anyone think that his wife might be attracted to someone else or that he isn't enough of a man to keep his wife happy is of major impact.

My husband is the kind of person that would make a great detective or trial attorney. He can also be cold and calculating. Conversely, he can be very loving. I just seem to bring out the worst in him.

Again, I don't accept the blame for the malicious way he treats me but I know that I have done things that have given him what he believes is justification to act as he does.

life2...

there is nothing you can say that convinces me that you deserve or being called foul names is warranted by your husband...

nothing...

if you are so vile...(which you aren't) he should/would leave you...

if you are so vile (which you aren't) he should support and love you and reward positive change...

but he does neither of these things...instead he draws you in to his sick world of abuse and blame....

he cheats on you
he has no idea what love is or means..for he is not loving..

love in constant not a weapon to be dealt out in measured quantities enough to string you along....

I think a man's self esteem and feeling of self worth are so wrapped up (or at least this one's is) in what others think about them that to have anyone think that his wife might be attracted to someone else or that he isn't enough of a man to keep his wife happy is of major impact.

this is not even remotely close to the definition of a man....

this is your excusing his bad bad actions...

there is no way to justify calling your spouse a slut and all those other names you hear over and over...

you are in danger for you believe this is normal..and explainable...

there is nothing normal about his treatment...

nothing
excusable
nothing
understandable...

the real men on this site..the good men...the godly men..

mortarman, bobpure, WAT, FrankD...familymatters justlearning...redhat.lemonman...2long..and so many many more of them that I admire....and apologize for not calling out...

none of them...
and I'd bet my last peso on this....

would say or treat their spouses the way you describe...and ironically they are some of the BS...with "more reasons" than your husband the WS has to say such things to you a woman...

...and not one listed and the many not listed would ever ever ever say or treat a person the way you describe...

to you it has become explainable..understandable...and the only way you know...and it is comforting and less frightening to you than going through life without being called vile names...and threatened...

you have no MAN in your life...for what you describe is not a MAN..

life2
I challenge you to go 24 hours with no contact....and that first 24 hours won't count for you will concentrate and obsess about him...so I challenge you for 24 hours following the first....and then I beg another...

so free yourself for THREE whole days from him...
three days of not being called names
not being accused
not being sworn at...

seek solace
seek sanctuary...
seek within...and find strength...

three days without his BULLCRAP
I beg you to start there...

ARK

I know that you are right.

I have put myself in a situation where I have allowed myself to be walked on time and time again. I put up with the way he treats me as though I have no choice and as though this is what I deserve.

I actually went a couple of days last week with almost no contact and it really felt good. Of course, the crap started yesterday because of church today. He had to get his digs in. And, I just realized that he would rather keep me out of church by starting the crap than allow me to go to church in peace even if the other guy was going to be there.

He will be going out of town this coming weekend and I am looking forward to that break.

I appreciate your continued honesty and your continued posts. The message really is sinking in. And, you are right. We've gone back and forth so much over these last few years that I know what the next step will be. He will tell me it's over, he's moving on, he'll be seeing XXXX and then he will start paging me and leaving voicemails telling me how much he loves me and how I am the best thing that has ever happened to him and that I love him more than he has ever been loved. Actually, I think I'm just the biggest sucker he's ever latched onto!!!!!!!!!

" mortarman, bobpure, WAT, FrankD...familymatters justlearning...redhat.lemonman...2long..and so many many more of them that I admire....and apologize for not calling out...

none of them...
and I'd bet my last peso on this....

would say or treat their spouses the way you describe...and ironically they are some of the BS...with "more reasons" than your husband the WS has to say such things to you a woman..."

Can any of you mentioned in Ark's post comment on this? Ark, not that I don't believe you because I do but I would like to get a man's take on what has been going on. Many of you who have replied may be men but, that's not always evident.

For those of you who were cheated on and when things got really bad, did you verbally abuse your wife the way my H has me? Is this a bad sign that I'm probably in for more of the same for the rest of my marriage to him if I decide to stay? I know none of you have a crystal ball but any insight you have would be appreciated.

I've often told him I have been cursed more in the 9 yesrs we have been together than in the 47 I've been on this earth.

bump

I'm still new on this site.

By "bump" you mean.........

by "bump" we are putting you at the top of the forum list - your issues are much more important to deal with than threads like Ashley's or the other guy .....

" mortarman, bobpure, WAT, FrankD...familymatters justlearning...redhat.lemonman...2long..and so many many more of them that I admire....and apologize for not calling out...

none of them...
and I'd bet my last peso on this....

would say or treat their spouses the way you describe...and ironically they are some of the BS...with "more reasons" than your husband the WS has to say such things to you a woman..."

Can any of you mentioned in Ark's post comment on this? Ark, not that I don't believe you because I do but I would like to get a man's take on what has been going on. Many of you who have replied may be men but, that's not always evident.

For those of you who were cheated on and when things got really bad, did you verbally abuse your wife the way my H has me? Is this a bad sign that I'm probably in for more of the same for the rest of my marriage to him if I decide to stay? I know none of you have a crystal ball but any insight you have would be appreciated.

I've often told him I have been cursed more in the 9 yesrs we have been together than in the 47 I've been on this earth.

Well, I feel kind of hopeless.

I've gotten such great advice from so many of you. Great words of wisdom. I know the final step in either direction (go home or go forward w/divorce) is a decision only I can make. It's just hard. I think the hardest part is packing up all the dreams and unfulfilled plans.

He left a VM this morning to say he had dreamed about me last night and that in the dream I was in love w/someone else and that I told my H that I was waiting on that person and that I would wait forever if necessary. Said I told him that I was tired of lieing and that I wanted to be honest that I was in love w/someone else.

Went on to say that he was sorry he couldn't be the person I wanted him to be and that he loved me. Said he knows he's done some things wrong but that he can't put up w/me going to same church as guy he accuses me of having A with. (never happened).

About 4 years ago I would have fallen at his feet if he had told me he loved me and wanted to be w/me. Now, the words just fall flat because they are intermingled with all the other junk that goes on and has gone on.

I really feel like such an indecisive basket case. I've done the pros and cons until I don't want to think about them anymore. I am in such a state of limbo. I don't have a marriage but I'm not divorced. I don't have a home but I still help pay the bills there. He's still controlling my life. If he doesn't call I don't bother him. Then, he calls me to say that I haven't called so I must be on the phone calling the other guy!!!

I dropped my child at church yesterday but caved to his pressure and went back home while church was in session. When he found out he said I must have gone home to work on divorce papers!!!!! Actually I spent the time here!!!!

Either I heard this on TV (Charles Stanley) or read in book by Joel Osteen:

"Do not ask the Lord to guide your footsteps if you are not willing to move your feet".

Pray for me that I will be willing to move my feet when God says "Go".

Thanks to all for advice.

God yells and screams GO everytime your husband calls you a bit$$ and and a slut...and any other foul name...

Go GO GO gO go GO he says....

and you stay...

I know I am riding you hard....
but I am so very little concerned about the babble from his mouth...
and so very concerned about your ability to rationalize and go back for more more more..

again this is NOT about divorce..
this is about distance from his insanity of abuse...

ARK