I think it would be a good idea to take this a step further, and try to find out why the child has become so reluctant to being left with this person, especially if the child was OK with it before.

t&l

Man Charged With Raping, Killing 7-Month-Old Niece

March 13, 2006

A 32-year-old Ohio man was arrested and charged over the weekend with raping and killing his 7-month-old niece.

Police in Waynesburg said Henry Anthony Sunderman, 32, called 911 Friday.

When emergency crews responded, they found Zoey Sunderman unresponsive. The 7-month-old later died in the hospital.

After questioning Sunderman, the man was arrested at his Canton home.

Officers said the man was caring for the infant, along with her 5-year-old brother and two sisters while their mother was at work.

Sunderman had been arrested before on various charges, including domestic violence, according to the report.

And people wonder why I'm so "picky" about whom I let watch my children.

Just bumping this to the top to make it easier for Neak to post this morning. Molested children have a lot of anger. They can be like seething bundles of rage, barely contained by their own skin. It can be directed at themselves, or at others. Regardless, it's never pretty.

t&l

In my own burning childhood rage against myself, I NEVER EVER EVER did anything so long-lasting, so, so.....visible. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Pic 1

Pic 2

Pic 3

Pic 4

Cross-posted from the hygiene products thread...

I'm very conflicted about this, and how we should react to it. On the one hand, there's what Neaksis first suggested, that the DivaDramaQueen wanted attention, got a semi-satisfying amount last week the first time she cut her hair, and was just trying to get some more by doing this. On the other hand, for a little girl so obsessed with beautiful people, etc., it has seemed to me that for a very long time she's gone out of her way to make herself appear unattractive and grungy. Is there someone, or some recurring situation, that has been reactivating her memories of being molested, and her fear of it recurring, and she wants to make herself ugly as a protection? Did starting back to counseling open a festering wound and let some of the ugliness spill out? (Not that I'm suggesting that the counseling should stop...) I also can't escape the feeling that there's a great deal of self-loathing behind this escapade, and that it's similar to the whole cutting/mutilation subset of psychiatric disorders, only without the blood and scars and stuff. This is a very disturbed little girl, and I'm afraid that the hair butchering will progress to something more dangerous and permanent if we don't figure out the right thing and get it done. Scary.

t&l

Gosh, it could be all of those things.

I know that I walked slumped shouldered in my developing years- because at that time my stepfather was trying to sexually molest me and made comments about my breasts growing. So, I didn't want him to notice them so I would slump.

To this day I still slump- can't help myself but I never made the connection until counseling. I didn't want anyone to notice my breasts......

My pretty, kind and shy niece. Very gentle and caring. Until a trigger....

The screaming, self loathing, cutting herself, pounding on others near her, threats to KILL her half brother and the rest of her family, swallowing random pills. Screaming to heaven that she just wants to die, begging God to make her daddy love her.

I don't know how to help her. I still don't know what all of her triggers are.

Her typical cycle is 6mo home, some trigger incident, locked up in psyche for a few weeks, then to a foster home for a few months. Cycle repeats...

She exhibits all the classical "acting out" signs. I would bet the farm that "daddy" did unto her as he did her older sisters.

"Daddy" is currently in jail on a charge of "INCEST with CHILD". "Daddy" is due to be released from prison in late 2007. He will then be placed on "Active Supervision". I've still not gotten a straight answer what that will entail.

My eldest DD will be in ECM's "target age" when he is released. I'm very concerned what the future may hold in a year and a half.

Don't mind me too much. Just venting... Sometimes I feel that when I talk to certain people in authority that they don't take me seriously when I tell them how dangerous I think this man is.

My WH was molested by his older sister (7 years older) when he was 4-7 years old. She was physically abusive, threaten him with violence if he told and mentally abusive. WH used to beg his mom not to leave. WH had two other older sisters, one who walked in on the abuse and did nothing. WH felt like no one would help him so he took it. I don't know, but I'm guessing his sister was abused by someone and that is where her behavior stemmed from.

I didn't know any of this until WH told me during one of his many conversations during his A that he wanted a D from me. It was like he would say he wanted a D, then tell me some clue as to his real self...not sure about all of that. He never confronted her and never mentioned it to my MIL or his other three sisters. The abusive sister passed away about 7 months ago. I feel somewhat helpless as it isn't my story to tell, but I wish he would come out with it. WH feels he doesn't want to cause any emotional stress to his mother, who is 77 now, and the others. He doesn't see that there is anything to gain by talking about it. I see it as he hasn't dealt with it and thus will contribute to his being a healthy partner. WH feels ashamed, as he is a male, albeit much younger, and his abuser was a female, albeit his sister. I don't know much about this subject, but I can guess that this situation causes quite a lot of damage to his self-esteem. All of these unresolved issues lead to a continued risk of another A, IMOH.

I am bumping this thread because there are a lot of new people on MB, and the whole issue of sexual predation in general, and also as it relates to single parents, is still (and unfortunately, will continue to be) very relevant. Hope it helps folks to keep their eyes open. Forewarned is forearmed. This is forewarning.

t&l

I had mentioned awhile ago that I would post my BIL's story. It is below.

It is an active thread on the Emotional Needs board.

***********************************************************

Well, here it is, finally.

My very own thread.

I apologize in advance for this long post. I will try to give you the pertinent details so you can decide if we (Mrs. Field & I) are asking too for much from MIL (My wife’s mother).

We'll start back over twenty-two years ago. Mrs. Field and I are Newlyweds. My BIL and I are friendly and help each other out in any way we can.

BIL (20 at this time) is a skilled mechanic and has opened a small engine repair business bought for him by his parents. He will soon marry his GF (whom was carrying identical twin girls at this time).

As some young newlyweds have to: They relied a great deal on financial & moral support from their family. We were glad to help out! And happy to see BIL, SIL, & twin girls when able. It didn't take long for the first cracks in their relationship to show.

BIL's business was struggling. He was getting less and less walk-in traffic as the months wore on even though he had a prime location downtown. I had heard from MIL that BIL was having problems but had never visited his place of business before. I went to the town that he lived in and dropped in to offer any assistance that I could.

The first thing that I noticed was that his "showroom" was filthy! Not just dusty from not having enough time to "tidy up" but Filthy! I was in my "good" cloths at the time and would not have sat down on any of the chairs or stools in his "showroom". There were grease smears, fast food wrappers, and other trash scattered about. IMHO NOT a good first impression. Some of the "other" trash that I mentioned were porno mags and beer cans!

I mentioned to him (in the nicest way I knew how) that his showroom really needed to be cleaned up! I offered to help him clean up / make more attractive shelves and even paint if he wanted to do that. He basically said "*#%@ U". I kind of expected that and didn't take that one personally. He seemed to have been operating on a shorter and shorter fuse the longer the business struggled. What he said out loud next actually surprised me. "If the customers don't like the way I keep my shop then *#%@ them too!"

His business folded less than a year after that incident.

After his business folded he started taking a lot of odd jobs / swing shifts to support his family. He and his W started arguing more and more. His W wanted him around more to help her with the children. BIL wanted to work more and make more $$ so that they could afford a nicer place to live. BIL started working more and more and spending less and less time with his W.

This pattern went on for a few years: BIL feeling stressed out from working too many hours and his W feeling neglected and abandoned. You can probably guess what happened next. BIL's W became a WW. BIL's W had an affair. BIL's WW moved in with her BF and Divorced BIL.

After the D BIL was granted full custody of all his children and his XWW had to pay CS. It was just after this that his XWW started accusing him of sexually abusing his children. We expected that it was just a trumped up charge in a desperate attempt to get custody of the COM. The police investigated and found no basis for the charge. The matter was dropped.

For the next 12+ years a new pattern developed. BIL floated from job to job. Never keeping one for more than a few years, sometimes only a few months. He tended to make the day care providers he got for his children his GF's and moving them into his home. BIL did this a number of times. He started drinking more and more heavily. Only now instead of just at night it would start in the morning and continue on all day. He started having minor run ins with the Law. And throughout all those years XWW would appear occasionally and accuse him of sexually abusing his children. As usual the police conducted an investigation and found no basis for the accusation.

He started becoming more and more impatient / short fused with family members / relative / friends in general. BIL, whom I had liked very much, was becoming more angry and bitter with each passing year. To be perfectly honest, I started to avoid him because he was becoming so unpleasant to be around.

BIL had hoped / dreamed to take over the family farm. It has been in their family for almost 200 years. To that end he asked his folks for a few acres of land to build a house on. They agreed if he could get the financing for it. FIL and MIL would not finance his building of the house (they had already bought the house that he was living in rent free). He financing request was turned down by the bank. After that happened he refused to pay the survey company. The survey company put a lien on the land that he wanted to build on. Another bitter disappointment for him. And again, those nagging accusations from his EXWW.

After the attempt to build a new house on the farm fell through he started have more frequent / more serious skirmishes with the law. At one point he attacked the oldest son of his current GF / day care provider with a HAMMER! He was sentenced to probation for this.

During the late 90's my FIL's health began to fail. MIL needed to keep working to provide the insurance they needed to continue FIL's treatments. FIL at this time needed someone to "look in" on him occasionally. MIL looked into nursing services but could not afford the $18,000+ per year for the service and their insurance would not cover it.

Now comes the part where Mrs. Field and I most likely earned BIL's true ire. During this time Mrs. Field was a stay at home mom because our youngest (then) had Junior Rheumatoid Arthritis (JRA). We were in a position financially where we could buy a parcel of land / pay off the lien on said land (from the survey company) and build a new house. With a lot of sweat equity we pulled this off and were able to move in to our new home. Our home is only about 200 yards down the road from FIL / MIL. Mrs. Field was now able to look after our DD and could drop by and visit with her father usually once a day around noon and check in on him. FIL got to see his DD and GD everyday and GD got to see grandpa each day. MIL did not need to come up with money for a visiting nurse. A true WIN / WIN sitch we thought. Mrs. Field was able to help care for (drop in and visit) her father until he passed away in 2000. He was able to stay on the farm until only a few days before he passed.

BIL was very unhappy with us for "stealing" his idea. This was the time when he started to have outbursts and threaten to "beat the crap" out of us and our "brats" too! I realize the he was drunk at the time of this (and other) outburst(s) but it did (and still does) bother both Mrs. Field and I. At this point I hadn't seen him stone cold sober in over 10 years.

For the next few years we put any enmity between us away so we could get along at family events. There were the occasional projects where we could work together to accomplish a major task for MIL. But it was not like old times when we would work on a project together seamlessly. I never forgot about drunken rants to "beat the crap" out of us and our "brats too"! The more beers he drank the harder he became to work with.

Xmas 2001. A new accusation sexual abuse against BIL. But this one is different! It is one of his DD's (15 at this time) accusing him. She is yelling at him, NO MORE, NEVER AGAIN. She swore out a complaint against him and BIL was arrested the next day. He had pleaded not guilty and was released on bail. From what she told us this HAD been going on for years. She had finally had enough!

At Trial BIL plead NO CONTEST to the charge of Incest with Child. A class B/C felony. He stated that he was pleading no contest to spare his children from having to testify (I think he did it to prevent the details from becoming public record. But that is only my opinion). Sentencing was set for August. The maximum penalty was 20 years.

The day before sentencing he came out to the farm. Actually I should say he staggered out. He was more drunk that I had seen him in some time. He was extremely combative and would listen to no one when we told him to get off the (whatever power implement he was trying to drive at the moment). He finally decided on an ATV. A friend of BIL's (whom had driven him out) got out his atv and he started riding in the yard / barn / fields. BIL was determined to chase down our free range turkey and chicken. He only ran over one turkey when he finally left the yard. He then headed for the barnyard and pasture and started chasing our horses and sheep. He kept flipping us the finger whenever he saw MRS. Field and I. He finally tired of this "sport" and took off down the road. When he came back he nursing a very battered ATV. He had wrecked it in one of the ravines on our land. He tried to "fix" it for a little while and then his friend put him in his truck and drove him back to BIL's home. That was the last time I saw my BIL. I am rather hoping that WILL be the last time I see him.

The next day BIL appeared in court and was sentenced to 5 years prison and 15 years of probation. He was immediately taken into custody. Neither I nor my family attended any of his court appearances.

MIL owns the section of the farm with all of the outbuildings, including the barn. All of our livestock (when not out on pasture), feed, supplies, and equipment are in those outbuildings.

From day one after BIL was taken to prison Mrs. Field and I have made it quite plainly known that we will not tolerate BIL's presence around us, our children, or our livestock. For four and a half years now she has made not comment on our boundary. Just last Saturday night she has stated that she will not stop BIL from coming to the farm to visit with her. MIL thinks that we our overreacting and that BIL is not a threat to us. I wish I were as confident as MIL. Our (Mrs. Field and I) children are always going over to visit with Grandma or work with their animals. BIL has made threats to physically harm our children. Mrs. Field and I are vehemently opposed to any visits to the farm by him.

So after all of this: this is my question to you all. Are Mrs. Field and I overreacting to his likely occasional appearance at our farm?

***********************************************************

BIL is due to be released 7/07.

Watch your children.

Please pray for mine.

I don't think you are over reacting. He is after all in jail because of prior behavior.

I have a hard time with your mother's POV. It sounds like what some mothers say on the news when their son's are convicted for murder. "He was such a good boy, I can't believe he did this."

Sometimes emotions get in the way of the facts. It's like blood is thicker than forensic evidence.

Since you don't, and can't control your mother, you have to make a decision about what YOU can do, and what YOU will do.

You may be able to get a restraining order that requires him to stay so far away from you, but if you didn't file charges after that last episode, it may be difficult.

Talk to a lawyer, and the police dept, and find what your options are.

I realize this puts you in a bad position with MOM. You have decisions to make, and they won't be easy.

You pray, and we'll pray, and you do all you can to protect your family.

God be with you.

SS

You are not over reacting at all.
But I think MIL is delusional if she thinks that he will be allowed to just stop by for a visit whenever he wants to.
If you look back a few pages you will see my story. The molester in my case was my former FIL. At least hew as repentant and never denied anything. In fact, the family stood by him, and went to his hearings. He admitted to everything he had done to his granddaughter, and also to his own 2 daughters when they were young. He got into counseling right away – even before it was mandated by the courts. He was grief stricken over the damage he had done to so many people and took the opportunity to apologize to each one of us individually for the damage he had done to the whole family.
But – that couldn’t keep him out of jail. He was in for 3 years or so. And we all assumed that when he was released he would go back to his house to live with his wife. A couple of days before he was released the parole officer called and said that he would NOT be returning home. His house was too close to several minor children, and he was not allowed around ANY children. Not his own grandchildren – or anyone else’s children.
He was not even allowed to talk to them on the phone. He couldn’t go to church because there would be children there. My own boys were teenagers at the time. And he had never molested boys – just young girls. My boys wanted to see their grandpa after he got out of jail. But they were not allowed to. Back then, I was married to my WxH. We lived on the family farm – just like you do. There were 5 house in the area – all relatives. He was not allowed to go to his house – where his wife still lived – because the grand kids could potentially stop by to visit grandma at any time, and the courts did not want him round any of the grandchildren – not the boys, or the girls.

Gradually, over the years, the parole officer has been able to get my former FIL various supervised visits with his grandkids, but it is very complicated. He has to fill out paper work ahead of time listing the whole plan – things like: where will they de, who will be there, will there be any other kids in the area at all, what is the start time, and what is the end time. He ahs to present his plan to his support group, and then get approval from his case worker.
Your BIL will not be allowed to just casually show for Christmas dinner.

Also – about 6 months ago his caseworker called a meeting with the whole family. Even though I am now divorced from my WxH – I attended the meeting with my 16 year old son so that we could find out when/if he would be allowed to see Grandpa again.
I learned A LOT at that meeting.

Things like – this stuff will never go away. Even with all the counseling, the support group, the jail time, and his advanced age (his is 75 now) he is still at a high risk to molest children. Even he admits that he has to take great precautions to make sure this never happens again. The caseworker said, “you may think that he is not a high risk because he is older – but that is not true. As a man gets older he start to lose some of his inhibitions, and at this age he is actually a higher risk.”

I asked her why the boys were kept from Grandpa – since he never molested any of the boys. She said that (this is really awful) part of the treatment plan for any offender is just limiting their exposure to any children. That the more they were exposed to children of any gender he more they could become aroused. That the problem with someone who is capable of offending a child this way – is that they are missing that part of them that says it is “icky” to touch a child. They do not look at a child and think, “that’s icky” so they are better off never looking at a child again. In fact, his instructions are that when he is in public, if a child approaches him, he needs to get out of the area quickly. By limiting his exposure he can keep down the cycle of becoming inappropriately aroused.

I know this is gross. I just wanted to give you some things to think about – perhaps you could make some calls to your local authorities.
I am not sure if my experience is unique – I live in Oregon. But we were all surprised when he got out that he was not just going back home as if nothing was wrong. I suspect your BIL will be in a similar situation. And his alcoholism is no excuse. In my opinion – the alcohol did not cause him to offend his children. His offensive behavior caused him to drink.

In this thread, there are several photos posted. If any of you tried to look at them, you might have found the opportunity rather confusing. Here's why. Within the last month or so, Yahoo photos "improved" itself, and now I have noticed that none of the photos we've posted in the past can be accessed directly any more. Instead you just get sent to to the "Which-album-do-I-choose" site. The picture of 5 of the 6 molestees is easy to find, since it's the album cover. The others are in thndrnltng's album. The photos are titled, so you can easily find the picture of adoption day, and the ones of what a little girl does when she's afraid a man will find her attractive. Beyond that, I can't be more help, since the photos were posted so long ago that our option of editing them has been removed per MB policy. Stupid Yahoo.

t&l

Thank You, SS and WOF.

Our children (all daughters) are 14, 10, & 1.

Last Friday morning I had spoken with the agent who will be BIL's parole officer. I explained my concerns to him and he seemed to understand why I had my concerns. He is going to put additional rules on his probation that he is to have NO contact with Mrs. Field, I, or our daughters. He has the authority to outright ban BIL from the farm but he is going to speak with MIL before he considers doing that.

MIL can drive so she will be able to visit BIL anywhere else. If it would help MIL, I would drive her to visit with her son (and just disappear until she is ready to go). It is BIL's being on the farm, so close to Mrs. Field and I, and our daughters, that we object to.

I am currently pursuing two different stratagies to try to resolve this:

1.) At Mrs.Fields urging we visited with a local real estate agent last night. We are actively exploring the possibility of selling our land and home and relocating.

The problem with this is if he is really serious about doing us physical harm he will eventually find us and we will have already given up what we had been struggling to keep alive for the last 10 years. In essence, moving will not solve the issue if BIL is serious about doing us harm.

Another problem with this is that MIL will likely have to sell the farm if we leave. We really do a lot of things around the house and buildings for her. She is not physically able to do her own snow removal (it is a 300+ foot driveway, It usually takes me 4 to 6 hours to do snow removal after every snow storm) or a number of other household / yard chores.

MIL has already admitted that BIL would not likely be able to "be there" for her like we are.

Another issue is MIL's (she's in her mid 70's) health. 5 to 6 nights a week I visit her on my way home from work and do a medical treatment (treating a head wound that she has difficulty with) for her. I have done this for years now! If I don't do this treatment her head wound will likely reinfect and require hospitalization / nurseing home for proper treatment (MIL's sister, a retired nurse, tought me how to properly treat, drain, & dress this wound).

And lastly, MIL wants the farm to stay in the family. It had been handed down through the family for almost 200 years now.

For these reasons (and others I sure I don't remember at the moment) this is not my preferred solution.


2.) Starting to negotiate with MIL to buy her out. As Pieta mentioned, in the EN forum, if I dont manage to acquire the adjacent parcels then BIL will likely inherit one of them, Thus becoming our neighbor. That is a situation that I am desperatly trying to avoid.


BIL is scheduled to be released from prison in July, 2007, barring any "incidents" that may extend his stay. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />


Thank you all for responding.

FWIW, I do not think you are over-reacting, either. My kids are all so friendly, and would embrace the worst child molester into the family if he so much as said hi. While not wanting them to doubt the forgiveness of God, even for a sinner of that nature, neither do I want them, while they are children, to be so comfortable with any ECM that they would plop down and chat, either.

What would happen if they saw that person later, when their parents or family was not around. "Oh, HIIIIIIIIII!!! I remember you!!!" Then hugs, false sense of intimacy, and all the rest.

(Yes, God can forgive child molesters, and there will be former child molesters in heaven. BUT, just as the alcoholic must not only avoid drinking, but being around those who drink, the ECM must avoid children, pictures, of children, thoughts of children, and so on. A truly repentant ECM, who wants to please God, will do this gladly.)

We have a convicted ECM in the family, which made it even worse. Then it was not only a stranger, who would have been welcomed by those trusting little souls quickly enough, then it was Uncle ECM, who would have been carried off on their shoulders had I allowed it. And, had they met him again away from us, they would have even gone with him against all rules, thinking he is 'family'.

I would firmly support any efforts to keep your girls away from BIL until they are adults, and old enough to make their own decisions.

Gradually buying your MIL out sounds like a really good option. Personally, under the circumstances you outlined, I would only move in the event that he did inherit a piece of property, and kept it rather than selling. As long as you can keep him off your land, and can call the sheriff or his PO if he comes on your land, I think you have done all that can reasonably be expected. (Since in this day and age he could find you with a few clicks of the mouse in 10 minutes or less. He wouldn't even have to be a dedicated stalker. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />)

Good for you for protecting those kids!

As a mother and grandmother, this article just makes me sick:

Mother rents daughter to pedophile

Not only did she "rent" her daughter to him, she even held her down while he molested the child! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> [color:"blue"] [/color]

LC,

I saw that same article and felt the same way you do.

I have difficulty with the concept that ANY mother could allow something like this to happen to their children!

Neak,

Thanks for replying.

I do have some welcome news. BIL's parole officer told me that after looking into this a little he will IN NO WAY allow BIL to live with MIL after BIL's release from prision.

BIL's potental proximity to minor children (not just mine) in a secluded area sets off too many Red Flags for him to allow this.

He is still considering a total ban from the farm in general.

I'm still hoping for the total ban from the farm. I understand that this contrary to my MIL's wishes but I don't want to have to restrict my childrens activities because BIL might decide to "drop by" to visit MIL.

MIL is still convinced that BIL is no threat to us and wants us to "forgive him" and welcome him back into the family.

I have no intention of doing this! I DO NOT intend to put my children at RISK hoping for the POSSIBILITY that he has reformed and repented his ways. I will do everything legally that I can to prevent my children from becoming his next victims!

I do wish the MIL would be more willing to help protect her GD's (we ALL failed BIL's children). I realize the she won't / can't and it IS my responsibility to protect my children. I'm just sorry that a good relationship with MIL may have to be sacrafised to achive this.

<sorry for ranting... but it does feel good to just get it out!>