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Background: I am a 42 husband, married for 20 years, have three great kids, 7, 10, and 13. Wife was high school sweetheart. Had first child when we were 29.
Guess when I look back, it was about 10 years ago when the troubles started. I tried to keep finances in order. All she had to do was keep checkbook filled out correctly so I could properly record expenditures. She would never do right. Always say she thought she was getting better. We were also spending too much. After beating my head against the wall, I now detest doing finances.
Wife is also an over achiever type. This is good in some areas, she is a great mom. But often, her work would interfere. I noticed this before we even had children. So, I have plenty of memories of taking the kids to swim meets, soccer, etc. It seemed that wife was always enthusiastic about signing them up, and then I would get stuck with most of work. In recent years I even asked for a break. For her not to sign them up for swim team. She did anyways.
These last five years or so I have become disillusioned with marriage. I always saw the concept of meeting the needs of the spouse as common sense. I was the one buying books for wife to read. She says she read them. Years ago I even discussed that I was not sure about us growing old together. I tried to explain very clearly what was on my mind. But wife is a very stubborn person. Think she gets that from her dad.
There was also the weight issue. She was 130 at marriage. A high of 204 after third child. Six years later, still at 192. I tired nicely to explain my need for an attractive spouse. Yes, I asked if there was anyway I could help. No, I wasn’t expecting for her to be back at 130. She sat on fence, said I understand your point, but not sure if it is valid.
In the meantime, I found solace in chat rooms. I had an EA or two. They never seemed to last. I finally gave them up for real life. I had a short PA. To be honest, I did not even feel guilty. This was several years ago.
This past summer I finally told wife I wanted to leave. We had some counseling prior to this. I just did not feel any love anymore. The typical………I love you but I am not in love with you. I can relate to the people on the board who find themselves in this situation. I am slower then most, it took me a LONG time to come to this decision that I wanted to leave. Wife asked for more time to change. She has done very well. I will add that I have not been a perfect husband but I happened to meet most of her needs. She even told me this.
Trouble is I feel it is too late. I do not feel that I love her like I should. Ten years of slowly building resentment has taken its toll. I just want out. I want my own life. I am very close to making the final decision. I am upfront with wife and discussed where I am at. She has been very clingy, understandably, but I feel dishonest to say that I love her. Which is what she wants to hear.
She said that she may regret the rest of her life that she did not pay attention to my needs. I felt like I was a good communicator. I did not hold stuff inside. I would buy HIS NEEDS and HER NEEDS book and others and try to discuss these issues years ago. She blames her stubborn personality but agrees she now recalls my past “cries” for help.
I have looked at things from every angle over the years. This website has help offered incite. But what I have learned is that the decision is mine. You can find someone on ever side of the aisle who will tell you they know what is best.
I guess I am writing this as a form of therapy. I know I am very close to calling it quits. Maybe it can be of some help to others. It is so dangerous to ignore your spouses’ needs over the years. It ends many a marriage.
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james, we know what dynamics can bring on an affair, however, we also know that there is no excuse for having an affair. NONE. You can't rationalize her treatment as the cause because we all know better than that. You are 100% responsible for the affair, she is 50% responsible for the state of the marriage. [yes, you get 50% of the blame too]
An affair is never the answer to marital problems, what you have done is far more damaging to the marriage than anything she has done. What she did is damaging, what you are doing threatens to destroy it.
Why are you here? Do you want help saving your marriage? Just know that using these principles on Marriage Builders, it is possible to fall back in love again. We have heard your story over and over again yet we know that it is possible to restore such a marriage.
What are you here for?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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Are you in an affair right now? Does she know about your affairs?
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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James, You claim she was not meeting your needs, but since you were the one who had 2EA's and 1PA, I would say you most certainly weren't meeting her needs. You also state that you told her you want her to lose weight. She starts to lose weight and you say too little too late.
Let's recap shall we?:
Pros:
Highschool sweethearts
20 years of marriage
3 beautiful children
overachiever wife
Cons:
Her:
pesky checkbook
swimming lessons
you wanted a break from child rearing responsibilities and didn't get one
weight issues
You:
2 EA's
1 PA
. . . and now you're not "feeling the luv"
It sounds to me like you have someone on the side that is paying attention to you and you are looking for reasons why your wife is not good enough and why you shouldn't be married anymore. If that's the case, I'm sure you have a little blotter full of "ya done me wrongs" to validate what you are doing.
What have you done to contribute to the demise of the marriage? What have you done to correct these things? Are you currently involved in an affair?
Me/BS 48
Married 16 yrs/together 23; 1 child
Dday 4/05; WH "needed space" and left 5/05
WH Filed D papers 6/05 - Divorce final 12/05
WH moved in with OW 11/05; moved out OW 1/06
12/06 His 3rd and strongest attempt at reconcilliation (I believe OW still in picture)
2/07 Affair over, begging me to take him back - it's too late.
WH has tried numerous times to reconcile.
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James, I would say to you that you can fall in love with your wife again. Just like before. You are married to her, with children, a past(some good some bad like everyone)
Your best chance I would say is with her. Especially if she demonstrates willingness and actively shows the changes. You will start feeling love.
You however also must change. Your EA's and PA's? Does she know about them?
Are you actively pusuing an A now? Honestly?
Remove all the temptations of outside A's and let your wife meet your needs. Let her show you if she can do it or not. Meanwhile, you meet hers.
And do not sabotage her ability to meet your needs. That is a cruelty she does not deserve. My WW did this repeatedly.
.
I walk the recovery path too, ... but I walk alone.
HOW 'BOUT THEM STEELERS!
.
I've finally realized now, that you just have to keep breathing. Tomorrow the sun will rise, and who knows what the tide will bring. Tom Hanks (Castaway, 2000)
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Maybe it can be of some help to others. It is so dangerous to ignore your spouse's needs over the years. It ends many a marriage. James, could you clarify? Whose needs - yours or your wife's? If you leave your marriage, what lessons will you take into a further relationship? To choose a woman who works harder to meet your needs? How do you see your story helping others? It seems, from the way you've written it, to be a warning to wives to a) not put on weight, b) fill out the cheque stubs religiously and c) don't be an over-achiever. What part of your history offers useful insight to betrayed spouses? How do you rate your own marital performance and relationship skills? TA
"Integrity is telling myself the truth. And honesty is telling the truth to other people." - Spencer Johnson
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Hi, James,
You've written a lot of little things that your wife did, that in the context of a healthy relationship, ARE little things. However, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think you offered these up as examples of your W's general attitude towards you.
In short, you've felt disrespected and taken for granted. You have felt unloved. It leaves you feeling desperate and trapped.
I've been there and done that. I made the same mistakes you did.
As others have pointed out, and you no doubt realize, the affairs didn't solve anything. They were temporary relief from your pain. They are also wholly your responsibility. So while you can blame your wife for being a lousy wife, you can't blame her for the things YOU have done. So, you have to avoid that line of thinking.
My wife was like yours. I felt like I did everything in my power to get her to see how desperate I was. It is sad that it took my affair to get her to wake up.
It sounds like your wife has had a similar epiphany. You might be a bit angry that it took you deciding to leave to get her attention. But - here is what you've always wanted - an attentive wife.
Don't let your resentment shoot you in the foot. You have a chance to recover your marriage and make it better if she's willing to work on it with you. Take advantage of it.
Low
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What part of your history offers useful insight to betrayed spouses? There is much here... Choosing to discount the feelings of your spouse because you don't agree with them is a VERY disresepctful and dangerous practice. This is what jame's wife was doing to him. This is the lesson that the BS who is wondering why this "came out of the blue" can take away. My wife was completely clueless that I was unhappy enough to do something desperate...even after I told her repeatedly...as james has. The feelings of your spouse should ALWAYS be taken seriously. Low
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Melodylane:
"james, we know what dynamics can bring on an affair, however, we also know that there is no excuse for having an affair. NONE. You can't rationalize her treatment as the cause because we all know better than that. You are 100% responsible for the affair, she is 50% responsible for the state of the marriage. [yes, you get 50% of the blame too]
An affair is never the answer to marital problems, what you have done is far more damaging to the marriage than anything she has done. What she did is damaging, what you are doing threatens to destroy it.
Why are you here? Do you want help saving your marriage? Just know that using these principles on Marriage Builders, it is possible to fall back in love again. We have heard your story over and over again yet we know that it is possible to restore such a marriage.
What are you here for? "
I never once said having an affair was justified or that it was an answer to my maritial problems.
50% blame for the state of the marriage??? Sorry, don’t buy that. I have clearly discussed my needs till I was blue in the face. Not meaning to sound mean…..but that sounds like psycho babble.
Shattered:
"James, You claim she was not meeting your needs, but since you were the one who had 2EA's and 1PA, I would say you most certainly weren't meeting her needs. You also state that you told her you want her to lose weight. She starts to lose weight and you say too little too late.
Let's recap shall we?:
Pros:
Highschool sweethearts
20 years of marriage
3 beautiful children
overachiever wife
Cons:
Her:
pesky checkbook
swimming lessons
you wanted a break from child rearing responsibilities and didn't get one
weight issues
You:
2 EA's
1 PA
. . . and now you're not "feeling the luv"
It sounds to me like you have someone on the side that is paying attention to you and you are looking for reasons why your wife is not good enough and why you shouldn't be married anymore. If that's the case, I'm sure you have a little blotter full of "ya done me wrongs" to validate what you are doing.
What have you done to contribute to the demise of the marriage? What have you done to correct these things? Are you currently involved in an affair? "
Shattered, Am I speaking a different language???? Ummmmm, yes……….like the basic concepts of this site discusses……..if you do not meet your spouses’ needs they tend to leave, have affairs, and fall out of love.
Your response to me sounds like you do not even understand the basic concept of emotional needs and what they can do to a relationship when they are not met. Trivailize my needs not being met??? Sure, I can do that to anyone on this site.
Togetheralone:
James, could you clarify? Whose needs - yours or your wife's?
If you leave your marriage, what lessons will you take into a further relationship? To choose a woman who works harder to meet your needs?
How do you see your story helping others? It seems, from the way you've written it, to be a warning to wives to a) not put on weight, b) fill out the cheque stubs religiously and c) don't be an over-achiever. What part of your history offers useful insight to betrayed spouses?
How do you rate your own marital performance and relationship skills?
What lessons would I learn? To choose carefully I guess.
How would my story help others? To fill out check stubs religiously!!! Yup, that’s the lesson I was trying to get across. Do you really think that this was the lessons I hoped people would get from my story???? I know your trying to help......but....jeezzzzz But to answer your questions.....Low Orbit got it right.
Low Orbit:
Hi, James,
You've written a lot of little things that your wife did, that in the context of a healthy relationship, ARE little things. However, and correct me if I'm wrong, I think you offered these up as examples of your W's general attitude towards you.
In short, you've felt disrespected and taken for granted. You have felt unloved. It leaves you feeling desperate and trapped.
I've been there and done that. I made the same mistakes you did.
As others have pointed out, and you no doubt realize, the affairs didn't solve anything. They were temporary relief from your pain. They are also wholly your responsibility. So while you can blame your wife for being a lousy wife, you can't blame her for the things YOU have done. So, you have to avoid that line of thinking.
My wife was like yours. I felt like I did everything in my power to get her to see how desperate I was. It is sad that it took my affair to get her to wake up.
It sounds like your wife has had a similar epiphany. You might be a bit angry that it took you deciding to leave to get her attention. But - here is what you've always wanted - an attentive wife.
Don't let your resentment shoot you in the foot. You have a chance to recover your marriage and make it better if she's willing to work on it with you. Take advantage of it.
Low
What part of your history offers useful insight to betrayed spouses?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is much here...
Choosing to discount the feelings of your spouse because you don't agree with them is a VERY disresepctful and dangerous practice. This is what jame's wife was doing to him. This is the lesson that the BS who is wondering why this "came out of the blue" can take away.
My wife was completely clueless that I was unhappy enough to do something desperate...even after I told her repeatedly...as james has.
The feelings of your spouse should ALWAYS be taken seriously.
Low
Low Orbit.......your posts were right on. I always thought this concept of EN's was very common sense. That if you do not meet those needs as a spouse, you are walking on thin ice.
And the real danger is that I feel its too late. My love bank is withdrawn. And although I understand the concept that people think you can get it back........my conclusions are telling me different. But thanks for talking to me like I am an adult.
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james...
the question to as why you are 'here' is a good one..
here at marriage builders....
and one perhaps you should answer....
marriagebuilders is ALL about experiencing your marriage in a new way.....
new ways of communication..
new ways of dealing with conflict and new ways of illiciting change both in ourselves and in our spouses...
see the strike against you is that the one route you chose the multiple EA and then PA....are routes that will never ever ever ever solve the issues.....
but they are routes that insidiously become you...
to carry out such betrayal against a spouse...great great great walls of justification and rationalization are built up....
slowly disconnecting oneself more and more from the spouse and the marriage.....you have done a lot of working in this arena.....
your conclusion is that you can't get it back...but the flip side of that conclusion is that you played and expended great energy in creating the marital seperation in your head...
each act of affair...has an active cheating spouse seeing and tallying each act of the spouse as proof and reasonable reason to have the affair continue....
the divide becomes greater and greater as positive and energy is all placed in to the affair...and only negative energy goes in to spouse...
real new true partnership marriages.....don't have balancing a check book as huge deal breakers....
real true partnership marriages...have two people wanting to complement eachother on many many levels..including the physical aspect...
your wifes overweightness weighs most heavy on her heart and self image....
you communicated you needs...she didn't hear...
why not try a new way to communicate...
loworbit is different in one way than you james...he took a time out...and tried a new and different way....
did the work long before he left....
not all marriages are saved or savable...
sometimes the goal is to be able to walk away knowing deep down you did and tried your best...
and y'up you can walk now.....no one can tell you differently....
but the kinder more decent route is to earn your way out...
50% blame for the state of the marriage??? Sorry, don’t buy that. I have clearly discussed my needs till I was blue in the face. Not meaning to sound mean…..but that sounds like psycho babble.
I personally disagree with that...it is my opinion you are 100% responsible for your state of YOUR marriage...
and your wife is 100% responsible for the state of HER marriage...
spouses that put 100% of their efforts in to their marriages and spouse have this amazing thing happen...
they end up living happily ever after....
ARK^^
Last edited by ark^^; 01/18/06 01:17 PM.
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james,
Well you didn't answer if you are still in an affair or not.If you are,it would explain a lot about the wanting to walk and leave attitude despite there being children involved here.Low Orbit is also a past cheater and is now in a D proceeding.So he does probably speak more from your side of experience.
However,you can run with the idea that not meeting needs pushes a spouse to cheat but it's only a fraction of what goes wrong in marriage.What YOU CHOSE TO DO is your own choice,100%.If things were so bad then you should have been to a counselor +/or divorced.
Many of us betrayed spouses also have long gone without needs being met but did not choose to cheat to get them filled.We believe in marriage and our vows. Cheating is an extremely destructive and selfish way to feel better.
So,if you want help to save your marriage,we can do that but we will not support you in continuing an affair( if you are) nor sympathizing with choosing to handle marital and personal probelms by having sex with some other woman.You will just have to accept that it was WRONG no matter what your wife did or didn't do,even if SHE slept with another man.
So,what will it be? Defense mode or help heal your marriage and family?
BW(me)40
DDay 10/11/03
Divorcing
'The Reformer'- enneagram type 1
~Let Higher Minds Prevail~
---------------
~Life isn't complicated,we make it that way~
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What lessons would I learn? To choose carefully I guess. How would you choose differently? What would you look for? TA
"Integrity is telling myself the truth. And honesty is telling the truth to other people." - Spencer Johnson
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James - I understand that you were hurt by your wife not meeting your needs. However, I feel that I too was in your wife's position. The difference being that my husband and I were only married a few short years. My STBXH would also complain about his needs not being met. I tried very hard to meet his needs, but it was never good enough. I changed everything he asked me to. But after changing, he only had more reasons why he didn't want to stay in the marriage anymore. I finally came to the conclusion that no matter what I did, he would still feel the same. I had needs too, but he felt they were not important like his were. It cut like a knife that he was not willing to give me a chance to make our marriage work. I had resentment too, but I was committed to making our marriage work. It came to a point though that I could not make him want to stay in the marriage if he did not want to. Now I am the one with all of the resentment and don't want somebody like this in my life.
Anyway, what I am trying to say is that it seems you are looking for excuses just like my husband did. He wouldn't even give it a chance. He made up his mind and that was it. If your wife is willing to change and wants to save the marriage, why not give her the opportunity? When my husband finally left for good, it was because he had another woman in his life..
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ArK:
I came to this site originally to gain information. To read about others going throught the same thing. It was a comfort that I was not alone. I also used what I read to help in my decision what to do.
To answer a repeating question. I am not having an affair. The last affair is two years old.
I have been to marriage consuling, initiated by me. I have bought books. I have pleaded, communicated, blah blah blah.......I feel I have tried hard over the years.
I never condoned that the affairs were right. I just said I understand why they happen.
TA:
You asked how would I choose differently? What would I look for?
As I have gotten older I have learned what I like in a woman. You really do not know when your young.
I would look for traits I have grown to admire in a woman....one who keeps fit, has good sense of humor, easy going, and is somewhat of a smartass. Not sure if that is the type answer you were looking for??
LillyGrace:
I am really not looking for excuses. I know I am at the crossroads for a decision. I have told wife where I am at. I previously told me wife I was leaving. She asked for more time to show she can change. I told her that even if she does there is no guarantee I will change mind because I feel soooooo worn out. I just wanted out to control my own life. She as well as others here say it is a choice, that love can be rekindled. I do not think I agree. Sorry to hear your husband left for another. Consider me strange, but I told myself that that is exactly what I do not want to do. I do not want another woman, not now. I do not want one influencing my decision to leave or not.
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I would look for traits I have grown to admire in a woman....one who keeps fit, has good sense of humor, easy going, and is somewhat of a smartass. Not sure if that is the type answer you were looking for?? I'm willing to bet that the women that you were involved with all seemed to have these characteristics...the key word there is SEEMED...when you are wearing "fog goggles" your perception of reality is skewed... What traits would your wife look for...surely you have NOT deluded yourself into believing that you've met all of her needs(she may say that you have as a last ditch effort to keep you from leaving)...if so, what are your wife's EN's(did she tell you or are you guessing?), and how have you gone about meeting them? Examples please... Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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I would look for traits I have grown to admire in a woman....one who keeps fit, has good sense of humor, easy going, and is somewhat of a smartass. Not sure if that is the type answer you were looking for?? If you find someone who fits these criteria, and marry her....and a few years and children down the line you start to feel dissatisfied and ignored, and she has no time to keep fit, and her sense of humour is less in evidence (it happens in most marriages, quite normal).......how would you handle it differently next time? How much would you be depending on the new woman acting differently from your wife? TA
"Integrity is telling myself the truth. And honesty is telling the truth to other people." - Spencer Johnson
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As I have gotten older I have learned what I like in a woman. You really do not know when your young. TOO BAD!!! The contract of marriage does NOT allow you to change your mind...you don't get to trade in your spouse for a new improved model whenever you wish...Just doesn't work that way... Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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That's why I married my "Trophy Wife" the first time!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Let's see..james' wife is overweight, neglectful of financial duties (wouldn't this fall under easy going?), has neglected to meet all his needs and wants the best for her children yet tends to over plan their activities. Now James...he's a liar, a cheat and tired of doing for his children.
I wonder if is true disgust is not with her but with himself. That's where my disgust lies.
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Mr. W !!!LMAO!!! You smokin' hottie you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Mrs. W
FWW ~ 47 ~ MeFBH ~ 50 ~ MrWonderingDD ~ 17 Dday ~ 2005 ~ Recovered
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