Lordslady - I don't even know what to say anymore.. I believe that you choose to live your life with this drama - you do it - then beat yourself up - when you are not doing it - you are beating yourself up going crazy about whether to do it or not to do it - How can you restrain yourself... Blah blah blah.... Then throw in the sin thing and whether you are being a good christian and it is all just a recipe for good drama.... drama that you live with day in and day out by choice I might add.... I am not against premarital sex at all.. I believe just like I believe anything and everything is a personal choice..... and most people make choices that they choose to live with - Sure every once in awhile someone veers off course and makes a mistake - but they get right back on the road again... though you seem to keep on taking a detour - that you so obviously voice that you don't want to... You sound like a child who has been told that they cannot have desert until they finish dinner - yet they keep sneaking desert... And really there is no reason for it... Willpower - give me a break - if you didn't want to do it - Plain and simple - well then you wouldn't - so you might as well just accept that this relationship - involves sex and get over it - and move on ... remove the drama from your life.... Stop - doing it - analyzing it - driving yourself and R - crazy - or you know what you - really are gonna loose him - - and you will have no one to blame but yourself... You are not even really getting to know him any better - because you are stuck on this one subject and the wrongs and rights of it --- move on to something else... figure out if he is the one for you..stop analyzing everything... and see if there are other areas of the relationship that need attention....

Took a break from here yesterday, and will probably take another after today for a few days. My therapist has advised me to limit my time. I saw her last night--a very difficult session--and thought I'd report a little of it, and then respond to the latest posts.

First, therapy: She was not surprised to hear what happened last weekend. She told me (and this is the very hard part, and I told her honestly that I wasn't ready to commit to this yet) that in order for a couple to abstain, they can't spend time alone, other than say at a restaurant together or such. They can't be in a house or apartment alone for any length of time (not even talking overnights here), because she says God gives us a sex drive and to expect that two people can maintain without going there if they're spending time alone is like turning kids loose in a candy store. She says I need to quit lying to myself, and need to decide if I'm willing to change the way I date. She also said that Christians who are determined to abstain also have accountability partners that they report to after each date. It all seems like craziness to me at this point. I'm still digesting it all, and feeling rather nauseaus--sort of like someone's hands are around my throat. I still want to believe that two mature people can see each other and not end up in bed together. But maybe I'm in fantasy land.

The other thing she said is that I need to be around people in my situation--people who are single and abstaining--for the support I need. She said that people who are not practicing the lifestyle I feel I am supposed to live don't truly understand and are not the best people to give me advice. So, how to find someone who is living my lifestyle and dating???

She also asked me if I felt I was ready to date, or if I felt I still had unresolved issues from my marriage or my past. Well, uh, I thought that was HER job to try and help me figure out. I told her that when I started dating, I did feel ready...that it's this sex issue that has complicated everything again. I don't know where to start uncovering possible unresolved issues, and I sort of feel that she's asking me to tell her what they are, so she can help me with them. I don't know what they are, other than a lack of adherence to boundaries. So she's asked me to start reading the "Boundaries" book that I own (not the dating one), and we'll start to discuss it in our next session.

Finally, she asked me if I could stop dating someone if I felt the Holy Spirit saying they weren't the right person. I gave her the most honest answer I could, "I don't know.". It's hard to figure out what the Holy Spirit is saying when at the same time she's telling me I have very black/white distorted thinking and that I always tend to find the worst possible scenario for myself (i.e., that God wants me to suffer by being alone forever, so I feel sometimes like I'm supposed to not see "R" just so that I can punish myself...because I feel for some reason like God wants to punish me or for me to suffer.) So each time something good happens, I want to believe it will last, but part of me feels that I don't deserve it, so I feel like I"m supposed to give up everything that is important in my life, so that I can prove to God that He's all I need. She says that doesn't make sense, because if I look around there are other people in this world who are able to have things they want AND have God. So it's just easier to take it day by day, but today I'm struggling more with the anxiety and negative thinking (and I'm PMS-ing too which isn't helping my mood).

She says she sees a lot of stubbornness and rebellion in me. Yep, I agree, and that scares me because I think God may be going to knock me to the ground to break it out of me.

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Responses...

GDP,


Because I feel bad if I disappoint him. I feel shame, and disappointment. Sort of like disappointing a parent or someone who means a lot to you. Maybe that answer doesn't make sense, but it's just something inside me. I want him to be proud of me, not disappointed with me.


I'll give you my honest answer--it's not that it's a stupid rule. I do see benefits to it. But it's a rule that admittedly I wish didn't exist. It's not a rule that I like in any way, shape, or form and it is a very difficult rule to adhere to in an exclusive relationship. But it's a rule that God made, and he is God and I'm not to question his rules.


I think our relationship was based more on sex than it should have been. And I do want to get to know him on so many different levels. I need guidance with how to do that, apparently, because I'm not doing a good job. Need ideas.

It is difficult, though, even when we are factoring other things into the relationship, because we are struggling with the desires and tip-toeing around all that, and it causes a sort of constant tension. In a marriage, where being sexual is okay, you can do all the other stuff (watch movies, talk, take a walk, go to dinner, visit with family, read together)....but if the sexual urges are present during all that it's not tense because you know you can end the day in each other's arms. There's not this constant "monitoring" of things and knowing that you have to be very careful and not get too close or let your guard down or you can slip over the cliff (as I did over the weekend). It's very difficult because when you're with someone you have chemistry with, those urges are always in the back of your mind and at least for me, keep me constantly on edge. And then add in what my therapist had to say, and it sounds like it's almost impossible to date in the normal sense--that "courtship" is the only way to go. And I've never been a fan of the "courtship" idea.
So I'm having a very stubborn moment.

NBII,


See, that was a difference in interpretation between myself and others that probably came from my early years of marriage, when I was told that our marriage was "dysfunctional", because by that term, the therapist that saw us meant that our marriage needed to end. She told us we should be working toward divorce. So "dysfunctional" has meant "beyond repair" to me ever since, as in "once it's there, it can't be turned around". So I'll try and change my view.



My therapist said almost the same thing last night. That I've very black/white--that there seems to be no in-between. And usually it's that I take the worst possible view. I want to change that. I think I possibly sabotage things for myself because I always assume the worst, and so the worst happens.


I'll try it.

Maw,



My therapist disagrees in a way. In her opinion, the drive we have is strong and whether we think we're going to do it or not, we will end up doing it if we spend time alone. So it would mean completely changing the way I date, according to her. And while it makes sense when you're in your teens and living at home, right now it's still seeming very strange to me to think that at 40 years old I can only go out in groups, or only be with him in a public place, and then have to call someone and report in every night. And if I suggest this to him, he'll hit the wall and tell me he's not a child. I guess I am rebelling right now.

As for other subjects, I do want to get to know him on other levels. We know quite a bit about each other's interests and stuff, but I guess I'm not even sure where to go from here. What do we do? How do we do it? That may sound stupid, but I'm really sort of stuck right now.

LL

PS....

I met a woman from my church for lunch today. She and I haven't visited much and only in groups prior to this. She's fairly new to the church--she married a guy a little older than me who was widowed the same month my ex moved out on me. Point being, I'm trying to build this "support network" and I know one of my pastors' wives suggested to her to call me and get together. Doesn't really matter how it happened--point is, it did finally happen. And I had a really good lunch with her.

She was divorced for a period of years before meeting the guy she's now married to. She's around my age, works outside the home (several woman in my church are married with small children and don't work outside the home--it's more difficult to find things in common with them), doesn't have kids of her own but is step-parenting a teenage boy who is hitting his rebellious age. I felt like we had a lot in common. And I felt comfortable enough with her to also share my struggles of dating and abstinance, etc. She and I have very similar stories (except that hers has now ended with her meeting a really great guy and marrying him). But she admitted that abstaining was very difficult for her, too, and that she also stumbled with it in certain situations. And she also admitted that while she knew it was what God directs us to do, she wasn't any more thrilled with it than I am. (Not saying that's right--just made me feel good to know I'm not alone in struggling.) She said, "And I'll bet your therapist told you you wouldn't die without?" (Yep.) And we both laughed, because while we know that's true, it sure doesn't feel that way sometimes.

She really couldn't offer me much advice...only understanding and support. She did somehow manage to do a one-weekend-a-month thing with the guy she's married to now (because theirs was a L/D relationship, too), and I didn't ask for any details on how they managed it, but she admitted it was very difficult. And I know he has very strong beliefs.

I did share with her that I'm thinking of looking for another church, because there isn't much support for persons like myself at the one we attend. She does agree, and also said that she has thought about also looking because she'd like to get the teen boy in a bigger youth group, but that her husband is very loyal to this one so she hasn't pushed the issue.

But my point here is that I do feel that she was kind of a gift from God today. I need someone who understands, and truly I do think she does. We've agreed that maybe we can do something else sometime--lunch, or a movie or something. I'm not much for parenting advice for her, but I offered to be a listening ear if she ever needed to vent, because I've done (and am doing) the teenage thing.

I'm not good at making friends. I'm hoping I'm off to the right start here.

LL

LL said:

I think you are. It might have taken some "courage" for this lady to call you, too. She was taking a risk because you could have blown her off. It's great that you have found someone locally and I'm sure you'll both benefit from the friendship!

Dear LL:

why in the world do you continue to make your life miserable? You obsess about everything in your life. Why don't you just step back, relax a little and re-consider your approach to living in general? Not everything has to be such a drama.

Let me give you an example: you are dating R, you come up with the idea to have no sf for two years to test the relationship. You go on and on why as a christian this is the right way to do things. You endlessly worry about God's opinion -and then you end up doing what you want to do, which is having SF with R. O.K. you want it, he wants it, you two like to spend time together, you are in a relationship of two adults. Why in the world don't you take it easy and let it develop at its natural pace without adding all this conflict, baggage and drama.

Life has a tendency to just flow along. You can't stop time in its tracks. Life is what you make of it. How you react to the challenges that you are given.

You always seem to see God as a strict punishing father, but the church teaches that he will look out for you and see to it that things turn out right in your life. How about developing some trust in him?

All the best,

Hope things are going well....